Rudeness In Dogs (why Your Da Dog, May Not Actually Be Da)


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PLus, the dog owners would probably get bored of all that training, and begin to avoid us, so they wont' have to stand there while i train Buddy to stop pulling to see his friends.:ROFLMAO:
Seeing as V. only has 1 friend...I don't care if she pulls to see him...we only see him when we actually go to meet I don't blame her for being excited and he's @ 20 pounds heavier than her and he doesn't mind if she launches herself at him and jumps on his head. :cool:

and this, so NOT like Buddy:
//She also tends to react more to the lone dog that comes out of nowhere as opposed to there being allot of dogs around.//

This is what I think is going on with V. She tends to be reactive in general so it isn't just a lone dog she will bark at. One day a branch fell and was crossing the sidewalk in a weird way and she spazed. So I let her charge it and she did her whole approach cautiously , retreat, approach...and then she realized it was a branch and I swear (and maybe I tend to anthromorphize allot) but her BF was with us and his owner felt the same was like she was embarrassed. Like :Oh yeah, branch. I knew that. Duh". :LOL:

Anyways I read something @ reactivity, gonna pharaphrase but something about dogs getting set off by the presence of something in a place where it was unexpected. Sort of along the same lines as to why reactive dogs react to comings and goings; changes in the composition of the environment. I really think that is part of why single, dogs, "coming out of nowhere" are a challenge for her...and that also happens much more so in the winter.

Now the places where I walk V. are extremely dog friendly; they even have strategically placed bins with free poop bags around. So in the nice weather tons of dogs; the good thing (aside from exposure experience) is generally 99% of the time the dogs are leashed. And I think it's almost a case where she gets too flooded to react. Like "Oh look a dog! And another dog. Wait 3 more dogs over there! Oh crap what was that? a dog almost in my face! OMG They're everywhere!!!!!" And then I think her little brain fries in her head from stimulation overload. Maybe she isn't using better skills in the summer...maybe she jsuts gets overwhelmed and shuts down???? :eek:O_o:confused:



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But let's say a dog is totally mellow; just lying there...V. would rush it, lick it. poke it and if the dog just continued to lie there she would then turn away like "WTH???"//

but that was how V was 2 years ago, right, and you might not be entirely sure if that is what V would do nowadays to an unknown dog, or not, right?
but, maybe you are right, maybe that IS just exactly what V would do.
I could be wrong; but I really see her reacting more to the energy than the dog.

Calm, goofy, comfortable dogs I've really never seen her react to...from a distance. Usually it's the more confident dog, the dog pulling towards her, looking at her ( a big no-no for V.), a dog putting out less than calm "doh de oh doh" energy.

It's intersting that Buddy has a breed he dislikes; although V. seems to react more often to terriers...but they also tend to be more scrappy types of dogs. However her 3 great loves have been big dopey male pit bull types.


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//[quote="tigerlily46514, post: 40526, member: 6797]
I try try try to get Buddy to a point, where i can have him looking AT the other dog, and getting treats for looking right at his enemy, cuz i think doing that helps him shift inner attitude, is calmly looking right at the other dog, hopefully making new associations in his lil doggie brain, that dogs = treats, and learning how to be calm when he looks at dogs.
this is my HOPE anyway. And it seems to work.

but, like you know, that (getting dog to calmly look AT the enemy) can not always be done, nope. The dog can be too darn close, for one thing, or our dog can already be outa his mind from previous reaction earlier, or, you are in the middle of traffic, etc etc etc.

sometimes the best we can do, is just prevent a reaction.//

That is what I am aiming for; got it from Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleahsed:

It can work if I see the other dog first and I am spot on with my timing.

I must be doing something wrong; because we are going on 4 years and I still have to see the dog first and be spot on with my timing; and V. hasn't learned to relax very much at all.

Even when she is quiet and not reacting outwardly; she is still not relaxed.


