About Yuma And Me...

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself' started by Sarah.D, Jul 22, 2011.

  1. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    jsut a guess, and a guess only, but, it could be fear/super submissive response.

    Might want to try some excercises,
    like, when doorbell rings,
    put Yuma in another room,
    allow new person in,
    after new person is seated,
    allow Yuma to come in.
    Have seated visitor ignore Yuma.
    If Yuma approaches visitor, fine, but do not have visitor acknowledge Yuma or pay Yuma any att'n at all, for now.

    let me know if she still pees on the person.

    just for investigative purposes, it'd be fun to know if that changes things for Yuma, or not. We can learn a lot about Yuma if that DOES change things for Yuma, and can go from there.

    Is Yuma a "shy" dog? Prefers to avoid UNknown humans, ducks away from UNknown human hands, etc, etc.
    or not at all?
    (sorry, i haven't gone back to read what all was going on with Yuma, you may have already stated this).

    another excercise
    MIGHT be worth a try.
    just as an excercise,
    is this:
    Have Yuma come outdoors to greet new person.
    If Yuma shows no interest in greeting the visitor, fine. don't push her to.
    After Yuma has greeted new person outdoors, if zero pee happens, reward Yuma.
    then go inside.
    maybe, just maybe, IF IF IF that works, maybe over time, Yuma gets idea she doesn't need to pee on visitors and will continue to not do so inside the house.

    My pal's dog was also very minimally shy, (shyness comes in levels, not all shy dogs share exact same level, some are severe, some are mildly shy).
    Shy "Abby" preferred UNknown ppl to not touch her,
    would move away if ppl gave her too much att'n, and also,
    peed on most (not all, but most) visitors, especially if they were males, or spoke loudly, or were very large ppl.
    Poor Abby, no one even tried to help her get over doing that.

    anyway, i'd be so curious to hear if either of the above ideas change how Yuma greets visitors.

  2. Amateur Experienced Member

    Being peed on is actually a compliment. Your dog is telling them they are top dog and exhibits this behaviour to show them he is submissive to them.

    I have a happy pee-er too. The very very very best thing to do is totally ignore the dog upon your arrival. Do not even acknowledge the dog for 10 min. Take your coat off, get a glass of water, read your mail. No petting, no talking to him just go about your business. He should be calm and settled, then you can say hello in a calm manner. THis should help. I can greet Mr. Hap pee no problem because my dog is very comfortable around me, but even my husband sometimes if he's too quick or animated upon greeting, will get a few drops on the floor.

    Tell all visitors and family to do the same. Impress upon them you and the dog will not be offended by their lack of doggy greeting and explain what you are trying to do if they are interested. We have actually had people over who co-operated fully and it worked very well. After 10 or 15 mins they could interact with the dog without incident.

    As your dog also grows and gets more confident this behaviour may dissapear with a little help from you.
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  3. Amateur Experienced Member

    Ha ! yeah what Anneke and Tigerlily said too.
  4. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    actually, i like Anneke's idea better than my own! good post Anneke.
  5. Sarah.D Well-Known Member

    I'll keep trying the lead then. ;) He will just have to deal with it.
    And he doesn't hike, just pees. All over the floor and their feet from, I guess like you said, excitement. BUT the thing is, majority do ignore him...until he pees that is. And there is no keeping him from it. I have even crated him so that guests, or whoever, could come into the house without being peed on hoping that he would calm down after he knows 'hey they are here; have been here for a while now, but not here for me'...but nooo...as soon as I let him out, he runs to where they are, jumps on them and pees. :cautious: It is embarrassing not to mention extremely aggravating. He needs to stop.
  6. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    hmmm.
    to me, it sounds like what you are describing is submissive/fear peeing...on the floor.
    *something* about your visitors worries Yuma, maybe they are loud, or big, who knows.

    I bet that is difficult, but, keep in mind, Yuma is a puppy still, doing best she can.
    This is solvable. i think you can fix this. i really do. Might have to try a few things til you find one that works, but, i bet you can solve this. Hang in there.

