Trick Challenge: Limp

Discussion in 'Training Challenges' started by running_dog, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. srdogtrainer Experienced Member

    I guess it depends who you ask and what you are specifically working on. I think you can shape successfully in a variety of ways. Some people are very specific on what you can and can't do for clicker training, but you don't even necessarily have to use clicker training for shaping. I don't have a lot of rules when I train my dog, I will do whatever works, within reason of course. I don't like limiting myself and I love trying different types of methods and coming up with clever ways to show my dog what I want. However, in some training sessions I will specifically work on clicker training and sit down with just a container of treats and a clicker and just work on my timing and letting River try to figure things out on his own.
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  2. brody_smom Experienced Member

    For Brody, I think he has come to understand what's expected when I just sit down with a bowl of treats. It took a while, but I believe he knows it means we are going to do something new. So far, for each new behavior I've shaped, I have had a specific prop that then becomes the "cue" for the following sessions. He knows what I am looking for, or at least, where we left off. At some point, it may get tricky to come up with a new prop, but, for now, it seems to help a lot. With the limp, it may have helped if I had started with the towel I use to wipe his feet, but I didn't think of it at the time. I ended up having to use a little wooden step as a barrier to keep him from putting his foot on my lap. It has turned into the cue for our training sessions, so I don't even have to use a word.
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  3. Ripleygirl Experienced Member

    I have to admit that since I got back I've been doing 11 hour shifts :mad: at work and have not had a chance to work much on the limp yet so more time would be great for me and I might just manage to get something posted...! :oops: Loving seeing your guys progress though.
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  4. southerngirl Honored Member

    Cheers!!! Missy took a step! Yes, it's only one, but she did it without my finger touching her, now she has one step the others will come easily.:D
  5. brody_smom Experienced Member

    Good work, Danielle (and Missy)! Any tips for the rest of us still struggling along holding our dog's foot in the air with one finger?
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  6. southerngirl Honored Member

    I would have her lift her paw, I just touched where I usually hold for a sec and I just encourage her alot, but made sure not to use to excitable of a voice so that she would become unfocused. If she started to put her paw down I would touch the bottom(ankle) and she would lift it back up.
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  7. kassidybc Experienced Member

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  8. brody_smom Experienced Member

    We are really struggling. I'm finding that in order to get Brody to take a step at all, I have to hold his foot up, but he really pushes down on my hand when he hops. He is still so focused on the treats, I can't seem to find anything low value enough that he isn't in a great hurry to turn his head to eat. We haven't been able to get any sustained work in one place. I have to keep repositioning him. If I try waiting for a longer hold before clicking, he stops trying and we have to take a break. I really thought we were close, but I think we may have to take a break from this one.
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  9. MaryK Honored Member

    Fantastic! Congratulations Missy and you of course:D(y) You're so right, now she has that first unaided step she'll keep building on that, as did Leaf once she took her first step she 'got it' and now will do quite a few steps without dropping her paw. We're now working on duration;)

    So happy for you both, it's a grand feeling isn't it when all your hard work pays off and Missy limps unaided!:D
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  10. MaryK Honored Member

    I did much the same with Leaf, good tip Daniella, except I just lightly touched under the elbow and Leaf would immediately lift her paw up again. It's a matter of repetition, not giving up isn't it.:D
  11. MaryK Honored Member

    Don't give up, just when you think he's never going to get it he will. Perseverance is the name of the game, along with patience of course.

    Hold the treat in front of his nose, that way he won't keep turning his head. Leaf's totally food orientated and will mug me for a treat so I'm always careful where I hold the treat, i.e. for limp a forward moving motion I hold it in front of her nose so she is literally 'following her nose' to get the treat. Also I keep the treat held in a tightly closed hand so she cannot paw to get it - she knows now no treat can be got at by mugging Mom!
  12. brody_smom Experienced Member

    That's exactly what I've been doing, but he is so locked onto the treat, I don't think he even realizes what he's doing with his foot. Maybe it's because we've been doing a lot more shaping than luring lately, he is kind of distracted by the constant presence of the food so close to his face. I've tried just using an empty hand that smells like treats, and I've tried just getting him to target my hand or a target stick. He still turns his head so quickly after the click. Maybe I'll lose the clicker and just use "yes". Someone else mentioned the clicker being better for higher energy behaviors.
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  13. MaryK Honored Member

    O.K. Question - How many supported limps is Brody doing? i.e. three before you click or more.

