Tantrum Big Time Over Reaction

Discussion in 'Dog Behavior Problems' started by MaryK, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. MaryK Honored Member

    Ra Kismet is doing so well in EVERY respect:D However, we had a MAJOR tantrum when out walking:(. He was going well when just prior to turning the corner to come home, we're not far from the corner, he spotted another little dog coming up behind us. He wasn't too bad, not really good, but not really naughty, just kinda a bit pulling and hopeful. So I did the reverse but unfortunately I HAD RUN OUT OF TREATS:( so had to rely on "Good boy" "take it easy young man" etc.

    We made it round the corner without too much drama BUT the woman with the little white dog was catching us up FAST because we were not walking at normal speed.

    The rot set in when, despite being able to clearly see I was 'training' Ra Kismet and he was getting excited, she walked RIGHT UP BEHIND US (almost INTO us) then ALLOWED HER DOG, who was also PULLING to get alongside Ra Kismet. To make matter worse, Ra Kismet who thought he was going to do a 'meet and greet' suddenly found the woman had YANKED her dog into the road and crossed the street. It was like 'taking away his chance to meet and greet'.

    He went into OVERDRIVE TANTRUM. Leaped up BITING at the lead (and ACCIDENTLY bit my hand). It was NOT a good scene, he had been doing so well:cry:

    Just to help everyone, will explain about his reaction to other dogs in the street.

    Example 1. Walking along and a lady with TWO dogs suddenly came out of a driveway. We ALL jumped a bit as we almost collided BUT the lady stopped and Ra Kismet and her two dogs did a 'meet and greet' with him all was QUIET AND PEACEFUL with Ra Kismet trotting along VERY HAPPILY with her two dogs and when it came time to part, he went off with me quite contentedly - NO DRAMA.

    Example 2. Malamute Rescue dog "taking' his new Mom for a walk - we managed to get both our some what miscreant dogs past each other with just minor pulling on both sides. Did a 'meet and greet' and stopped to chat about our respective rescue boys:) Ra Kismet sat like an ANGEL so much so that the lass commented that 'we were further ahead than she was with training and that he was SUCH A GOOD BOY".

    Example 3. Neighbor has two dogs, one very good the other a yappy dog. The good one (toy poodle x) ran out onto the footpath but RA KISMET SAT DOWN and didn't make any fuss. Again comments on 'how good he was'.

    Example 4. Met Sasha in the street (now his play date when her owners are home on weekends). Her owner allowed 'meet and greet' and :LOL: apart from much lead tangling as they walked along all 'lovey dovey' he walked like an ANGEL.

    Sorry this is such a long post but am REALLY perplexed over his OVER REACTIONAL BEHAVOR AT TIMES.

    Seems he's a bit too keen to 'meet and greet' and acts like a spoiled child when he doesn't get the opportunity so to do. And when another dog looks like it (a) wants to 'meet and greet' and is then (b) yanked away right under his nose, it's more than the kid can take.

    Obviously this has to stop as I cannot be responsible for other dog owners and what they wish to do. Zeus my older dog just toddles along and doesn't take any notice at all. And I trained him, so I cannot be such a bad trainer. I admit I am wondering what on earth I've done wrong with Ra Kismet:unsure:O_o:confused: Plus partner keeps saying it's all my fault:(
    and refuses to help, as I suggested, by taking Zeus out with us so Ra Kismet can see how he reacts or rather doesn't react to other dogs.:(

    How can I stop this? It's now really, apart from 'tidying up' things, his ONLY REAL PROBLEM.

    He's getting much better, with the aid of click treat passing dogs barking inside fences, another thing which does set him off. A bit more work needed there but happy with his progress.

    We started with LAT only problem there is :LOL: still haven't found anything which REALLY catches his attention. He remains with eyes FIRMLY fixed on the treat bag:) Any suggestions on this matter also???

    When he goes into reactional overdrive he also develops 'tunnel vision' and 'selective hearing' it's like NOTHING else matters accept what HE wants - which is 'meet and greet'.

    I just kept 'hanging on' and saying Leave, Leave, Leave he did FINALLY leave but not before putting on a performance and a half:cry::( Once he was calm again I just walked home and didn't say anything.

