The Plight Of The Purebred


Experienced Member
I was sort of hinting at that too...
that the doodles have also fallen prey to over designing...
and some are no longer getting the F1 hybrids
they are a nice cross but improper breeding will subject them to all the other problems other dogs have too. But technically arent all these crosses just mutts anyways ?;)

and yeah ... hank's a designer dog too !


Honored Member
That does make me made that the Border Collies are part of the "Beauty shows now"
When amateur says that
people who want a working dog for a purpose wont stand for that crap.
I think she may be referring to people who have Border Collies to herd there livestock or a Blue tick to hunt, a Labrador to Retrieve and so on. These are the people who do not care if they have the most gorgeous Border collie they care that the dog will do their job(herd) and same for others who have working dogs to do what they were bred for.


Honored Member
To George's Dad, you can call your beloved George anything you want to, imo!!:LOL:

To Amateur,
//"But technically arent all these crosses just mutts anyways ?;)"//

When you say that, it almost sounds like you think being a mutt is somehow inferior in some way?? wha??
Mutts tend to be healthier, and tend to come from larger gene pools, than most inbred purebreds.
SHOW ME A BREED you think is NOT a mix of other breeds :ROFLMAO: when it was originally designed by humans.:LOL: All breeds are some mix of other breeds, and then, selectively mutated to the current form.

//"that the doodles have also fallen prey to over designing..."//

To me, this dog
looks far more like a natural dog, which can probably function well, mate and give birth naturally, breathe well, and even find it's own prey or defend itself if he had to:

and this dog
imo, is "over designed" imo.
pug 1.jpg

to pug owners, i think pugs are cute----especially the original pugs from long ago,
i see the charm there, i do! we are just talking about function and what is, or is not, a "designer" dog.


Honored Member
//"they are a nice cross but improper breeding will subject them to all the other problems other dogs have too. "//

so true, so true,
but your remark, in no way, is specific to doodles.
at all.
your very true words, apply to ALL breeds.

Adrianna & Calvin

Experienced Member
To me, this dog
looks far more like a natural dog, which can probably function well, mate and give birth naturally, breathe well, and even find it's own prey or defend itself if he had to:
View attachment 1351
Not with that coat, he can't. That would be burred- and matted-up in a matter of days. I have seen long haired dogs with mats so tight they can't defecate. A few days ago I was walking Calvin, and came across a little semi-longhaired stray cat with such mats in his armpits that he couldn't stretch out his forelimbs. He had two solid ridges of mats down his hind legs, and everywhere the fur was pulled so tight that his skin was red and puckered, the poor thing. He let me carry him all the way home, in the sweltering heat, and is now cleaned up, neutered, and looking for a new home.

TL, when you mention the KC Spaniel, do you mean the Cavalier or the KC (English Toy)? Are you talking about their heart disease? If you are talking about the CKCS and heart disease, there is nothing to be done about it except for back-crossing. The early-onset mitral valve disease is in every member of the breed, it can't be bred out :( Besides that, the onset is such that dogs are usually bred before they have symptoms. Inherited diseases are a lot harder to quash than congenital, for that reason :unsure: Of course, any attempt to breed something out of a population means that you're further narrowing the gene pool. It'd be nice if there was a single gene contributing to bad hips, for example, and breeders could knock it out through careful breeding without affecting other genes, but no matter what, you're stuck with a narrowing gene pool.

A friend of mine works closely with a certain breed group, a less common breed, and for a research project he gathered DNA samples of this breed. He needed almost 90 samples before he had 12 *genetically distinct* dogs--meaning, the dogs were so closely related that they did not count as individuals, genetically speaking. Horrifying, right???


Honored Member
well, true, like many breeds, most versions of doodle coats do require grooming.
good point.
but otherwise, a natural shaped and functional dog. Many dogs have coats, that if in the wild, or grossly uncared for, will mat.
My rescue border collie arrived to me, with fur so densely matted, it had to be cut off, all of it.
but i rarely hear BCs referred to as "designer dogs"....

