Tantrum Big Time Over Reaction

Discussion in 'Dog Behavior Problems' started by MaryK, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. southerngirl Honored Member

    LOL:ROFLMAO: Tag is his nickname it's short for Tagalong. The first thing I would teach him is spin. It's an easy trick.
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  2. MaryK Honored Member

    LOL did say I was half asleep:coffee::coffee::coffee: Great name, even if it does confuse some half asleep dummies:D I think, now I'm more awake Sit Pretty would be a good one for Maeve as she already does this, so can 'capture' that.
  3. Dogster Honored Member

    Yeah, sit pretty is a good trick to teacha cat. My cat loved to do it.:D Cats do a sit pretty and at the same time swat at your hand, LOL:LOL:

    Good treat: Tuna:p
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  4. jackienmutts Honored Member

    Sooooo happy all's been going well!!! Behind on threads, really busy work week, will catch up more this weekend. You and Ra Kismet both rock!!! Kudos to both of you!!! :D(y):LOL:

    As far as clicker training - you can clicker train most anything with the ability to think. There are actually "chicken camps" given here ( USA - not sure about other countries) given by professional trainers, where one works with chickens. You really want to improve your clicker training skills? Clicker train a chicken. :LOL: Clicker training got it's origins in the marine world, being used to train whales and dolphins. Think about it - a little piece of plastic having that much influence over a whale. Truly amazing.
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  5. MaryK Honored Member

    Thank you will use Tuna, I think even my two fuss pots will like that:D Yes, Maeve swipes your hand quite well already so with click/treat she'll be awesome:D Now, if I can only stop Ra Kismet and Maeve playing chase - we just may have a 'double act':D
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  6. MaryK Honored Member

    Understand Jackiemutts thank you I'm so proud of the boy:D Ra Kismet did really well yesterday(y) We had our first 'close encounter' little soprano yapper behind a fence and HIGHLY VISIBLE, with a bass baritone booming in the background not sighted, on the SAME side of the road, with a narrowish sidewalk. Ra Kismet started to looked a bit more interested than when passing on the other side of the road but I quickly swung into action, shortened the lead up as he was on completely loose lead and went into TREAT DISPENSER MODE:D He lost interest quite quickly and then LOL, just SAT when I tried to move him along once more:D He looked at me as if to say 'hey Mom, I like sitting and being a good boy, get's me lotsa treats'. He did 'bottom bump' along a bit but still remained sitting, until I had an AHAHA moment, started walking backwards, kept low so I was keeping close eye contact with Ra Kismet and he followed like an angel. LOL well the treat bag anyway. LOL must have given the motorists an eyeful (all stopped for a traffic light) me with bottom up, head down walking in reverse :ROFLMAO:but hey who cares, Ra Kismet got past his first 'close encounter' with dignity, LOL even if I didn't:ROFLMAO:, and HE'S THE ONE WHO COUNTS.

    So proud of the chap, he's going great guns:D(y)(y) Rest of the walk he was an ANGEL, went past all the known yappers without the slightest bit of interest, they were on the other side of the road though except the new one with a shill yap but that ones wasn't visible and LOL think Ra Kismet was GLAD to hurry past that one 'oh our ears", but hey he's doing sooooooooo well.:D Today (Saturday) we may encounter 'dogs on the same side not behind fences' as it's a bit harder to judge when the doggy brigade is on the move, not so regular on weekends with their times. Trying to make it easy for the boy, not push him at all, as he's doing sooooooooooo well:D We shall see what happens. Will load up with even more treats, just to be sure, don't want to run out as the TREAT DISPENSER is so important. No doubts in my mind that click/treat works like magic(y)(y)(y)
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  7. Dogster Honored Member

    OMD, the progress he's making is unbelievable.:eek: I wish I could fly over there to Australia and see how well he's doing!!!!:)
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  8. MaryK Honored Member

    I've seen the chickens being trained, amazing!!!!!!!!! I adore chickens (partner doesn't:() but would love to have some one day and train them too - after I have got Ra Kismet used to them - he's never seen a chicken:confused::confused:

    It is amazing, a piece of plastic costing next to nothing and you can train mammals like whales and dolphins, just shows the power of that small piece of plastic. LOL now I'm totally wondering what on earth it is about that click which makes such a HUGE difference. I have always used treats but not the clicker, and when Rakins went into over drive, as you said, he didn't even hear me or was conscious I existed (or anything else for that matter except the object he was focused on, the other dog). But with the clicker, ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD, one little clicker, different reaction from my boy entirely. It has to be the clicker which makes the difference though LOL of course, followed by a treat or a jackpot is grand. He reacts like lightening the moment he hears that 'click'. I'm totally in awe of it's power. Am also wondering why other trainers and schools don't use it:rolleyes: as it's a very kind, effective way of getting our dogs to understand the rules they need to know to live happily in our world.

