D O G Does Not Spell Horse

Discussion in 'Dog Behavior Problems' started by jacobite, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. jacobite Well-Known Member

    Trouble is Charlie will not make eye contact unless I stop and make him when he pulls. He is fixated on getting to where he wants to be or on some smell that another dog has left. He doesn't want to notice me unless he is forced to. But he is making 15 seconds of eye contact in the house.

  2. MaryK Honored Member

    O.K. so Charlie is making eye contact in the house - REWARD CLICK/TREAT FOR THAT:)

    He'll start to associate the click/treat/eye contact!

    Then work on the lead with Charlie in your own garden, get him used to click/treat means EYE CONTACT with Mom. Less distractions there and if he's distracted in the garden, then work in the house with him, even less distraction. Use loose lead here.

    Try to work with him when you're alone together, even less distractions.

    Also, when I first started in the street with Ra Kismet (we worked in the garden first) I would call him (he's always on the lead, that's the law here) say "Hey Ra Kismet/Rakins) didn't always work the first, or even the second time or ......many times after the first few times I tried BUT EVENTUALLY he 'got it'. When he responded, even for a nano-second, click/treat SEVERAL TIMES OVER not just ONE treat but masses of treats! And now he will easily make eye contact with me without being asked. Ra Kismet isn't as old as Charlie and has only had his problem for a short time but it still takes lots of practice/work and TREATS masses of treats, be VERY LIBERAL WITH TREATS before they 'get it' in the street. Everything 'distracted' Ra Kismet, I always say he's a 'nosey parker" as he wants to know what EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY IS DOING! As you say, there are all those interesting things, smells, people opening doors, people walking down the road, doing their gardening, the list is endless and ALL AT FIRST much more interesting than making 'eye contact' with Mom.

    Do you do any heel work with Charlie? If not, start doing that with him IN YOUR OWN HOUSE/GARDEN. He'll definitely have to keep close to you and start making eye contact.

    I used a 'lure' food held in my hand and kept my hand down close to my side, when I first started doing 'heel work' with Ra Kismet. He kept his nose firmly on my hand, I kept a firm grip on the treat, FOR A PACE then I allowed him to have the treat - click/treat after ONE pace. Then we progressed to TWO paces and so on until now he'll do heel work and gets his reward after quite a stretch:D And he has to maintain eye contact because he doesn't know if I'm going to 'change directions' - take it very S - L - O - W - L - Y at first with change of direction and don't expect too much,

    Charlie will 'get it' but you're going to have to use lots of patience and lots of treats with that clicker. You are using a clicker I hope, if not, believe me they're the cheapest and most effective training tool on this planet. Worth more than their weight in gold!
    Pawbla, jackienmutts and Dogster like this.
  3. jacobite Well-Known Member

    Thanks, up to 20 seconds now and working our way up to 30 seconds. Will try that. Appreciate the adice. Heelwork with Charlie doesn't work too well as he doesn't like walking by my side. But I could try that next. the ideos are fantastic and I wish I could do that with him. Will try
  4. MaryK Honored Member

    Grand!:D(y) With the heel work, use the 'lure' to get Charlie interested in what you have in your hand, use his absolutely TOP FAVORITE TREAT and then, as I said, hold it tight in your hand down at your side (use whichever side Charlie favors to walk on if appropriate) and ask Charlie to walk, just ONE PACE at first, once he's snuffling at your hand to get that tasty treat. He may never win prizes for heel work, that's not important really but what you're aiming for here is not total perfection in heel work but helping Charlie to get used to making 'eye contact' when he's out with you.

    Doesn't matter if Charlie bounces around, or as Ra Kismet did when we first started, ran around and sat in front of me, it's the EYE CONTACT you're after capturing, getting Charlie to focus on YOU. So if Charlie runs out a bit, or doesn't do the heel work absolutely right, don't worry, just reward his effort and the eye contact. He will I'm sure, make at least a seconds eye contact and that's what you're aiming for, not total perfection in heel work, but another 'tool' to help Charlie zone in on the 'eye contact' 'hey eye contact=treats this is grand':D
    Dogster likes this.
  5. Pawtential Unleashed Experienced Member

    Did you follow the guide I gave for building eye contact while moving? You're right - it isn't about pull-stop-look...

    Eye contact while walking is totally different than standing still.

