Training Methods?

Discussion in 'Obedience Training' started by mtagntz, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. Puppylove Well-Known Member

    Evie, I agree with you...

    I sometimes make a sound that's like the quiz buzzer sound in Sale of The Century when the question is answered incorrectly, do you know what I mean?? :confused:I do it in a high pitched almost singing happy voice if they get the exercise wrong and I can honestly say that in all the years that I had dogs I have only said the word "NO!" to them once, I did it firmly and in probably more of a scared than angry voice because they were both running to check out a snake!! At this time, since I have never used it before the word was very effective and I can honestly say that I haven't used it again but if I had to in a dangerous or life threatening situation I certainly would...

    Having said that, I must also say that I don't consider the sound I make a negative thing because I don't think my dogs relate it to negativity. I think they relate it to "Oops sorry but you don't get paid for that one, try again" However, I do consider the growling sounds and the "BAHH" or "NO!!!" or a growling "NAH!" to be negative because they are threatening..

    Am I making any sense?? What I'm saying makes sense in my head but I'm not too sure it makes sense when written...
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  2. MaryK Honored Member

    You make sense in writing Puppy Love. I too had to use the NO very firmly, both boys were heading for a poisonous spider and as I have been zapped by one I know just how much they hurt! Other than that I use a laugh and a 'not quite what I wanted young man' or something like that when Ra Kismet doesn't quite 'get it'. Or ooops try again. Come on you can do it. Along those lines, I'm a vocal trainer. Must work as he never stops wagging his tail or giving me eye contact and LOVES to train - looks a bit subduedastonished when given his release word though:LOL: Means end of training OH please more, more!!!!!!!!! I never use BAH, NAH or anything like that as to me that's threatening. Don't have any particular noise though, maybe I should develop one?
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  3. sara Moderator

    So you use it as a "No Reward Marker" then. I have NRM's for Oliver too, as he seems to need/want feedback, or he just looks at me blankly (comes from doing too much luring, I think) but I dont use NRM's for Mouse, as she doesn't need them LOL. I will, however, tap Mouse on the head (an attention getter) and shake my finger at her if she is doing something she shouldn't... which is rather often, to be honest LOL
  4. Puppylove Well-Known Member

    Perfectly said Sara... :)
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  5. curls139 Well-Known Member

    As new dog owners we have had Russ for about 7 months now. Initially - not knowing we went for the more 'dominance theory' based leash corrections, not going through doors first etc (probably because we have a TV showing national geographic channel?)...all for a matter of weeks. Now Russ snuggles on the bed at night with the cat, on the sofa when he's calm and sits on your lap for a cuddle, and eats when he eats, he doesn't pull anymore (mostly) and is learning tricks and calming around other dogs, all using R+.

    In short we play and laugh with him and love him. And I feel his behaviour hasn't exploded uncontrollably as a result. I feel he has bonded to us as a rescue dog for half his life, he now has a family where he feels happy, secure content and able to learn
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  6. curls139 Well-Known Member

    We also use a 'No reward marker' "Ah ah" or "oi" when he gets too amorous with Toby the cat even though he loves him dearly and will sleep while Toby licks him. For the cats safety and his big staffy jaws it's an essential
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  7. Dogster Honored Member

    I also use "No" when it's a dangerous situation. When I'm training, I use "Ooops!!" or "try again" cuz when I use "no" it makes her upset. She's part Whippet which makes her a very sensitive dog. :)
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  8. Anneke Honored Member

    Positive reinforcement, but I do use NO.
    It is a cue not to go do, whatever they had in mind of doing;)
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  9. rouen Experienced Member

    +R all the way, although I do accidentally say "no" sometimes but I dont think the dogs see it as a correction because I say it in more of a playful tone. O_o I am working on eliminating it from my dog training vocab anyway.
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  10. southerngirl Honored Member

    When teaching Missy things I don't use a NRM I just have her try it again. If she is outside in the backyard(not fenced in) I'll use a sharp "eh" if she tries to leave the yard or stares intently in the direction of barking dogs.
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  11. Amateur Experienced Member

    I use the word "No" all the time. I just talk to my guys like they are kids so its just natural.
    My last dogs understood "puppies no go", "no more" "no pull" "no bark" etc and the general no. I personally think its all in the way you use it. Tone is everything.
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  12. bekah1001 Honored Member