    Ra HATED the slip chain, keep your puppy (as he was then) tight against your side and jerk, as the wretched woman did, your dog along if it doesn't respond. I was HORRIFIED when she got a little, nervous white fluffy, and LITERALLY PULLED THE LITTLE DOG ALONG so much so it BOUNCED IN A KIND OF BALL, didn't 'walk' along at all. Poor little thing was all scrunched up and TERRIFIED you didn't need to be an 'expert' to see the sheer terror in that poor wee souls body language and eyes. It was that night Ra and I left half way through the class never to return. And other dog owners LAUGHED sick sick sick:censored::censored::censored: what I thought of it all! She had the left hand tight against her side with lead through it and literally YANKED with the right hand a jerking movement back and forth kinda like trying to start an older type of lawn mower- disgusting and she got furious with me because I REFUSED to do that with Ra Kismet - I was so furious I had to keep my mouth shut and just leave, there were children in the class:eek: I turned on my heels and walked out in the middle of class, too disgusted to even leave at the end. She'd been on my back before that because I had Rakins on a loose lead, said that wasn't the way to train a dog - obviously she had NEVER EVEN HEARD OF LOOSE LEAD TRAINING. I did argue on that one but....well suffice to say we did NOT agree on how to train dogs, certainly NOT with my boy! I'd already taken him off the slip chain, again bringing all hell down on me LOL I don't think I was too popular:eek:
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  9. MaryK Honored Member

    Thank you Dogster:D I too am totally amazed, the kids learning so well:D Wish you could fly over and meet him, he's such an adorable little fellow and he'd love to meet you too:D (so would I of course). I'm NOT exaggerating how well he's doing, not worth doing that, as how can I get help/advice by exaggerating? He does learn quickly, from the moment I got him, I somehow KNEW he was one VERY smart, thinking puppy:D LOL, he knew just how to win my partner over who had said NO he goes back at first:D Rakins turned on the 'charm offensive' just at the RIGHT moment:D:D I didn't have to do a thing because believe me NO WAY was Ra Kismet going back, partner could go but NOT Ra Kismet!!!!!!!!! Funniest sight ever, partner lying on his back on the ground making 'puppy noises' - Ra Kismet was a tad wary of men when I first got him - I didn't know how to keep a straight face and ignore the performance:ROFLMAO: but thought it best to allow Rakins to 'do his thing'. LOL he won, partner adores him, even if partner isn't too good at dog training:rolleyes:.

    I knew though Ra Kismet and I had that 'extra special bond' the moment the lady from the shelter placed him in my arms. He kinda snuggled into me and 'sighed' it still makes me tear up (happily) when I think of that first moment:love: It was love at first sight:love::love:
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  10. jackienmutts Honored Member

    Mary, just went back to your intro thread and looked at your pics again - I had forgotten, but remembered looking at them the second I saw them. Both pups are adorable, but yes, your little "Rakins" (how cute) is a looker. :love:

    A friend and I were having a talk only today very similar to what you brought up above, about the horrible way dogs have been treated all in the name of training. We wouldn't think of putting a choke collar on a cat, or alpha-rolling a cat (just try that and see if you have a face left!), or putting a shock collar on a horse, or doing some of the horrid things we do to dogs, to any other animals. Yet we take these loving creatures who would (in many cases) give their lives for us, and stick shock collars on them, pinch and prong collars, choke collars, alpha-roll them, scruff them, jerk and yank them around, accuse them of trying to dominate us and our world, hit them, etc. and then we wonder why so many have issues??? Holy cow. Good for you walking out of that class, and how sad that no one else was bright enough to follow you! When that little voice inside of you speaks, it's usually best to listen, and when it tells you to run, you usually just have to ask which direction - and go. And you'll most often be glad you did. Thank heavens you once again listened to that voice. Seems your gut instincts have been so good in leading you toward right/wrong as far as dogs' welfare and best interests. Sadly some pay no attention and only want fast/now/hurry/instant gratification, no matter what. The thing is, one day you're going to realize you're walking down the street, Rakins has no reaction, doesn't even look at you, you'll want to burst, but will just keep on walking - and that will become the norm. And the trust and bond you two will have will be so immense by then that you won't even be able to describe it to people. And those who jerk and yank their dogs into submission may have quiet dogs *for now* but they miss the fun of getting there, and they totally miss that relationship built on total trust. And that's worth every second of the journey.
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  11. MaryK Honored Member