    What I would do is get him to do a few supported limps (as many as he can manage) BEFORE clicking -then if he drops his paw after the click that's fine, he's done his limp albeit supported, and if he turns his head it's no biggy.

    Not sure which type of Clicker you are using but if it's the box type, the sound is very loud when it's close to a dog's head. This may also distract Brody because it's hurting/uncomfortable. If that is the case, then deaden the sound with Blue Tack. If you're using the IClick it shouldn't make any difference, as it's a soft click and doesn't upset/hurt the dog when clicked close to the head/ears.

    Also AFTER you've clicked don't give him the treat immediately, make him wait a second or two. He may mug you (Leaf still does mug me at times if she gets very excited) but he'll quickly learn "Hey I gotta be patience for that treat, Mom's not going to give it to me immediately".

    Plus, I know when you want to praise him a lot, but keep it low key, he may be a dog who is distracted by excited praise. Just a quiet Good Boy, You're A Clever Man but not the full on PARTEEE praise may also help.

    I recall you saying you cannot find a treat low enough. LOL I have the same thing here, Leaf is sooooooooooooo food orientated I tried, just as an experiment (don't recommend it as a full on treat) dry, stale bread and she STILL went for it as if she's never had a square meal or a treat before. So don't worry if you cannot find a lower value treat, some dogs FOOD ANY FOOD is a treat:rolleyes::)

    All dogs respond differently, it's a matter of experimenting and finding what works best with your dog. And it can vary from trick to trick too. LOL they like to keep us on our toes! Just keep on keeping on, then he'll knock you flat (not literally I hope) by limping away as if he's being doing it all his life.

    My boy Zeus can take a while, or rather could he's retired from tricking now, to learn a trick. He's the slow, methodical type of dog but once he's got that trick he NEVER needs a refresher course as he's got an elephantine memory. Whereas at times the quick learners need a refresher course. Brody may be a slower learner, number of reasons, but it doesn't mean he won't get it, just needs time.:)
  14. MissyBC Experienced Member

    I just had a go at the "limp" trick with Missy this afternoon, before taking her out to play frisbee at the park. :) She's starting to get the idea that I want her to hold her paw up without my support! :) Clever girl! Took a couple days off of this trick 'cause I was BUSY this week!
  15. MaryK Honored Member

    Way to go Missy:D(y) She's a smart cookie that's for sure!(y)

    I think sometimes a day or two off is good for them, after all we like a break at times. Didn't do her any harm though, clever and beautiful girly that she is!:)

    I just had a short burst with Leaf, after they had their breakfast (no doesn't affect her at all she'll work any time) and LOL I think she's attempting a new twist on limp. She got a bit excited and did this funny leap complete with a limp, all totally unsupported.:D:rolleyes: O.K. she's a Kelpie and they love to leap but in limp???????:oops::rolleyes: Or maybe it was the thought of more food so soon after breakfast - she is very food orientated - that got her leaping for food!
  16. running_dog Honored Member

    I'm so impressed with all these reports that are coming in now of dogs that have finally got the idea of limp, you and your dogs are all totally amazing :cool:. Hopefully Brody's moment will soon come :).

    Zac is definitely withdrawing from the challenge now. I'm going to try to train hind leg limp another time but I don't think front leg limp is a good idea for him. This week he really hurt his "limping" paw (typical!). Even when he was in quite severe pain he would not limp by choice he either stood still or walked but very very lightly. I think it's maybe because his legs are so spindly and to limp he'd have to land with a lot of force on one paw whereas to walk he can land very lightly on whichever paw he chooses. Basically I've decided that if he would sooner endure pain like that rather than limp I don't think it is a trick I should be teaching him. I've seen him limp quite willingly on his back paw so I will try to teach him hind leg limp and post a video when he has 4 good legs to stand on again.

    Sorry to you all for pulling out like this.

    Looking forward to seeing all your videos when you get a chance to post them. With all of these breakthroughs do you still want another week or would you prefer to finish on Monday?
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  17. southerngirl Honored Member

    I hope that Zac's paw get's better soon. And no problem pulling out doing whatever is best for Zac is the more important.
  18. running_dog Honored Member

    Thanks Danielle
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  19. brody_smom Experienced Member

    So sorry for poor Zac. He's really had a rough time lately.

    Monday's fine for me. If we don't have a break-through over the weekend, we'll be ready to move on.
  20. running_dog Honored Member

    Calling all limp trick challengers... All being well I'll be posting a new Challenge on Monday so you need to try to get something videoed filmed and submitted on Monday at the latest :)

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