D O G Does Not Spell Horse

Discussion in 'Dog Behavior Problems' started by jacobite, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. jacobite Well-Known Member

    My wqnderful 8 yo border collie pulls on the lead. I hae tried stopping, turning, walking back home, not letting him out, I hae tried all I can think of. I hae led him with a treat, he ignores it, when I stop, he waits, when I turn, he turns patiently and waits, when I go home, he sighs and waits, when I don't let him out, he has to go any way. What now?

  2. Amateur Experienced Member

    no ... but it does spell Mule :)
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  3. Ripleygirl Experienced Member

    How long have you owned your BC? Have they always pulled? Do you trick train and how much work does he get? By work I mean - anything from training to tricks to anything that engages his BRAIN and his body...
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  4. jackienmutts Honored Member

    Hi Jacobite and welcome! Loose leash walking is one of the hardest things to conquer, isn't it? I have something you may want to try. I recently was fortunate enough to attend a seminar hosted by our training facility, with Kay Laurence who's a renowned trainer from the UK (don't know where you're from - I'm from the US). A good part of the seminar focused on "the connected walk" and it was fascinating.

    Ok - so here's what you do. Begin your walk as usual. As soon as your BC begins to pull, you stop. And wait ... until your BC turns around and makes eye contact with you and then you can begin walking again. Walk walk walk .. pullll ... stop. Wait wait wait ... dog is now pulling cuz he's watching something over there, then trying desperately to sniff a bush, then oh brother, when can we move forward? ... geez, BC turns around and looks you in the eye ... and presto, you begin walking again. Walk walk walk ... pull. Stop. Sniff sniff pull pull (and you're just standing like a tree) .... BC turns and looks you in the eye ... and again, you begin walking. It was amazing that by the end of the seminar (it was a working seminar, so lots of dogs) how many dogs "got it". It was like it suddenly dawned on them, omg, there's a person at the end of the leash, and we need to travel as a team. They started thinking while they were walking and becoming more aware of the person at the end of the leash. So many really bad pullers had improved greatly just by the end of the weekend seminar. I'm fortunate that I don't have a bad puller, but I've used this with other dogs I walk, and it truly does work. Not overnight (cuz really, what does?) - but give it a try, it really does work. And a "thinking dog" is what we all love.
  5. Dogster Honored Member

    Great advice, jackienmutts!!!:D You can also try kikopup's loose-leash walking videos:

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  6. jacobite Well-Known Member

    Hi, Ripley girl, I got Charlie 6 1/2 years ago, and he is so eager to learn. I teach him tricks daily, except on Fridays when I work, and he does use his brain to play the occasional game with us, and I do take out a ball and stick but he hates it. Thanks, Jackienmutts, will try that. If I stop, he doesn't usually make eye contact, he just comes back and then walks back to pull again. Will try that and see how that goes.
  7. Dogster Honored Member

    What tricks does Charlie know???:)
  8. Pawbla Experienced Member

    Stubborn dog, get a no-pull harness. Worked for mine!
  9. Ripleygirl Experienced Member

    Hi Jacobite, Jackiemutts gave some GREAT advice there, I would also really take notes if you search Kikopup on YouTube. BC's are sometimes too clever for their own good (I am not saying this in a bad way) I am amazed by their intelligence every time I get to work with them! They are a working breed and need their mind and body to be challenged all the time. When you get to where you are taking Charlie on a leash, is his mind and body fulfilled there? Another idea may be to fulfill his mind whilst on the lead... If he is pulling to get to somewhere he can 'work' then I would go with what Jackiemutts advises but also put in 'work' for him, so when you pause if he pulls - after he calms - put in trick challenges (for instance) when he accomplishes them walk on. If he pulls stop and wait for eye contact - move on then stop him to complete a mind challenge (as simple or difficult as your dog needs) etc. Keep doing this, because he MAY pull because he can't wait to get to somewhere he associates with 'work' (which to a BC = fun) so making him 'work' on the way MAY ease his need to pull... Hope you have success and you have found a great site with brilliant like minded people who I am sure you will get lots of great ideas from.
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  10. jacobite Well-Known Member

    Charlie has learnt quite a lot. Apart from the usual, he also does "Jacobite spy dog" where he come to me, I gie him a message in his collar, he says his prayers, pretends to be shot and then gies me son the message, he also jumps the hoops, which cup, roll oer, die for Scotland, speak is difficult for him but he can, march (shake, paw, shake, paw,) off hand my mind has just gone blank, but there are a lot more. Will try to get him to work eerytime he pulls and see if that helps, will also try a no pull harness, but he hates harnesses, but will try. Will try kikopup later as well. I appreciate all the help on this forum, you are all really really great. We might just get this done.
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  11. Ripleygirl Experienced Member

    Stay strong and positive with your training, you will get there... NO BC is too old to learn!
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  12. Ripleygirl Experienced Member

    Impressive and innovative tricklist you have there too! Would love to see pics/videos of some of these... love the march idea! There is a thread for tricklists, think and add to that... very interesting! We all love new trick ideas!
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  13. Dogster Honored Member