    Oh Jackiemutts you are SO RIGHT:D(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y) Everything you say is true. Yes, I had to smile a little at trying to alpha roll my cats, I wouldn't be ALIVE if I tried that, let alone minus a face. Yet, as you say, people do all this to dogs:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

    And then on the news you hear about the 'increasing number of dog attacks'. I get furious beyond words as it's NEVER the dogs fault but the owners and yet, sadly, the dogs are blamed and well we know what happens next:cry::cry::cry:

    Well my 'method' is to put myself in my dog's place. How would I like that done to me? If it's one of the cruel methods, the answer is a resounding NO WAY!!!!!!!!! Use those tactics with me and I'd play up BIG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus I watch/study my dogs, how they react and move, what's the look in their eyes (the mirrors of the soul) everything about them, including how they breathe, is it deep and easy or ????. I also talk to my dogs as if they could speak back using our language and I know people think I'm barmy but I swear they DO understand. Rakins (thank you that's his pet name:D) understands many more words than people realize and I KNOW this by HIS reactions to something I may say, not always directly to him, but something related.

    You're right onwhen that little voice speaks, take heed and when it says run - just run away!!!!!!!!! I always listen to my 'little voice' it's never let me down yet:D

    I feel sorry for the dogs and the owners who want the quick 'instantly obedient dog'. It's not going to happen, unless you CAUSE THE DOG TO FEAR YOU and that's just NOT a relationship I would want with my dogs. My partner is, through total ignorance, one who thought (more past tense now thank goodness) that puppies would INSTANTLY know to stay etc. He had the Brad Pattison video (I didn't know this) downloaded, just after I got Rakins, and came in all smiles telling me that this guy had youngsters 9 weeks old sitting and staying outside a shop WITHOUT SUPERVISION!~!!!!!!!!!!!! I was STUNNED and said or rather stuttered "not possible, puppies that young impossible' and other such virtually inarticulate words. Then I saw 'that' video and nearly had fifty fits. Told my partner if he ever dared use any of those methods with Rakins he'd wish he was dead!!!!!!!!!! He did dare to alpha roll Rakins once and brother :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: suffice to say he was in the dog house and not a very pleasant one either!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's learning, partner that is, that my way MAY be a bit slower but it's the right way.

    Rakins and I have a very strong bond and it's becoming even stronger. I am already at the point where I just cannot describe how strong it is and yes, I pray it NEVER happens but I swear he would give his life for me and I would for him:love::love:.

    We're progressing towards that moment when you feel you could burst with pride at how wonderful your boy is walking down the street. I would say now, we're around 90% there, 110% when all is quiet. We just have to work a little more and of course THE BIG ONE hasn't come up yet. Today was apparently 'mower day' so not too many dogs around, just the usual yappers and one Mr. Rowdy - not right on his fence line but at the back but because the neighbors drive way was open he could see us clearly through more railings. He barked like mad and his owner (well I presume so) just looked and walked away. Didn't bother to speak to the dog or anything! My darling did look down the drive way but LOL I went into my click/treat modus operandi and Rakins just sat and didn't bat a pretty eyelash:D I always ask for protection before we go out and that we will NOT meet another dog on the street, same side, UNTIL Rakins is ready to meet that challenge. I know the Universe hears me:D.

    I would HATE to have the 'perfectly behaved instantly obedient puppy' honestly, you'd miss so much fun along the way. Puppyhood is exciting, a learning, exploring time for them and it's just beyond words beautiful to see them exploring this big wide world that we so often take for granted. To see their reactions, watch them check out something, which to us would be mundane, is a pure joy no words can describe. LOL, it's almost a sad moment when you realize your 'baby' has become 'all grown up'. Except of course for that loving bond:love: Rakins is holding on to adolescence BIG TIME and I"M SO HAPPY:D His zest for life is FANTASTIC and those eyes - the kid gets me in every time - cheeky, loving and oh so full of joy:love: And LOL so disgusted the flop on the floor when he doesn't get his own way, priceless, has to be seen, he's so funny:D e.g. HE's ready for training and I ask him to hold on a minute. LOL he's always ready, keen and willing to 'work':D

    More photos on the way and maybe a little video of Rakins doing his 'tricks", so glad you found the others, I was sure I had posted some some where. And Zeus, he's a sensational boy too:love:
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  12. MaryK Honored Member

