D O G Does Not Spell Horse

Discussion in 'Dog Behavior Problems' started by jacobite, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. MaryK Honored Member

    Actually it doesn't hurt at times to have a 'day off' training. We all like a break ,well most do one of my boys does the other Ra Kismet thinks we should train all day every day - forget work etc.:D

    You'll probably find Charlie will surprise you and work harder on Saturday. Keep going, he'll get there:D
    Ripleygirl likes this.

  2. jacobite Well-Known Member

    Got full eye contact, got Charlie on my left side waiting, took one step and he looked to where he was going and ignored me. Haeing trouble with getting him t o maintain eye contact when taking a step
    MaryK likes this.
  3. MaryK Honored Member

    Is he still pulling when he doesn't give you eye contact? If he's not, then don't worry, he's got the message. If he is, then just keep on keeping on - try saying something like "look at me" using his name first of course. Just keep walking at the same time keep click/treat ALL the time. I go through a ton of treats on walks. Don't just give him one treat, give him HEAPS and PRAISE him talk to him all the time! I always talk to my dogs when I'm walking them, they like to know you're there for them.

    He may not maintain eye contact all the time, there's a big world out there to look, explore, smell and if he's not pulling that's fine.
    jackienmutts and Dogster like this.
  4. jacobite Well-Known Member

    It was only one step so he wasn't pulling for one step.
    MaryK likes this.
  5. jackienmutts Honored Member

    Sounds good to me - if he wasn't pulling, then isn't that what you're looking for? (y) If that's not what your goal is, then what is it? Mary's absolutely right, there's a huge world out there to be sniffed, looked at, experienced on their walks. Are you wanting him to just look at you while he's walking? Cuz if so, that's really boring (to him). He's got to be able to experience his world - just not drag you along with him. I see you asking for 30 seconds of eye contact etc, while onleash, trying for more ... May I ask, what is your goal?
    MaryK and Dogster like this.
  6. jacobite Well-Known Member

    To be able to walk to a shop without wanting to strangle Charlie at some point. ;)
    MaryK likes this.
  7. jackienmutts Honored Member

    I understand you don't want him to pull onleash - but I guess my question was more leaning toward the eye contact. I was referring toward your mention of building it up to 30 seconds, then your frustration at altho not pulling, also him not giving you eye contact for a few steps. What is your goal as far as your walking and eye contact? For instanct, personally, I don't care if my dogs give me eye contact or walk beside me when we we're out on a walk - they sniff at whatever they want to, they walk in front of me, beside me, behind me, wherever their noses take them, it's their walk and I want them to enjoy it and experience the world - but I walk two GSs, so as long as they don't pull, we're good (cuz they could take me down in a heartbeat).

    And I know I knew at the beginning (sev pages back) but can't remember now ... are you using a front clip harness? Many dogs don't like head harnesses like Gentle Leaders, but front-clip harnesses can solve so many issues and make walks with even the strongest dogs so much easier. I'll look back, just don't remember right now as I'm typing...
    MaryK and Dogster like this.
  8. MaryK Honored Member

    Jackie is absolutely right! Ra Kismet is now getting over his bad trauma and with eye contact, well sometimes he'll trot alongside me looking up with his big beautiful brown eyes, other times there's an interesting smell and he goes into his 'Sherlock Holmes" routine, head down following the smell all concentration, never even glances at me:D Then there's someone putting at the trash bins, again he likes to check them out. It's all exciting to a dog, though maybe not to us:) As Jackie says, it's HIS walk for his pleasure and yours too of course.I adore walking my boy. but I don't expect him to give me a lot of eye contact, after all again as Jackie said, that would be so boring for him.

    But one thing, he does give me eye contact, naturally and happily, as if to say "hey Mom I haven't forgotten about you" and that's just as it should be. One happy dog, checking out the world around him but not totally forgetting his Mom:D

    My boy loves the Halti but not all dogs do. I agree with Jackie, the clip front harnesses are grand.

    30 seconds is a long time for a dog to give eye contact out on a walk, so long as he doesn't pull, don't worry. I get long eye contact when we're doing 'formal' work, like heel work and tricks, but his walk is for him to enjoy the world, not a regimental route march. So if he does, for safety, have to 'come close heel' he does so without any angst or resentment. Plus of course he has to do 'kerb drill' again a safety thing. But other than that, he toddles along, mostly either by my side or just in front of me on a loose lead and the only 'pull' if I can call it that, is when some smell wafts around him. Even then he's now very gentle about taking me over to that smell.