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ROFL at your Veronica's love session with her auntie Mari!! Yes, that does look a lot like Buddy's greeting for favorite pal of mine, too!!:ROFLMAO:
TOO ADORABLE! and WOW, is Veronica even MORE gorgeous in a video, than even her lovely photos!
what a gorgeous color she is! I don't see that color too often on a dog, it's really really pretty! And i just love her facial marking!
btw, about a week or so back, we had a joking thread, which somehow derailed off onto lipstick on dogs, (was joking) and at some angles, it almost looks like your little girl there is wearing lipstick!! TOO CUTE!! Like a "glam dog" !!
THAT DOG IS TOO UTTERLY CUTE, Jazzy, and now, i can fully understand your complaints that everyone but everyone wants to snuggle with her!! lol!!


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//I do think, like any other behavior there can be cases of it being learned behavior or lack of socialization; or a genetic predisposition aggravated by the environment; but I most definitely think it can also be primarily genetic - and then yes, as you said it can be worked with...but you will never have a "normal" dog; imo. As with Buddy, I think V.'s issues are genetic in nature.//

I so agree! I think, that dogs who have 'normal' brains, CAN be rehabbed back to "normal" brained behaviors, probably almost always, if it is a "learned" thing. And most abused/neglected dogs, don't even become aggressive anyway, and stand there loving everyone and every dog,
and if abused dogs do display aggression, sometimes it is only mild "easy-to-see through" displays, and rehab pretty readily. Like Michael Vick's dogs, 95% of those dogs, (all pitbulls, i think but i'm not sure) all turned out to be lovebugs, despite all they'd been through and the terrible lives they'd led from birth on---they loved everyone and every dog, or did so soon enough.

I've got some links to the brain anomalies found in every da dog tested,
and yet another set of slightly different brain anomalies found in every shy dog tested,
and never once found in any normal dog tested, not once.
I found that very compelling.

The da dogs, and the shy dogs, didn't have exact same anomalies, as each other.
It's two different disorders. Shy dogs can be prone to "fear aggression" towards humans, but, usually get on fine with other dogs, or can be brought to get on with other dogs, if they don't already.

and da dogs tend to love all humans, or, can be brought to get on with humans. (my dog once hated all humans, but, he "learned" that "anti-human" thing, imo, so he was able to UNlearn it, as well, is how i see it)
I know of some other da dogs who once also reacted to humans, who were also completely cured of any "anti-human" behaviors, as well, and now act like your Veronica does, or like my Buddy does---------just LOVE humans.

When i tell my dogless pals, that Buddy is a da dog, they all exclaim, "Oh, no, not Buddy, he's too sweet!" as if, da dogs can't be sweet, lovable dogs.:ROFLMAO: I dont' think most ppl understand da dogs very well, really. I know i didn't, til i owned one.


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//Other people in classes and trainers have noticed this as well. I have always joked (not that I would ever do this) but that one time I would like to just drop the leash and see what she would do. I really half expect that she would stop, turn and look at me; and if she could talk say something like, "WTH?? I told you to"! Of course we'll never know, because I'm not a gambler and the possibility of chaos, bloodshed and a lawsuit does not particularly appeal to me.//

Well, if it was Buddy, who i think sounds much worse than your Veronica, in several little ways, Buddy sounds worse than Veronica is. Veronica, probably through your very careful managment of her, seems to be on a different level than Buddy is, Buddy sounds worse. Almost as if like Buddy HAS crossed lines and deteriorated down, to a worse level than V is at.
I see what you mean, V is not quite like Buddy, i see the differences.

i do think Veronica IS different than Buddy's behavior is,
but some things are the same.
but if it was Buddy, i'd bet, if that situation, if i dropped his leash, in similar situations where Buddy sees a dog and he is offleash, Buddy does NOT rush the other dog,
and off-leash Buddy then resorts back to dog-signalling, posturing, more signalling, ever escalating. It's not pretty, though, and
no doubt, at some point, he would attack, i'm pretty certain he would.