    Wow, what an impressive trick list!!!:eek:(y)
  14. southerngirl Honored Member

    The spy trick is so cool adding that to my trick list to teach my dog Missy
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  15. jacobite Well-Known Member

    I tried to walk Charlie, get eye contact and then walk and get eye contact, but he just waits patiently for me and then goes back to pulling. The whole thing goes out of his mind as he gets into the walk. Because Charlie is so eager to learn, I hae been teaching him as much as possible. He really really loes to learn.
  16. MaryK Honored Member

    Charlie's one very smart, clever and thinking dog:) Love the Jacobite trick, awesome:)(y) And all his other list of tricks impressive!!!!(y)

    You're in the right place for help that's for sure. My late Mom had a BC and they are just the smartest of dogs, and they can pull too, that's for sure. Stay positive, Charlie will 'get it' Jackiemutts advice is super it does work. Also, have you tried using Tiger Lily's trick to get eye contact - she said she used a piece of cheese in her MOUTH. Charlie may respond with 'eye contact' if you have something near your eyes. Just a thought but Jackiemutts and Ripleygirl's advice IS GREAT.
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  17. jacobite Well-Known Member

    Will try walking backwards with Charlie when he pulls, but I feel he won't get the message with that. He will just patiently wait for me to go in his direction, and then carry on pulling. He waits patiently for me to do what he wants, then he goes back to his pulling and ignoring me. The jacobite trick came from a book on training dogs which suggested chaining tricks, ie one trick, leads to another and eentually you get the whole trick learnt.
  18. MaryK Honored Member

    Charlie is one smart cookie:) I would try walking backwards and maybe calling, or a squeakie toy to 'attract' his attention. I feel maybe you 'give in' a bit too quickly because you love him so much - I'm guilty of that too at times:) - and walk over to him because he's so good and patient:) Just remember, he's smart and at present KNOWS YOU WILL GIVE IN TO HIM - so LOL he'll play on that, not to be 'naughty' but because HE CAN:D

    Persistence and perseverance are the key, don't give up. It may happen quickly or, as it seems the case, take longer but it WILL happen:) He may be just a little 'stubborn' too - Ra Kismet can be at times, get's what I call his 'mule' look:) Maybe just stand and stand and stand some more, may take a lot of just standing on your part but he may EVENTUALLY click that you're ignoring him, and dogs do NOT like being ignored, who does actually:) and think 'hey Mom's not coming over, she's not taking any notice, OMD she's ignoring me ohohoh what do I do - maybe I had better find out what she wants'

    I adore the Jacobite trick and thanks for the tip on how you achieved such an awesome trick:D(y)

    Kudos for keeping on trying to resolve this problem and for all the wonderful training you've already done with Charlie. You'll win through - with time:)
  19. jacobite Well-Known Member

    that I hae tried with Charlie. He comes right back to me and looks at me. Then he turns goes right back to pulling until I stop again. Same thing again and again and again. That one I hae been trying for at least 6 months, but he is so patient he knows he will get there so he plays the wait and get my way game.
  20. Anneke Honored Member

    I have had a dog like that;) Pull, I stop, he stops and looks back at me, I move, he pulls.:rolleyes:
    He pull's, I walk backwards a few steps, he follows me, so I go forward, he speeds to the end of the leash and pulls:mad:
    Drives you nuts, doesn't it;)

    I managed to solve it, by just changing directions every time he would walk ahead of me. I marked the place, where I wanted him to be, in my mind and every time he went beyond that place, I would suddenly turn around and go the other way. Now, I had a clever boy, so he quickly found out, that we were going to go in the other direction again(which is where he wants to go:rolleyes:)
    So I made the walk unpredictable. I changed direction every few paces. For example: 5 paces forward, left turn(have to drag him, because he doesn't want to go there), 10 paces(he's caught up with me and has moved ahead of me), right turn(again he struggles a bit, because he doesn't want to go there), right turn, 10 paces, u-turn, 15 paces, left turn, 5 paces, right turn, 5 paces, u-turn, 10 paces. By now he's thinking: what the bleep is she doing???? All this time I'm keeping a firm pace. I don't want him to even think of sniffing.
    I have only moved about half way down the street. Rewards are only coming from my left hip. So if he wants a treat, he will have to be at my left side. Under no circomstance do I go to him, he has to come to me. If he doesn't, I walk away in the opposite direction.
    He would have to keep an eye on me, if he wanted to see where I was going. He started to pull less and less.
    But it took me a good couple of weeks to get him to stay at my side. It is very, very important to keep this up. Pulling is selfrewarding behaviour and no other reward can top that. And it is so hard, because we(only being human) don't always feel the same patience to do this. Sometimes we get frustrated after doing just 5 turns, sometimes we have endless patience and we can go on forever.
    Just the other day I was walking the dogs, thinking about what I had on my agenda that day. Cooper pulled me toward a bush where he wanted to sniff and I didn't even realize I had just followed him all the way to that bush:eek: untill he got the leash caught up in the branches:rolleyes:
    And he started pulling again. Didn't take me long to end it, because he knows by now, I don't allow it. But every chance he gets, he'll take to drag me somewhere:D

    Maybe this will work for you, I hope it does. Good luck!

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