    Charlie's doing well, keep on with him, he'll be the perfect dog to walk soon but it doesn't always happen over night.
    Dogster likes this.
  9. jacobite Well-Known Member

    That's my fault. I got the impression from the adice I was being gien that he was supposed to maintain eye contact. I thought that was what I was working for. You see, I am still working with getting him to take one step with me in the house. And then a couple more steps and then a couple more steps then OK, maybe I hae it wrong.
    MaryK likes this.
  10. MaryK Honored Member

    Now you've 'got it':D You're learning so don't worry, it's all coming good! We all make mistakes, that's why this forum is here, to help us all to learn.
    Dogster likes this.
  11. jacobite Well-Known Member

    on our normal walk, was coming home when a dog Charlie was playing with refused to go to his owner, so I took the dog and Charlie and we ended up on the paement (sidewalk) near the house, so I put Charlie on the lead and took his home. No eye contact, but he walked beautifully to the house. Now if he would do that when we go out of the house.
    MaryK likes this.
  12. MaryK Honored Member

    Well done both of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Charlie behaved like a perfect gentleman(y)

    He'll do the same when you go out of the house. Just takes more training as he's excited, all the world is there for him to explore. Treat and treat and keep treating for quite a while when you first leave the house. I'd go through a MASS of treats when first leaving but now Ra Kismet is fine, doesn't pull at all, though he STILL gets treats for being a very good boy. And I have a very difficult 'gate' to get through - a roller door - which means he has to sit, wait for me to open the darned thing, then sit again while I close/lock it.

    You just cannot treat enough when training. Use the clicker if possible but do treat heaps!!!!

    Start the moment you have the lead in your hand. Settle Charlie (sit), click/treat (or treat if you cannot manage both) and treat again once his leads clipped. Then just keep treating as you leave the house, sit at the door wait etc. and don't stop for quite a way. You'll find Charlie will eventually, he's been pulling for a long time, find it's much more interesting and rewarding to not pull.

    Once he's settled, then let him explore his Universe:) And click/treat just for being a very good boy(y):) ALWAYS reward good behavior, never forget that, Charlie deserves a treat for being good without you asking for the behavior. Praise him but as he's a bit excitable do it in a quiet but loving voice and talk to Charlie when he's out walking, especially at the beginning. Say things like 'aren't you a good boy Charlie" but keep your voice calm and quiet, not YEAH CHARLIE YEAH type of praise.
  13. jacobite Well-Known Member

    Got past one lamp post and got a treat, then park, park, park, I must get to the park. He is fixated on getting to that park. Took him on the lead because my son had a job interiew and I couldn't get anyone else to shut the back door.
    MaryK likes this.
  14. MaryK Honored Member

    Keep click/treating ALL the time, don't stop if he's still pulling to get to the park. I use TONS of treats in a difficult situation - which is different from yours but the principal is still the same - TREAT, TREAT, TREAT don't stop. Just keep walking and treating him. Even hold the treats down at your side and just feed them to him as you're walking along. I have a feeling you just treat when Charlie does something good. You should be treating all the time to encourage him to think you're just the greatest person to walk alongside coz he get's all those lovely yummy treats. Keep some HIGH REWARD treats for when he really does something grand or let him JACKPOT (dive into your treat bag and eat them all) when he does something really good.

    Bit puzzled over why you took Charlie on the lead because no-one else to shut the back door?
  15. jacobite Well-Known Member

    OK< I thought I was only supposed to treat Charlie when his behaiour was good. Will try that next. The thing about the back door is that normally Charlie lays down in the liing room and waits while I check that there are no unfriendly dogs, cars, motorbikes, etc, (small dirt path out back door) and then I call Charlie to me. If my son is working, then the door would stay open, because I would need to watch Charlie as we went out for 40 minutes. Too long to leae the door.
    MaryK likes this.
  16. MaryK Honored Member

    Understand with the back door - no way would I leave mine open/unlocked for 40 seconds if no-one was home!

    Yes, you treat ALL the time. The reason being is that Charlie, or any dog, will associate the treat with good behavior and be willing to work/train with you. It makes them WANT to do the right thing, as opposed to being 'made' to do the right thing - "hey if I walk alongside Mom and don't pull I get treats and that's real cool'.

    Don't phase out the treats quickly either. Keep treating and treating until it's so ingrained into Charlie that he will just do it and even them treat just because you love him and he's doing the right thing.

    Even though Ra Kismet will walk without pulling now (after his big trauma) I STILL treat him along with way, not just when there's another dog around who may cause him to react. And when he's super good, like not playing up at all with another dog then I let him nose dive into the treat bag and clean out the lot. JACKPOT!!!!!!!!! Always have some treats in reserve though;) . He now toddles along, sniffs at all the smells and then re-sets himself right close to me and I haven't asked for close heel on walks either. We do do heel work in training but outside it's his walk and he's allowed to walk on a loose lead and also he knows what loose lead means as opposed to close heel. I only bring him in to close heel, which he will do easily, when it's not safe for him to be on a totally loose lead - i.e crossing the exit/entry areas of the gas station on the corner of my street. And crossing at the lights , people passing on a narrow side walk etc.
    Dogster likes this.

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