    Im trying to be R+ but I slip up with a NO or an AHAH every once in a while
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  13. MaryK Honored Member

    Don't worry Bekah, Amateur is right, it's not so much the word per se but your TONE. If you constantly YELLED NO at a dog, that would be awful, but used in a conversational tone, no harm done. (and no pun intended either:)) I think we all slip at times, no is a natural part of our conversation and we talk to our dog as people.
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  14. bekah1001 Honored Member

    I promise that the next dog I own will be trained 100% positive. No hitting, no yelling, and no intimidating. It's going to take a lot of patience
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  15. Amateur Experienced Member

    I take my cues from the dog ... if I yell no and they cower - wont use it
    If I yell no and they go " oh ok what now" I will. Hank and Zoe are two totally different dogs hank just needs his name drawn out Haaaaaannnnnk but Zoe always needed a bit more.

    We all make mistakes - that is natural. I asked a Behaviourist friend when I was having a very difficult time with puppy Zoe if they will remember my bad moments. She answered saying she once asked her kids if they remembered a certain moment when she lost her temper etc. The kid just looked at her and said " What ?, when ?"

    Dogs forgive and forget if the other 99% of the time is acceptance and love.

    So the next time Zoe is fast diving open mouth for the cat you can believe I am not going to be worried about yelling NOOOOOOOOOOOO
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  16. Adrianna & Calvin Experienced Member

    I guess we're all different in that way too, because I sure as heck remember!

    I didn't use the word "no" with my late dog, who could hear. I would change the tone of my voice -- he could recognize exasperation, or impatience -- and I would use an interrupter in an emergency (he's about to jump out the car door while still attached to the seatbelt) but "no" isn't very useful to me. It doesn't tell the dog what to do instead. So I'd rather teach a strong Wait, Down, Sit, Leave It, etc. than waste time playing whack-a-mole with things I don't want him to do.

    Once you get a deaf dog, of course, there is no more using tone of voice. So oddly enough, I do use the ASL sign for No with Calvin. I use it rarely, and really only as an interrupter. I tried to teach it as a means of telling him he's on the wrong track -- for example, he follows my hand movements closely and there are times when I guess he thought I was pointing elsewhere, or had thrown a treat, and he starts searching for it, and I tried to tell him there was a mistake, but No didn't work in this instance.

    Physical punishment and other forms of intimidation, always end up working against the relationship. I found it very hard to work with Calvin at first, both because he is very intense about working (to the point where he gets overwhelmed with excitement) and because - speaking honestly - he's not nearly so clever as my last dog. When I found myself wanting to proclaim him an unteachable dunce and stomp off into the sunset, I signed "all done," threw a few treats and had him "find it" and then I picked up my iPod and opened up a game or something else fun. I always have my iPod touch with me, and I would look at the news, or email, or a game. It would both distract me from my hair-pulling feeling and actually reward me for the training session. (It didn't occur to me till much later that I was doing that; I just started it to distract myself and let myself calm down.)

    In time, through not making our sessions a big frustrating deal, we actually can have longer sessions (so that I can choose when to end it) and they are infinitely more pleasant. If we start out training and he's too off-the-wall, we just stop and do it some other time.

    I can't tell you how frustrating I found it to work with Calvin in the beginning. If anyone finds herself/himself in a situation where they're afraid of resorting to punishments, feel free to contact me, I can share my stories of extreme exasperation and what I did to work things out for the better.
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  17. MaryK Honored Member

    Patience comes more easily if you remember just how much you love your dog. How sensitive they are to everything you say and do and take THREE VERY DEEP BREATHS when you find they've been naughty:)
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  18. MaryK Honored Member

    A & C I like the way you reward yourself when training gets frustrating, very good idea(y) . I will remember that.
  19. ProjectErin Member

    Yay so glad find a positive forum! :)
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  20. Emily Marston Well-Known Member

    My parents used strong negative reinforcement on my Scottish Terrier mix. She is now very antisocial, and dislikes being handled. She is almost broken and is one of the saddest dogs I've ever seen. As I got older, about 10 or 11, I realized how sad she actually was. I am forever using +R, as I just can't stand seeing a dog react so sadly. Since I've been using +R on her, she's become a bit more social. But as she has allergies that constantly irritate her and still scolded by my dad, she will never become a truly happy dog. -R will only break a dog, I have seen how unhappy a dog can become after almost 8 years of it. Never again will I even be tempted to use -R on animals!!!!
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