    Oh yes, I learned a lot from an old American Indian who lived near us back home. He was amazing a 'true' animal whisperer' not like the other (Millan) fake one. He was Cherakee (sorry spelling's failed me) and was absolutely one with nature and everything which lived on this planet. I learned the real 'old ways' about how to treat animals from him and it's always stayed with me. His animals, and he had many both domesticated and wild ones, where his friends. He ate and slept with them and LOVED them, so gentle and kind. I still tear when I think of him, if only others were more like him this would be a beautiful world for all:love:
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  13. Dogster Honored Member

    Awww, that's beautiful, Mary:love: I love your posts.:D

    Jackienmutts you are SO RIGHT!!!! I've never thought about it that way before... humans only do this to DOGS.:mad: Man's best friend. And after everything people like Cesar Millan, or Brad Pattinson, and all their followers do to dogs, we still expect them to be our BEST FRIENDS?!?!? And be loyal and gentle towards us?!?!?!O_o If I were a dog, I wouldn't even THINK about trustuing, or being loyal to a person that hits, kicks, pinces me, puts prong collars and shock collars on me, dominates me... I'd just be plain terrified.O_o HEY, DOGS HAVE FEELINGS TOO. (y)
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  14. MaryK Honored Member

    Thank you Dogster:D I agree with EVERYTHING you say, though I'd be one of the 'bad' dogs I think, if I were treated like that:mad: Have you ever noticed that these people, Millan, Pattinson etc. NEVER mention the word LOVE at all? I've only watched them a bit, makes me too sick to watch too much, but never once have I heard the words LOVE, LOYALTY, TRUST or any of the GOOD words. All you ever hear is dominance, dog at the bottom of the ladder etc. etc. The awful woman in the ghastly dog school went on for ages and ages about how our dogs were at the bottom of the ladder blah blah blah. I took Rakins for a wee walk about, he was bored witless and I was mad:mad: And she had the nerve to ask me if I heard and understood what she was saying - I understood all too clearly - I didn't even reply and I'm not normally that rude to people:mad: The other thing, in that school, I never saw her pat a dog or, apart from yanking them around, acknowledge their existence:mad:. When I said to her Rakins was bored, that's why he was 'playing up', trying to entice a very charming young GS to play, doing a bit of 'ground work' (digging up the grass) and umm being a bit restive, she said and this is verbatam "I don't care about the dog". As you all know, we left!

    Yes dogs have feelings VERY SENSITIVE ONES TOO!!!!!!!!!!!! They're more sensitive than a lot of humans and a darned sight more loving, compassionate, caring and understanding to boot! Oh yes and MORE intelligent, MORE willing to learn. My boys are told how much I love them all the time:love::love::love:
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  15. Dogster Honored Member

    Ugh, that training class sounds horrible.:confused::mad: I don't understand how sitting with us on the couch, or digging in the garden is a sign of dominance. They just want to be dogs, they want to spend some time with us. Dogs don't want to dominate us, but a lot of humans think so, and they treat them like they're alien beings trying to take over the world.
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  16. MaryK Honored Member

    It was Dogster. My vets did have flyers for it but after I told them what it was like, they removed them(y) They were horrified, especially about the yanking and saying she wasn't interested in the dog. They're totally into positive reinforcement, so much so they won over my late Buddha (cat), who was the only animal I've had who didn't like vets. The school has either closed down (HOORAY if that's the case) or moved, because I haven't seen their signage when I go past.

    Nor do I, my dogs sit on the couch and LOL Rakins sits on my lap (he must have been a Chuahua (can never remember how to spell that one:))in a past reincarnation). Plus they sleep on my bed, well technically Zeus sleeps IN the bed under the duvet, until he gets too hot:D. Dogs don't want to dominate us at all, they want to be part of the family and treated with love and respect:love:

    Digging in the garden is usually a sign of sheer boredom, they're using their minds to find something to play with, shows they're thinking much more than 'being naughty':D

    Yes I agree, a lot of people think dogs are trying to dominate us, take over the world (may just be a better place if they did take over) and I am sure Aliens would think VERY poorly of humans if they got the same treatment many hand out to dogs!
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  17. Dogster Honored Member

    I agree. (y)

    That's SO CUTE about Ra Kismet and Zeus, aww!! :love: I can imagine Ra squeezing onto your lap, lol :LOL:O_o Must be hard on you, lol.