    Might wanna try the first idea i said, (calmly putting Yuma in other room when doorbell rings, seating visitor, THEN allowing Yuma to enter room and have seated visitor ignore Yuma.
    worth a shot, just to evaluate HOW that might impact Yuma's behavior...
    oh, never mind, i see you have tried crating Yuma....sorry, just now read that.

    Is Yuma shy at all? (not with her own family, but shy with strangers)
    on any level? with UNknown humans? Does Yuma duck away from UNknown hands? Does Yuma ever seem to want to avoid UNknown humans?
    or not at all?
  7. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Might wanna try the first idea i said, (calmly putting Yuma in other room when doorbell rings, seating visitor, THEN allowing Yuma to enter room and have seated visitor ignore Yuma.

    take above idea, there, and add in a leash.
    Have Yuma on leash when you bring Yuma out of the room to see who is here.

    Keep Yuma across the room, not allowing Yuma to get close to seated visitor.

    Ask Yuma to sit. reward. (visitor is ignoring Yuma)
    Have Yuma lie down, reward.

    after a lil while, waitng a while, if Yuma seems calm, drop leash.

    If Yuma does not calm down, yawn at her while she is looking at you, so Yuma sees you yawn..SLOW BLINK to Yuma.
    (dog language for "calm down")

    So long as Yuma is excited, she has to stay across room, on leash, in a sit or down.
    Once Yuma ever calms down, then drop leash.

    what happens if you do that?
  8. Sarah.D Well-Known Member

    I have tried keeping HIM on the leash. He just barks and pulls me over. He isn't shy at all; LOVES everything and everyone. He just gets so excited and steps all over people's feet while peeing. The ignoring thing also doesn't work...he just jumps and aggravates the heck out of whoever is here. I am getting to the point of putting him in his crate and not letting him out until the person that has come leaves. I don't want my guests peed on and certainly don't want my carpet smelling! (n)
  9. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    well, i'd feel same way, i would not want my guests or carpets peed on, i can understand your frustration.
    If you are truly unable to control your dog on a leash,
    you might have to use a Gentle Leader head collar while you work on learning
    how to teach your dog to be calm,
    and
    how to teach your dog to walk in loose leash heel.
    if you would be willing to learn either item, let me know, i'll send short quickie tutorial to help you get started.
    but,
    yeah, til then,
    maybe you'd want to use a GL head collar, but remember, you can NOT not not not ever pull sharply or yank at a dog in a GL head collar, you could hurt their neck.
    GOOD LUCK!
  10. Amateur Experienced Member

    To me I might first start to work on calming behaviours. It was mentioned in another post recently where you use the clicker to signal when your dog is exhibiting a calm behaviour such as sitting laying down etc. Just stand there with your dog and "click & treat " when the dog is calm. WHen you go foe walks just stop and stand there ... when your dog calms - click and treat .... eventually andhopefully the dog will adopt a more relaxed posture at other times. gradually add distractions, such as someone else in the room ( stay leashed for control) . When the dog calms click treat.

    I think you cant adequately work on the peeing alone until the dog understands excitement impulse control.
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  11. southerngirl Honored Member

    For the pulling while on walks try going the opposite way he is pulling say in a excited voice let's go.
    If you know your having guest try taking him out right before they come so he'll basically have a empty bladder. also have visitors ignore this behavior when she has calmed down ur visitors than should calmly walk up and pet her such as when she's lying down eventually she'll realize that all her jumping and desperate please for attention won't get her anything. Oh and your dog is beautiful and your doing a great job with her she is lucky to have such a great owner.:D
  12. Sarah.D Well-Known Member

    Yeah...easier said than done. Yuma....well, he doesn't mind worth a damn. (pardon my language)
    Sometimes I think he deliberately disobeys just to see if he can get away with it. He never does, but he keeps on. I know the little :poop: is smart, so he should be able to pick up on this.
    It just seems to be an uphill battle with this dog.
  13. Sarah.D Well-Known Member

    I do take him out before they come. He SAVES pee, I swear! :ROFLMAO:
    And the switching directions thing doesn't work either. Tired it. For hours. He just runs and pulls the way I am facing, no matter what.
  14. Amateur Experienced Member

    Have you tried being a tree :rolleyes:
  15. running_dog Honored Member

    It sounds like Yuma is still a real character and he is GORGEOUS! But it is really frustrating to have to persevere with a dog that doesn't seem quite like the the advert on the package though I'm sure you have made lots of progress with other Yuma training. He sounds in character rather like a standard poodle that I know, he challenged a lot of my ideas about training!