    Did you do the backwards walking?
    Have you tried the targeting?
    Have you started teaching Pivot?
    Are you acknowledging anytime he is in the right place - no matter how he got there?
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  6. jacobite Well-Known Member

    because of the amount of treats he gets, I only teach one trick at a time. At the moment working on 30 seconds eye contact with lead inside. I got 80 % so will try him outside tomorrow if it isn't raining. Up here, that is what usually happens. :D But will try him outside tomorrow.
    MaryK likes this.
  7. MaryK Honored Member

    Awesome 80% is really good:)(y)

    I can understand you're concerned about the amount of treats Charlie is getting, may I suggest using his evening meal or breakfast if you train early morning. I give my boys kibble at night, so I measure out Ra Kismet's dinner into my treat bag and what's left is what he gets for his dinner. If it's very little, and this happens at times, them I also give him a HUGE marrow bone, LOL so he doesn't think he's being kept on a diet:D

    Don't rush with trying outside, it's better to work inside for a while until he's really 'got it' then move outside.

    LOL don't have any problems with the rain, Ra Kismet LOVES rain so unless it's really driving rain we work outside in the rain:eek::D
  8. jacobite Well-Known Member

    thanks, tried outside and Charlie lied down and gae me eye contact twice, so I will go back to working indoors with him for a week. Do I make him stand up or sit or is it alright for him to lay down
    MaryK likes this.
  9. MaryK Honored Member

    Twice is grand, he's getting the message. Frankly, at this stage of training him to eye contact, I wouldn't be worrying about whether he sat, stood or LOL turned cartwheels, just so long as I was getting 'eye contact'. I think it was Pawtentional Unleashed who gave a very detailed step by step plan, I remember it was extremely good(y) Check back, sorry am a bit rushed this morning, otherwise I would, and follow her plan:)
    Ripleygirl likes this.
  10. jacobite Well-Known Member

    Took Charlie out back today and tried him on the lead out back. Distracted but he did do some eye contact until one of the kids next door started on a trampoline, and that was that. He een gae me eye contact when another dog was walking past the fence. Doing well.
    MaryK likes this.
  11. jacobite Well-Known Member

    Will try taking one step with him beside me and treating and getting another step all with eye contact . See if that will work with him.
    MaryK likes this.
  12. MaryK Honored Member

    That's really grand:D(y) With the kids with the trampoline, keep trying with Charlie, with 'look at me'. That was a major distraction though, especially for a dog, to see kids flying up in the air.
    Giving you eye contact when another dogs walked past is fantastic(y) Means he's really starting to take notice of you and not distractions.

    Keep going, it's working but as with anything, it does take time and patience.:D(y)
    Ripleygirl and Dogster like this.
  13. MaryK Honored Member

    Don't expect miracles the first, second and how ever many times it takes to get that initial eye contact. Just keep on keeping on as it WILL work - eventually:)

    Charlies had many years of not making eye contact, so it's probably not going to happen over night, you may be lucky, but don't hold your breath. Patience and perseverance are the two main words to keep in mind. Repeat and repeat, but don't keep on if he's not responding at first, just try to few times, then do something he really LOVES to finish the training.

    Always finish on a HIGH with your dog, that way they look forward to training. If you don't they feel a bit down hearted and and won't be so receptive next time.
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  14. jacobite Well-Known Member

    Had another look at what you said and went back to working in the house with Charlie by my side. Now I hae got my son working with Charlie as well as Charlie is Daid's dog. We hae got him by our side with full eye contact for 30 seconds at a time. If this works for a week, will try one step
    MaryK likes this.
  15. MaryK Honored Member

    Hey that's awesome! Keep up the good work, you WILL succeed! Glad that your son is also working with Charlie. It can confuse dogs when more than person is with them and only one person is actually training the dog, the rest are not bothering.

    That's the way, one step at a time!(y):)
    Dogster likes this.
  16. jacobite Well-Known Member

    Reason why I train Charlie and not my son is he has no patience. He leaes training to me. My son walks, feeds and loes Charlie, and I train and loe and walk on Sunday, and Monday and eery second Saturday
    MaryK likes this.
  17. MaryK Honored Member

    Patience is always needed with dog training.
    Dogster likes this.
  18. jacobite Well-Known Member

    back to square one today. Tried to take one step and from the moment I put the lead on, he decided he didn't want to look at me at all. Nothing would encourage him to look at me
    MaryK likes this.
  19. MaryK Honored Member

    That happens all the time, so don't worry. Even the best of dogs have 'one of those days'. Had one yesterday, EVERYTHING just about went wrong:(.

    Don't lose heart, there is ALWAYS tomorrow and that's another day. Just keep on working with Charlie and when you have 'one of those days' forget it and try again the next day.
    Dogster likes this.
  20. jacobite Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I feel better. Will work more with Charlie on Saturday because I work Friday.
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