I have no doubt the 1st year i had Buddy, he would attack, but, now, his attack reflex is getting a lil bit more muted.
I can spot changes in that. His behavior is different nowadays, than it was years ago...he's still a da dog, but, he's better now. Years of "Let's Go" and occasionally, Buddy begins to turn his OWN self away from enemy dog, even before i've gotten the words out. this stuns me, and i wish it'd happen EVERY time he reacts, but, even now and then, i get a thrill when Buddy begins the inevitable "Let's Go" turning away if he loses it.
I also do "Let's Go" when i can imagine he will react, even before he has, too. (like GSDs, or chihuahuas...........see, Buddy also reacts to almost all chihuahuas, min-pins, all skinny short haired dogs, but, Buddy's reactions to minpins is NOT like his GSD reaction.)
I can often set Buddy up to NOT react for chihuahuas, though, if i have enough notice.

But, like you, i also sometimes sense, a hesitation in Buddy of sorts,
every once in while. Like this: (MAYBE IT'S MORE LIKE A transient BRAIN FREEZE? lol)
One time, at a stop light, right outside Buddy's car window, were 4 german shepherds all standing around on leash....just a few feet outside Buddy's car window.(which of course, is now shut)
Now, Buddy ALWAYS barks at dogs out of car windows, (we're working on it)
and ALWAYS reacts to ALL GSDs.
and Buddy especially reacts to GROUPs of dogs.

yet, there he was, staring at those 4 GSDs, all playing around, only a few feet away, Buddy had nothing to say, at all.
not a peep.
THEN, when light turned green, AS I DROVE AWAY, -----THEN------Buddy began yelling at those dogs, "Oh wow, if my mom wasn't driving away, wow, would i ever get you!":rolleyes: and so on, barking his head off, all "tough guy" as he was driven AWAY from those scarey dogs.
yet, he said nothing, while he was right next to them.

I have a few similar stories, where Buddy did NOT react, to a scene i expected him too. Lol, there was a rottie down the street (we have lots of rotties in our hood) that Buddy used to freak out about, all yelling at the rottie. So one day, Buddy was getting all ready to scream at the rottie, and WA-LA, lo and behold, there are now TWO rotties there, that family had gotten a new 2nd rottie.
well, Mr Buddy had nothing to say about it, and walked right by as if he did not see the rotties.

and never yelled at that yard, ever again. Two rotties seemed too much maybe? no idea, i can only guess.

go figure, i have no idea what these kind of scenes are about. Is it possible, despite Buddy's probable brain anomaly, that he still has enough functioning brain cells to tell him, "Ey, two rotties, you are so outnumbered, just be quiet"
"Ey, no way you can win against 4 GSDs, just be cool til you are safely being driven AWAY"

No idea how that all works in his brain. no clue.


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I'm just replying as i read your replies, Jazzy,
does Veronica ever end her barkfest at other dogs, with a lil whine?

see, if Buddy does that,
if Buddy inserts a lil whine,
for *my* dog, that is a signal to me, that Buddy could be brought to "like" that dog.

When Buddy sees his friends, out the window, or coming down the street, Buddy whines.
might not be true for any dog but Buddy, but a whine is a great great great sign from *my* dog, that we could make progress with THAT dog.

i love to hear Buddy give a lil whine if he sees another dog. Even if Buddy is barking his head off, IF HE INSERTS a lil whine, too, there's hope.


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That's why for V. I don't think it starts as aggressive intent. I think it starts as overstimulation and then she gets too worked up and that energy escalates into aggression//

I hear you there, and maybe, for Veronica, that is true.
but Buddy can, begin with a most obvious aggressive display. buddy can be happily playing, having great time, not stressed,
not upset, not excited,
and whoopsthereitis, the appearance of an unknown dog coming along,
and Bam, Buddy begins his most definitely aggressive display. It is not excitement, not for Buddy, nope, it is a very sinister, not-friendly series of moves, and it will get increasingly uglier the more time he has to "get into it".
Even someone who did not know Buddy at all, could look at buddy and say "this dog is acting aggressive and has an ugly plan in his mind, i bet. I would anticipate this dog will fight that other dog coming along."
it's real obvious, to any onlooker.

