Discussion in 'Training Challenges' started by running_dog, Mar 21, 2014.
That's amazing that you got that far using free shaping!
River is doing so well He's just gorgeous, that plumed, wagging tail always reminds me so much of Rakins, different colored tail but the same plume and wag
I was also using a higher value treat but have lowered with good results. Will post our progress in a separate post.
Heckling ignored Excellent work Zac, you'll be limping with ease very soon!
Yes please!!!!!!!!!!!!! Extra time is needed, plus I have a male down with a 'male cold' - no chance of videoing, seriously considering putting an undertaker on speed dial
So excited!!!!!!!!! We have a break thru!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yesterday Leaf took her first tentative 'limp step' WITHOUT any support from me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Think we were excited, we both bounded around like crazy, whilst Zeus just laid there, Mr. Super Cool Dude, waiting for his treat Leaf got a JACKPOT treat cuz well, first limp step without support deserves a super jackpot!
Seriously, she's not quite at the stage where I could plonk a $50.00 bill down and say"My dog can limp" can yours but she's taken that first baby limp step unaided! I had that feeling she knew what I wanted, just had to pluck up her courage and also of course, get the muscle memory happening, before taking that one giant step for dog!
I did find lowering the treat value helped. Leaf's extremely food orientated, any food will do, but offer a higher value treat and she tends to go over the top mugging me for the treat rather than focusing on actually performing the trick!
Sorry no video, male is 'dying' at present
Sure would appreciate another week for this challenge and not just cuz Leaf is almost limping, more I dare not expect a 'dying' man to video a dog trick
LOL good point the boys are already half way there with this trick!
Bragging rights??? We did our trick training this afternoon and I'm over the moon!!!!!! FOUR yes FOUR steps in limp without any support!!!!!!!!!! As Evie B said, once they get that first step the rest comes easily. Leaf's now does successive limps, albeit not always four in a row, but hey she's got the trick in three weeks, just needs now to work on extending her limp!
I did find working in a more confined space inside seemed to help as outside she went off at such a gallop with me assisting I feel maybe she didn't build up the memory muscles.
Anyway, did ask the 'dying' male to video but the reply was negative, he wasn't even impressed over Leaf's ability to limp!!!!!!!! Glad I've got D.T.A. to brag on about my clever little lady!
Bragging rights????? We did our trick training this afternoon and Leaf did FOUR yes FOUR unassisted limps in a row without dropping her paw!!!!!!!!!!!! She's not always doing four in a row without dropping her paw but we are getting more than one without dropping her paw. And if she does drop her paw she's picking it up again and continuing to limp!!!
Absolutely thrilled, she got the trick in three weeks!!!!!!!
Asked the 'dying' male to video, reply was a negative grunt, he's not even impressed with Leaf's achievement
So glad I can 'brag' on D.T.A.
That's so great! What did you do to get that first step? How did you get her to stop using you for support?
As I felt her using me less and less for support I first moved my finger back from her paw (she had a tendency to reach out with her paw for my hand at first) down to first the middle of her leg, then once she was moving well with my finger supporting her in the middle of her leg I moved it further back to her elbow. I just held it very lightly, barely touching her, under her elbow, I stress though once I knew she had the muscle memory and was ready to take that first unaided step. I could feel 'knew' she was almost there, didn't try the elbow until I was sure of that.
We did that a few times. Then as she went to step off I quickly removed my finger, but still kept it ready to support if needed. Also I used verbal 'cue' and encouragement - like 'you can do it'. At first when she started to drop her paw, a very light touch under the elbow and a cue, kept her paw up. Then the break through, the first unaided step, paw up and one limp step! I am still using a lure (she's food orientated) but only sometimes, i.e. first time a lure, next time without a lure even though she can now do four limps in a row. She's a dog who needs her 'rewards' until she has a trick off so well she will voluntarily 'offer' me the trick
Plus prior to actually working with her I quietly sat down with her and 'visualized' her doing an unaided limp. I did that a couple of times and that's when she really started to 'get it'. I just sent her a 'visualization picture' of what I wanted. I've used visualization before and found it does work.
We also did a lot of repetitions, taking a break to do other tricks which she loves and knows, then going back to limp. Leaf likes to train for at least half an hour at a stretch, which does help, she's got a great work ethic. But with a hard trick we work on that for a while, then I let her choose a trick she wants to do usually bow or a jumping trick or say your prayers, then back to her new trick.
That works for Leaf, may not work for all dogs though.
And of course, when she did her first unaided step yesterday BIG JACKPOT and lots of dancing, leaping on her part, around the room in celebration of her 'getting it' Same again today, she thrives on praise and JACKPOTS.
Oh and I stopped using high value treats, as I said, she's very food orientated and did tend to mug me for a high value treat, so we dropped back to 'ordinary' treats. Again, this works with Leaf, may not work for all dogs.
Hope this helps and I know Chloe will soon be limping away like a pro!
Oops just noticed my post repeated. Reason Kitten on Keyboard. I thought my first post was 'lost' when one of my cats, who's never 'got it' not to dance on the keyboard, managed to send everything haywire - sorry about that - didn't mean to double post.
With Brody, I did switch to lower value treats, but also have been holding them in a tightly closed fist. I am doing this more to keep his head looking straight forward rather than looking back at his "injured" paw, as he tends to do. The other day, I was getting a little bored with our lack of progress, so I pushed my barrier stool to the side and just sat down to do some free shaping. Can you guess what the first thing he offered was? You got it! A beautifully lifted hind leg! Today, I think we will start there, and see if he can eventually offer me a limp!
Not really all free shaping I'm afraid .
We did the paw lift with free shaping.
Then I got stuck with duration (he just kept going to pawing things) so eventually I offered a treat but if he put his paw down I moved the treat away. That way he could figure out really easily that the treat was for holding up his paw.
Then I tried standing beside Zac and cuing "limp" (which currently is a paw lift) so when he understood that position I started taking steps between cuing limp, ("limp", step, "limp", step, "limp"...) and that is where we are up to.
So I guess that is partly luring? I don't really know. And it is probably cheating to include a cue because it becomes a verbal hint .
An interesting thing I have noticed while training this trick is that if I hit a block and Zac doesn't seem to be moving on but I start to proof the trick so far in a new environment (somewhere out on our walk) then when we come back to the original training location Zac tends to offer more.
I'm not sure what it was exactly! But it wasn't the paw support and fading method.
Love seeing River at work ,
You fit an awful lot into 2 and half minutes of training! I guess that is because you have got River so focussed. Something else for me to work on .
...glad you enjoy him! I never really thought of it like that before, but I guess we do do a lot in a short period of time. River is very food motivated, so it is easy for him to stay focused in a variety of environments.
If you have previously shaped a behavior, then added a cue, is it cheating to start with the cued behavior and then increase the criteria? I know there aren't actual "rules" to this whole thing, but in terms of shaping a behavior, it just seems more efficient to do it this way, rather than let the dog guess around before eventually hitting on something they've already worked hard to learn.
Yes, another week would be helpful!
Copyright © 2013 Dog Trick Academy. All Rights Reserved.