    Just trying to give ideas that I might try in a similar situation with the poodle, sorry if you've already tried them:
    • Is there any way you can let Yuma greet people and then distract him before he gets over excited? I'm thinking kind of like me letting a dog play for a few seconds with another dog then stopping him before he starts to be over excited and splats it :eek:. I know this would be really hard with so big a dog especially if greeting people is the best thing in his day.
    • Could you keep him in a crate or leash him to an immovable object to restrain him when visitors arrive? Maybe tied so he's by his bed so you can train him to lie on his bed when visitors arrive. Maybe only release him as they have just left the house and then if that works gradually release him a little bit earlier?
    • Could you keep him behind a baby gate or some other barrier so that he can see the people but not greet them, then when he is calm they could greet him over the gate? I like this idea best because if he he doesn't behave how you want before or during the greeting the visitor can just walk away, fun stops (or never starts), no attention for Yuma. Withdrawing attention like this would be the worst sanction EVER for the poodle and maybe Yuma too?
    tigerlily46514, mewzard and sara like this.
  16. laramie Experienced Member

    I don't know if this will work for you about the peeing, but it might help teach him some manners when meeting new people. My dog Sparrow is very bad about getting up in people's space. She'll come and sit on your feet and try to get in your lap when you sit down.
    • First, tie a knot in the end of the leash and slide it under a door and close it so that the knot is keeping him from going anywhere. Sort of like he was tied to something.
    • Then have someone enter the room and walk up to him, keeping just out of his reach. They should ignore him until he's calm.
    • Then have them take a step forward and see if Yuma remains calm. If he does, they can offer a good boy, a treat, or even pet him. If he freaks out and starts jumping up or peeing, have them back away and ignore him until he is calm.
    • Repeat these steps until he is calm while they approach.
    Does he jump up on people? You can also try this outside and tether him to something so you won't have to clean his pee off the floor.

    Hopefully, this will teach him that he needs to sit patiently for someone to pet him and that walking all over their feet isn't okay. I would recommend doing this outside at first because you can let him pee and not have to worry about him getting it on people or the floor.

    I think it would be okay to let him pee at first if he isn't jumping up. It's okay to fix only fix one thing at a time. After he is sitting nicely and not squirming too much but still peeing, you can ignore him whenever he pees. It might be too big of a step for him if you want him sitting still and not peeing right at first.
  17. mewzard Experienced Member

    Oh gosh i feel for you, you have Oka in a boy shell and it's a pain in the rear so bad! So many times i knew this was true, i got to the point once where i wanted to give her back as i just knew that she knew what she was doing...it's kind of like a game. (did that make any sense?!). Hand on heart he will get better but keep sticking to the rules!! Oka is 17 months in in the past 3 months she has gotten alot easier - she's not perfect and has certain days where i want to throttle her (not that i would) but we are seeing an improvement.
    .
    Not had the peeing greeting thing. How does he greet people before this? Is he supposed to sit or go to bed? Oka is supposed to sit politely (though at the moment she seems to have "forgotten" this). I'm wondering if he needs a 'rule' to know what to do. People come in- i sit - get reward - go on my way. If he's sitting he can't pee on them. _ OPPs just saw laramie's post - she has a good idea.
    .
    Another idea is "find it" which is finding treats - though this may excite him more. People enter and throw treats into the room so he isn't near them.
    .
    ignoring WILL work in the end, don't even look at him . i used to turn my back - it was easier. I'm assuming it's the Halti head collar your talking about. Put it on him and feed him a ton of boiled chicken breast then take it off (and repeat) - he'll like it after a little while;). Have you tried a harness? I find Oka SOOO much easier on one. She weighs 1/2 of me but can't drag me around on one...but if you do PLEASE please get a front clip one - a back clip one will make life worse!
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  18. Anneke Honored Member