(that is, of course, if i do nothing, i meant). For Buddy, it's not excitement, it's something else entirely.
I've seen my dog excited, probably every day!:ROFLMAO: i know his "excited" look, and what Buddy does when he sees another dog is not his excited look.:ROFLMAO:

I have never thought my dog can see that well, (vet says he is fine, tho)
and i've seen Buddy begin his ugly display, when he sees his own friends :eek: coming along the street, especially Duncan, who looks exactly like 20 other dogs in our neighborhood from far away....and once Buddy CAN recognize, "Oh, it is Duncan! My good pal!" then Buddy whines along the way, and then greets Duncan with a happy pulling to Duncan to have a lovefest.

But Buddy almost automatically goes into "I hate dogs" instantly when he sees a dog, even his own friends.:rolleyes:
it's weird.

Buddy's good pal, a mini-schnauzer, who has a most unique and distinct appearance, and is only mini-schnauzer in our whole hood, Buddy recognizes cooper immediately, even a block away,(plus, cooper is almost invariably barking around,:ROFLMAO: too, cooper is a nonstop barker, hard to miss noticing him!!:ROFLMAO: )
and Buddy does display happiness, and some mild excitement, not a ton, just mild excitement,
to get over to love on cooper.


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//I think they mean that the dog is hardwired to have the genetic predisposition and then all it takes is one experience for everything to click and then there's no going back.//

ohhhhh, well, if that is what those ppl meant by that remark, 95% of Michael Vick's pitbulls, would have to disagree. Those dogs had incredibly horrible lives, some from birth on,
yet, 95% of them turned out to be lovebugs, some right away, some needed a lil rehab, within a fairly short period of time, too= lovebugs.
My guess there is, those dogs were "normal" brained pitbulls all along, and with a lil rehab, those dogs went back into their default "normal" brained behavior, as they were wired to do.

I think a da dog, of any breed,
has to have a genetic disorder to have persistent, ongoing, inappropriate aggression, which is unamenable to rehab.
I think normal brained dogs, of any breed,
who have suffered abuse, can probably almost always be rehabbed back, what a dog learns, he can unlearn.
(i've even changed some of Buddy's known cues to have other names, what a dog learns, he can unlearn). My dog was once ppl-aggressive ("learned" imo)
and now loves all humans.

I don't think we humans can 'create' a persistently da dog,
nor can we 100% "cure" one either.


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Do you mean he walks by dogs behind fences calmly somewhat at a distance? V. will do OK if we are across the street from the fenced dog. I have to really coach her; but she can keep it together. But walking by a fence (on the sidewalk - same side as the fence) by a dog who is running the fence and barking...that is when V. completely loses it and does really pull like she sort of means it.//

Yeah, it is the same for Buddy,
if fence is too close,
or if dog rushes him suddenly and freaks Buddy out,
buddy would bark for a dog behind a fence.

These fences are probably about 10 feet away that Buddy goes by and doesn't react, and some are farther that that.
There is a dog we call "cujo" who Buddy always barks at, even though that fence is probably at least 50 feet away, we are across the street,
and i agree with Buddy, that particular dog is not right. that dog makes Buddy look sane.:ROFLMAO:
but, we do what we can to get past cujo's house, but that's a hard one for Buddy. Lots of dogs bark at cujo, not just Buddy.