Some short haired breeds sunburn, and are even afflicted with blackheads and other skin disorders.

I think both of the KCCavaliers and the KCspaniels are often super unhealthy dogs. The syringomylia is especially cruel, cuz of how humans like a round-headed dog.
wow, did you see the documentary at all? did you see the award winning, "Best In Show" KCC in the film we are discussing, "Pedigree Dogs Exposed"???

both of those breeds have MULTIPLE serious health issues which are now rampant and heartbreaking.


Honored Member
Papers are pointless, your dog is a dog congratulations, can it fly too?

There was a part in the movie where it showed what a bulldogs skull originally looks like and how it looks like today. It was shocking!!

And it seemed like the people in the movie were making excuses to why certain breeds are what they are today thinking that they are better dogs but are actually making them worse.


Well-Known Member
personally, I prefer the bulldog head of the 1800's. I think the huge underbite is ugly!!! I saw a bulldog the other day that looked incredible!!! i wanted to steal him and take him home! But, I could tell he was very well cared for and loved his family!!! It was so much fun to watch a bulldog with sooo much energy and zest!!!


Honored Member
LOVE THAT LINK BEKAH, i'm stealing that one!
Yes, when one looks back at what some extremists have done to so many breeds, it's just heartbreaking...:cry:
and imo, the AKC is NOT doing much at all to promote dog HEALTH and instead, focuses on looks, angles, sizes, etc, regardless of how those looks, angles, sizes, etc, impact the dog's function and health...


Honored Member
//"It was so much fun to watch a bulldog with sooo much energy and zest!!!"//

George'sDad, that is awesome you saw a bulldog that can actually breathe well even if it ran around for more than a few minutes at a time? AWESOME!!


Honored Member
Gosh how I wish breeders would go back to breeding for what the dog was made for(herding hunting, and do on) and not breed for looks. We want healthy functional dogs, not these poor babies that can hardly breathe because people think that it is cute that their face is smuched in. It's such a shame that the AKC don't care about dogs anymore just the looks.


Honored Member
Sure for barking and tugging,
even pekingnese can do that!;)
how FAR was this bulldog able to run, how long without stopping could the dog run,
and still breathe well??

do you mean running around a yard? like a few yards here,
and then in a few minutes, a few more yards over there of running?

at any rate, it IS always fun to see a dog having FUN!!:D


Well-Known Member
Not at all, we were at a state park where there is a lake and the dog was running around on the sand and playing for extended periods (10 min at a time or so) then would get water, take a short rest and go back to playing hard!!! I have never seen a bulldog play like that!!! the temp had to be like 80-85 that day too!!!


Honored Member
Curious there is a dog Tillman known for skateboarding do ya'll think that he is a good example of what a bulldogs should be like? here's a video of him, you can click on the username under the video to go to his channel.


Honored Member
//"do ya'll think that he is a good example of what a bulldogs should be like?"//

Well, what *i* think a bulldog should be like?
or what the AKC thinks a bulldog should be like?
cuz the AKC has helped us create a dog that can not tolerate heat at all, can not usually breathe well if they run very far, some can't even breathe well if they are just lying still,
and often have undersized tracheas, hip and heart problems, and usually can't give birth without surgery, drown fairly easily, and sometimes die giving birth, or if left outdoors on a hot day,
and have tails and facial wrinkles which can infect without a human caring for it, are prone to "self mutilation" by chewing their own skin, get pimples easily,
to name only a FEW of the problems rampant in the current gene pool and design of a bulldog...
Over 70% of bulldogs have hip dysplasia...:( but humans wanted a dog with an extremely BIG head and extremely narrow hips,

and this breed could die if it tried to deliver it's own babies:eek: .

Yet, a bulldog with allllllll those problems, could win a "Best In Show" award...

Skateboarding might help the dog get air, too, some owners of bulldogs put fans on the dog's face to help the dog breathe.