    From what I make out of your posts, I do think it is a self control thing. He has none!!!:D Someone is coming!!! OOOHHH JOY!!!!
    I think that if you work on his self control a lot of your training will improve.
    And what laramie discribes in her post, is exactly the way I have trained self control with humans.
    We have trained self control during the walk too. If he gets all jumpy and does not pay attention to you, put your foot on the leash, close enough to his collar, so he will still be able to sit or stand, but not be able to jump around.(By putting your foot on the leash and still holding on to the end, you have a better grip and he won't be able to pull you over so easily) Just stand there and wait untill he gives up his madness and reward for sitting or standing or at least being calm.
    It might take a while before he gets it, but he will. He sounds like a very determined dog:D

    Also you can treat for eyecontact. Have him sit in front of you, hold a treat in front of your nose. When he looks at you, he gets the treat. This will teach him to look at you more. Give it a cue, like LOOK! or Watch!
    Build on duration, by making him look longer before he gets a treat. Stand up and ask for eyecontact.
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  19. jackienmutts Honored Member

    First off - keep telling yourself, over and over and over ... he will grow up, he will grow up, he will grow up!! :confused::ROFLMAO: He's kind of a big puppy, going thru lots of stuff. His peeing sounds like excitement peeing to me. Lots of good suggestions here -- just remember, as hard as it is, the one thing you don't want to do, is punish him for it, or sound frustrated with him when he does it. And yes, dogs seem to always have an unlimited supply on hand, so just because you take him out right before company comes doesn't mean he doesn't have plenty left to "share" with guests. :eek: The idea of keeping him behind a baby gate when people come over, until he's totally calmed down (and maybe a while after that, until you've become ho-hum boring) is good. He needs to learn that when people come, it's no big deal. Keep people from greeting him, no bending over him, no big "party-palooza" just cuz he's cute (and I'd surely want to make a big deal over him!!;)). Ask guests to please ignore your boy from now on - act like he's not even there.

    As for his leash "activities", I found links to two articles on one of my fav sites that may help you. Read the articles thoroughly, and really comprehend what they're saying. Start him all over again, someplace really boring, like maybe the back yard. Don't worry about walking him in the neighborhood right now, start again with the basics. When we begin teaching a dog a new behavior, like "sit" or "down", we start in a nice quiet area with no distractions, like the kitchen, or the living room. And we practice, and we practice, til it gets really good there - and then we move into another room, and we practice and practice there, etc. THEN, when the dog is really good in the house, we move outside and sometimes it's like starting all over again. But - somehow, we put them on a leash, take them outside into the world, all full of fabulous smells and distractions, and expect to have their attention, and that they won't pull. That's the one behavior we train totally backwards (and then get frustrated with the dog -- and in the meantime, they're becoming expert mushers!). So - take a deep breath, gather up loads and loads of patience, your clicker (hopefully you have one), a truckload of treats, find someplace quiet and boring, and start all over again. And go as slowly as you (and Yuma) need to go. Good luck!!

    http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002/pulling.htm
    http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/lltotal.htm
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  20. Amateur Experienced Member

    Re: leash pulling

    I have a brilliant Border Collie x who at 10 months can do calculus but can't seem to understand I don't want her to pull on the leash. NOTHING seems to work either - Gentle leader -- yeah right - she can pull on that just as well as the collar.
    She KNOWS what to do - if I stop she will back up to a better position then back to pulling.

    Right now ( fingers crossed ) I am going back to the treat method which I abandoned earlier because if the treats didnt come fast enough she would poke and poke ( this was back in her really demanding days).

    Now I hold a treat in each hand ( walking two dogs ) leashes fastened around my wrists, and hold the treats down by my side. THe hand is closed and will not release the treat until the dogs have walked at my side for a length of time with NO nose nuzzling of the hand. What I get is two dogs walking by my side looking up at me constantly, sometimes sniffing/licking the hand - (but hopefully thats stops when they get the idea it doesnt produce food).

    I just sort of came up with this recently ... can anyone find fault in what I am doing. By this I mean am I rewarding for something else other than position - that I just can see ?

    Does make for a pull free walk - even though my hands get all goobery.
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