Four dogs live directly on other side of Buddy's very own fence. The dogs could touch noses through the fence if they wanted to.
Never a peep outa Buddy. Three big dogs, and one of them is a chihuahua, so it's especially marvelous, that Buddy has decided, (with some help) that those 4 dogs right on his fence are fine. whew.

lol, i once got that neighbor to bring over her GR to play with Buddy, since buddy especially liked the GR, and they'd "met" a few times, face to face, and did fine, and had sniffed each other and seen every day,
but when she brought her dog over to my yard--- the GR spent whole time, just staring through the fence at his own yard.:ROFLMAO: absolutley baffled what was going on.

seemed all confused to be on THIS side of the fence, and wanted to go home. darn. Buddy looked very happy to have a guest, but, the GR just couldn't figure out why he was over HERE, instead of his own yard.:ROFLMAO:


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yeah, i think a fence on the sidewalk would be too much for Buddy too, and i also hope to win Megabucks, i see what you mean now.


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Buddy also barks for all company at his door,
but has two barks, and i can tell, by Buddy's bark, if it is someone he KNOWS, vs a stranger, for real, i can tell from upstairs, if this is a stranger or previous visitor that Buddy knows.

buddy does not bark for passing humans. ever. Unless they come to the door, or get real close to the house, then he announces them.
We have lots of humans and dogs going by, all day long.

lol, one guy, who had both a stroller, and dog, who passed our home every day,
buddy always barked for that guy's dog. Because Buddy especially disliked that dog, Buddy always searched/alerted for all stroller walkers for dogs, very carefully, before deciding stroller-pusher was okay.

Not sure what happened, but, now the guy only pushes his stroller by, no dog anymore,
and it took Buddy about a week to stop barking at that 1 guy. buddy would bark one bark, and look again, and be like "wha? where's the dog?"

but, sooner or later, Buddy realized, the dog is gone, it's just the stroller and the guy, and quit barking at that guy.


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YOu know, re: door manners, you can make a lot of progress, even without a human. I found out, my dog goes nutz, even if HE CAN SEE ME knocking on the door, even if Buddy can WATCH ME be the one to ring my own doorbell,
buddy STILL goes all barky. I don't mind him going barky for doorbells and doorknocks, nope,
but, i do want him to SIT for the opening of the door, and he has to keep his butt on the floor, or,
the door shuts again.
wasn't hard to teach. something to do, if you want to. It's so cute watching the dog figure it out, "OHhhhh, if i stand up, she closes the door again....ohhhh." you can see it in the dog's face, as it dawns on them.


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Loved the video! Nice work! Yeah, that looked more like excitement to me, too, really, near as i could tell, not aggression. I see what you mean now.
Anytime my dog is already excited, he's wayyyyyyyy more likely to bark or react. My dog's behavior in Petsmart,O_o where he is overwhelmed with smells and sights and sounds,
is not like his behavior walking down the street.

Your Veronica did wayyyyyyy better than my Buddy would have done in that situation. Very good, i thought!!! Yes, i do think, especially when you did most excellent work near the other dogs, Buddy would have lost his complete entire mind, that many dogs so close.
I'd have to take Buddy there eveyr day,
and begin with only one dog across the room,
and slowly add more dogs,
and slowly bring Buddy closer to line of dogs,
and slowly advance along to get anywhere near what V is doing there!!

btw, off topic, but, you can also teach the position "left side" or sometimes called 'get in', just like a formal cue or a trick,
so dog gets into exactly position you want her to, if she goes too far back or too far fwd on a stop, you can just say "leftside" or whatever word you want.
KUDOS ON THE EITHER SIDE HEELWORK TOO!! Buddy can only do it on my left side.

But looks like V pretty much has a default position of being in right spot anyway. Very nice work!!


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yeah, when i took buddy to classes, we had to stay on other side of room, like the dunces, too! lol, know what you mean.
I'd so love to try it again, but, can't afford it right now. PLus, the so-called "positive only" trainer once took my dog, to show me how to "control" Buddy, and then snapped his neck around, yanked him all around, scolded him, intimidating him with everything she had, really, and scared my sweet lil Buddy half outa his lil mind, Buddy looked absolutely terrified of her, sheer panic written all over him, hyperventilating, drooling,(he never drools) tons of nonstop liplicks, wild eyes with whites showing all around, just sheer terror in his eyes, stiff tense body,
so we left, and that was end of that.