    Yeah, I think the world would be a better place if dogs took over. Then Cesar Millan and Brad Pattinson would be wearing the shock collars!!!:p
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  18. MaryK Honored Member

    LOL Well it's a tad difficult if I'm trying to drink a cuppa:LOL: But he's actually so smart, because I sit in the corner of the couch, next to the side table, he kinda 'tucks himself half on me and half on the couch, sits like a human with his head either on my shoulder or on the arm of the couch:LOL: Though just occasionally he will sit facing me and LOL I have to make sure he doesn't end up on the floor:eek:

    On wouldn't I like to see that, Millan and Brad Pattinson wearing a shock collar. I have actually said, when watching, I would like to treat THEM the way they treat dogs, i.e. shock collars, kicks, yanks, prong collars etc. etc. and see how THEY liked it!!!!!!!!!!!
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  19. jackienmutts Honored Member

    That's one party I'd love to attend :eek::D altho dogs, being the pure, forgiving and loving spirits that they are, would insist that no, please use positive reinforcement on even Cesar, Brad and the like, no matter what they've tried on dogs. :love: *sigh*

    Mary, your house sounds much like mine. As I'm typing this, I'm sitting on the couch, laptop in my lap, with one very big GS girl sleeping next to me on the couch (and she has way more of it than I do!). :LOL: Alf is outside someplace, he loves laying outside each evening for a while, communing with the creatures of the night (or something - and yes, he's safely inside a fenced yard). But - he'll come wandering in at bedtime, and beat me to the bed. Each night I have to figure out where in the heck I'll squeeze in - usually both dogs are sacked out on my bed, and they don't leave me much room. :(:ROFLMAO: I guess the dog beds are always empty ... hmmm..... :LOL:

    As far as dogs and world domination (or even domination of my small universe here) - I keep waiting for the day when they run off to work so they can pay the mortgage and be totally in charge of everything ... the bills, the house, the food, the chores, etc. and I can finally be left home all day with the tv and a bowl of popcorn (figured that's the equivalent of the radio and a stuffed kong?). Don't see it happening. I keep hoping tho.... :LOL: :ROFLMAO:
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  20. MaryK Honored Member

    *sigh* yes Jackiemutts dogs would definitely say that, we can learn so much from their pure, forgiving and loving spirits, not a mean bone or a nasty thought in their wonderful minds:love:

    :ROFLMAO: Jackiemutts your house is definitely like mine:ROFLMAO: As I am typing, on the P.C. I have one cat asleep (as usual) in the 'in' tray, another attempting to help me type, Ra Kismet flopped on the floor and Zeus lying alongside:love: As it's a very small room, I have to ensure I don't move the office chair, tails and chairs on castors aren't a good mix:eek:

    Couch sharing is pretty much the same as in your house. Zeus takes up his 'spot' at one end, which he 'defends' against all possible takers. Ra Kismet either sits on my lap or squeezes in between us, which takes some doing, as it's only a two seater couch:ROFLMAO: I definitely have the least amount of space. Then one of the cats will decide she wants to move in too, but at least they go for the arms:LOL: It can be a bit competitive when the cats want my lap and Ra Kismet is already established. The cats generally move off wearing a rather snooty expression:LOL:

    As far as bedtime, Zeus always goes through his little 'ritual', asking to come under the duvet, just when I've finally managed to squeeze in alongside Rakins, who likes to lie in comfort with his head on ALL the pillows (not sure how he does it but I get one corner, if I'm lucky) Zeus then, after I lift up the duvet, trots all around the bed, comes back - it's rinse and repeat around three times, then FINALLY he decides to get up, moving my legs out the way of course, and settles down for approximately five minutes, then he's off again:D. I do manage some sleep and fortunately neither dog snores. Partner gives up the ghost and belays for the spare bed:giggle:. Then it's time for the cats to move in:D HRH tramps over Zeus, if he's still inside the bed, so he then does a shuffle HRH 'rolls" with the shuffle and all is calm, for a few seconds, until Maeve makes her entry. She's a little more 'delicate', if you exclude the loud MEOW I'M HERE, and will usually take up whatever space is still available. Yes, I do EVENTUALLY get to sleep, but not until after all the 'kids' are well settled in and sleeping peacefully:sleep: The dogs' beds?? Empty, have often thought maybe I should sleep in them...LOL I know my place....but then again, if I tried that I'd probably have all the tribe trying to share with me and that would kinda defeat the purpose and be even more of a squeeze. LOL don't you just LOVE them!!!!!!!

    Dreams, we all have them, I too dream of the day when the boys are paying all the bills. I did actually look to see if there was an animal casting agency here, there are several where I used to live, but sadly not here. Doubt the cats would make the cut, unless someone wanted a commercial of cats sleeping, but the dogs, hummm just maybe there may be a chance there:D They say 'hope springs eternal'. In the meantime, I too dream on, waiting for that moment when one of the boys brings home their first pay check, oh well, bank deposit I should say:D.
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