I apologized all the way home, that i'd allowed that to happen to Buddy, hope he knew what i said. Buddy was worse for some time afterwards, and i felt two inches tall for letting my dog down like that. that trainer is considered an "expert" on dog-aggression in my area, but, i think she's watched one too many episodes of dog whisperer or something.


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//And I think it's almost a case where she gets too flooded to react. //

ooh, maybe that is what happens to Buddy when he saw 4 closeby GSDs at the stoplight,
or two rotties where he expected to see only one,
maybe that is it, he is too "flooded" to react? sounds good to me, anyway,:LOL: and if you could see Buddy in those moments, you'd probably agree, "flooded" is a good word to put on it!!:ROFLMAO:

yeah, reading your words, i realize, i should have said, "groups of dogs a little bit far away" set Buddy off,
but, although he doesn't much experience it, maybe groups of dogs closer to him do shut him up!!?


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oh yeah, see, i've been watching Buddy for years, and i have noticed,
ALL german shepherds = 100% guarantee reaction, and it's an ugly reaction, oh real scarey stuff.
No matter what i do, Buddy WILL react to all gsdm unless we are reeeeeeally really far away, nah, even far away, it's still a bit of a challenge.
Rotties, he sees so many rotties, that he is not so bad about rotties as he is for GSD.

A woman down the street, who had gsd and a black lab, told me, after her gsd had died, she was always amazed how Buddy reacted to her gsd. She said her gsd was world's sweetest friendliest dog, and every dog always liked her gsd,
and she told me her black lab is "obnoxious" and most dogs hate her black lab, yet, Buddy was so 500% focused on her gsd, Buddy never even noticed her black lab, not once, in all those years.
No idea why Buddy hates all GSDs, no matter what i do or try, is no luck. I've got Buddy to "Like" two (2) gsds in over 3 years, i don't even try anymore.

ALL skinny, short haired dogs, like minpins, chihuahuas, any dog like that, 100% guaranteed reaction, (if i do nothing)
and it looks weird, not at all like his gsd reaction, is whole other deal, and it's very very little posturing prior, he's ready to attack, and it looks fearless, sort of like prey, sort of like how he does bunnies.
buddy once took off after a chihuahua, at full speed, immediately, from his door, dragging his leash behind him.(this is NOT what he does for GSDs at all)
Took me a while to find him again, he was coming home when i found him, and then, i put him indoors and went looking to find a slaughtered chihuahua,
but i found the chihuahua, who was just fine, :eek: which seemed almost a miracle. No idea what happened there. no idea. did the chihuahua outrun Buddy? did they meet, and chihuahua bellied up? what happened? no idea.
I did take the chihuahua home, and told his owner he might want to not let his dog wander around the hood off leash like that cuz some dogs will chase him and maybe hurt him.

See, Buddy grew up in a cage, in a dark barn, 24/7, and the barn was infested with rats.
(apologies to any owners of small skinny dogs if anyone is reading this besides me and Jazzy) but, i came up with idea, that maybe, maybe, living with only rats(which are small, skinny-legged, short-haired creatures)
so Buddy spent his entire life amongst only rats to entertain himself, (plus 100 other border collies in cages all around him)maybe maybe, Buddy thinks of small, skinny, short=haired dogs as a creature he can mess with, chase, eat, bite, chase, deja vu/flashback or whatever. Obviously, this is just a wild guess, and i could be off by miles, cuz Buddy wont' say why that body shape of dog sends him into "deranged predator" mode most of the time.
I can however,
get Buddy to calmly walk by that body type of dog, IF i have enough notice.
you know, if we can see them coming, or see them in their yard as we come along, i can prep Buddy with calming signals to get him to just walk by them like a 'normal' dog.

Yeah, Buddy def has his "types" he is more likely to hate, or more likely to accept!!!!
My whole family has noticed this.

Buddy usually hates "shy" or timid dogs, or any dog who submits to him, and loathes hyper, spazzy dogs, but can be brought to eventually like a hyper dog, but, it takes a while.
Black labs were hit or miss, till Buddy had yelling match with a black lab,and now, Buddy seems to think all black labs coming along, are that trouble maker black lab.

but Buddy LOVES rude, in-your-face dogs, any dog who goes nose-to-nose with Buddy is good chance Buddy will like them. Instantly.
buddy totally respects all alpha dogs, the true alpha dogs, buddy is so good.
buddy often likes/ignores geezer dogs, but, not always. (he hates geezer gsds)
buddy has liked all of the very few bloodhounds he's ever met, on sight, no problems.
Buddy is less reactive to extremely obese dogs, but, not always.

and Buddy almost invariably likes small white fluffy dogs, (?) no idea why that is, even if they are barky or hyper, if they are small white fluffy dogs, is good chance buddy might like them.

Buddy likes most young female dogs, but not all. (hates young female gsds)
Buddy tends to accept GRs fairly easily, too, sometimes instantly.
and seems freaked out by big poodles, esp poodles with hairdos, Buddy stares in awe, like what IS that....
Buddy has seen one Irish Wolfhound, and buddy stopped in his tracks, and just stared. so did i.
this is also what he does when he sees another border collie, too, but eventually he will begin reacting to the other BC, but he stares at it in weirrrd way first.

and Buddy dislikes almost all puppies immediately, and seems disgusted that puppies are allowed to live. but, he doesn't attack puppies, but, will bark loudly at the puppy, and then walk away in disgust, like, "get off my lawn, you kids."

but, that said, still, most unknown dogs Buddy is likely to react to, if i do nothing. some of this, is how hard i have to work to get Buddy past these various types of dogs...


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Oh i will read that link, so THAT's what "LAT" is!! Ha, i've been using it, sort of, but, did not know that is what it is called. rofl.

I can't recall now, how i got idea to try that. Prior to either finding out abuot it, or discovering it, i wasted an entire year,
a whole year,
with nothing but "look at me" which does not much at all to help a dog shift their inner attitude.

Oh, we got to be masters at "look at me", and we prevented 100s of reactions,
but, a year later,
i realized, my dog is not much different than he was a year ago. His inner attitude is just as bad as it was a year ago.
then i began to slowly begin to have Buddy sitting sideways to enemy dog,
and then,
over time,
i'd began to have buddy facing more to other dog,
and over time,
advancing along to having buddy looking right at enemy dog, from however far away he had to be,
and then,
overtime, shortening the distance.

for passing dogs on walks, it's sort of the same thing, sort of, i start with buddy sideways to other dog, and slowly rotate him to be more watching the other dog go by. I want buddy to experience looking right at that dog, and getting treats, and massages, etc.
seems to work, imo.

i've also found, for whatever reason, getting up into ppl's yards, for some passing dogs, instantly helps buddy relax, just a few feet up into their lawn, makes a difference to buddy's mind. not sure why.
from a few extra steps into someone else's lawn, buddy is more likely to successfully calmly watch the enemy dog go by. he gets massages, calm praise, and nonstop treats for that. the more we do this, the easier it gets, but yeah, we probably look stupid.:LOL:
at first, i expected ppl to open up their doors, and yell "Ey lady, get off my lawn" but, so far, it's never happened. lol.
Plus, we are only on their lawn for a few moments, til dog passes by.

You are so right, it's easier to read about, than do, wow, that is so true,
but, i think, the more practice our dogs get, at learning this skill, the easier it gets for us, and for them. I have a lot of dogs in our hood to practice on, too,for example, dogs behind fences in their own yards, dogs in their front yards, dogs on leashes going by my house, dogs we pass on walks.

with my dog, i had to begin this at 400 or 500 feet away, (years ago) and shorten it down, over time. I guess, that has always left me with "get far enough back so your dog CAN succeed" type of idea, but, like we both know,
that is not always possible. but, sometimes, we can seek out and work in set ups where we know we CAN control how close our dog is to the enemy dog. Like outside of dog parks, outside of petsmart, outside of a fenced in dog, from whatever distance our unique dog needs to be calm while he looks at that enemy dog, and reward that.
like a mental exercise.

It seems like, every time we succeed at having a non-upsetting, calm interaction, (even if it is only passing a dog) we seem to be turning it down a notch, and we can sort of build on that success, one good thing leads to another almost, just like one bad moment can lead to another almost).

sure, sure, some days, it's two steps forward, one step back.

generally, where i live, with this setup, we can see the dog ahead of time, and make choice, to avoid that dog,
or i can try to get Buddy calm to pass it. But lol, corners can be fun, right? ha.

I also have option C, where i can get to distance where we can succeed, and next day, or later that day, try to knock another foot off of our distance.
The more we practice, the easier it gets. It seems to be an ongoing thing, and like recall, if i don't keep it up regularly, it gets sloppy, and harder to do.

LIke spring time, for example!! lol. Jazzy, i wonder if da dogs in warm climates make better ongoing, consistent forward-progress than da dogs who get snow?


Honored Member
what a gorgeous color she is! I don't see that color too often on a dog, it's really really pretty! And i just love her facial marking!

THAT DOG IS TOO UTTERLY CUTE, Jazzy, and now, i can fully understand your complaints that everyone but everyone wants to snuggle with her!! lol!!
Well thank you so much; although I should say Veronica thanks you so much...because I can't take any credit for her cuteness. :LOL:

Her color is considered Champagne; which I did not realize at the time is one of those new fangled designer colors in pit bulls/AmStaffs; like the blue in AmStaffs; that one really should avoid. It's a dilute color which carries the higher likelihood of skin problems and allergies.

And yes, Veronica has allergies; gets an allergy shot every 20 days and takes zyrtec and benadryl during her "season:' along w/ year round weekly baths with special shampoo and the occasional topical. It's always something...


Honored Member
I've got some links to the brain anomalies found in every da dog tested,
and yet another set of slightly different brain anomalies found in every shy dog tested,
and never once found in any normal dog tested, not once.
I found that very compelling.

If you can find them; I'd love to check them out. DA is obviously a topic I have allot of interest in as well!

The da dogs, and the shy dogs, didn't have exact same anomalies, as each other.
It's two different disorders. Shy dogs can be prone to "fear aggression" towards humans, but, usually get on fine with other dogs, or can be brought to get on with other dogs, if they don't already.

I do wonder if there is any difference between a DA pit bull and a DA dog of another breed; only because of their history of being bred specifically for DA; sort of like breeding a BC to instinctively herd. I would imagine it would be less significant the farther away you get from the roots of breeding for DA; and terriers in general tend to be "scrappier" dogs as a rule; so maybe it doesn't so much have to do with ancestory. However it is said that you can take any American Pit bull terrier (Veronica is registered in the UKC as an American Pit Bull Terrier; but to pit bull fanciers, she's an AmStaff; and she does have about 80% AmStaff in her...I just can't register her with the AKC as an AmStaff - it gets very convoluted). But at any rate; when I registered her I got her 14 generation pedigree and just for the sake of research I continued to research her ancestors - wasn't interested in MY family tree...:LOL:...but I traced her back about 20 generations to a couple of well known "fighting dogs". So it is very far back in her genetics; but I have wondered if her ancestry hasn't been at least part of why she has difficulty with other dogs. Then sometimes, as I said; I think with her it's primarily reactiveness which goes along with her general reactivity and fear issues and those aren't pit bull traits; those are Veronica traits...and maybe that's connected, as you said; to some brain anomalies that just exist for no particular reason other than that they exist. I can make myself crazy trying to figure out the exact root of the issue...and of course, I'll never 100% know. And as we said; dogs of all breeds can be DA; and I think it's more common than we think. I used to be embarrassed telling people V. wasn't good with other dogs (like somehow it was a moral failing on both our parts :rolleyes:) ; and more often than not they have a story about a dog they have at home that's DA.