    I don't want to spoil his niceness with other dogs BUT he needs to get the message that not all dogs, or maybe it should be their owners, want to do 'meet and greet'.

    It's almost as if he's TOO FRIENDLY.

    Again apologize for the long post but this is really perplexing me big timeO_o:confused::confused:
    MaryK, Today at 11:28 AM Report
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  2. Amateur Experienced Member

    If it truly is a tantrum I would put my foot on the leash ( for extra support- not to strangle ) and just stand there. period.
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  3. Amateur Experienced Member

    thats why I said to put your foot on the lead ... its slack when he is sitting or standing normally but wont let him jump.
    I guess silently because I dont think he is really listening at this point is he. when you see a change in his demeanour I.E. calms down a bit - ask him to sit in a calm voice and just wait.
    If you get excited trying to get him to stop this will only feed his tantrum behaviour. if you are calm he may eventually see that doing this gets him nothing - not even your attention.
    Dogster likes this.
  4. MaryK Honored Member

    Thank you didn't think to do that:)(y) It was a MASSIVE TANTRUM he played up big time. He can leap shoulder high and I am 5'5" and a bit, not tall but not short either. He's medium size but very strong, weighs only 21.5 kilos but muscled and very fit. He can jump like anything, in the right circumstances, and the wrong :LOL: leaped up on the dining table with ease just because 'he could', not for food, the table wasn't laid but hey it's fun to jump.
    But it's NOT fun when it's a tantrum jump and I'm trying to hang on with all my might.

    Foot on lead and SILENCE right??? Say nothing just stand there???

    I was so shaken, still am, I didn't take him out for a walk tonight, now I'm in the 'bad books':(
  5. Amateur Experienced Member

    No sure how others would handle it but at that precise moment you have to ensure you are both safe from harm and I cant imagine you can do much until he calms down.

    Would a squeaky toy get his attention ? something the "break" the moment ?

    I also wonder if you panicked a bit when you found you had no more treats left and he noticed this and reacted to you as well. You need the attitude that he is going to perform the rightway with or with out treats.
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  6. MaryK Honored Member

    Again thank you:) I did try to stay calm and keep the leave it to a level pitch, hopefully I did but FULLY understand what you're saying, it's exactly what I say to my partner when he gets all het up and yells when my boys get antsy with each other (Zeus is sick and a bit grumpy) I just keep an eye on them but basically ignore it and they both lay down. Maybe just a quiet off hand "oh do be quiet boys" - they are both listening to me though - which Ra Kismet ISN'T when in the throws of a full blown tantrum:(

    So I put my foot on the lead the minute I see/sense he's about to jump and play up. You're right, he's DEFINITELY NOT LISTENING TO ME AT ALL - so silence is the best way and yes, you're right again, one thing he HATES is me 'ignoring' him, so this should do the trick.

    Then when he's calmed down, I click/treat or praise if I've run out of treats, in a CALM MANNER not too "hey good boy" but calmly. Will also use the foot on lead, if it's correct so to do, when he plays up (this is abating a lot) when other dogs bark from behind fences.

    Can, as I've said FULLY see the wisdom of TOTALLY ignoring his tantrums. Just like humans, dogs HATE being ignored, especially by those they love:D

    I feel so much better now, hopefully I will not mess up with incorrect posting again. It really shook me up and I am not easily shaken. Just wanted to get on this forum and seek advice because all the advice given me so far has worked BIG TIME:D Don't know what I'd do without all of you:D
  7. MaryK Honored Member

    You're so right, there isn't much I CAN do when he throws a tantrum, he develops 'tunnel vision'.

    That's a good thought, squeaky toy, he doesn't have any at home because my partner cannot stand them but will get one for walks and see how that works. Will find the one with the loudest squeak as it's pretty noisy around here at times.

    No I didn't panic when I ran out of treats, I'm not a panicking person but I did say 'bother' then 'oh well you'll have to just be good' - famous last words:eek:

    Am also wondering if an incident a few days ago has made him worse, he's never been brilliant with passing other dogs without meet and greet.

    We were quietly walking along when a dog jumped the fence, didn't see it coming because of a low bushes. It first went for me and I MEAN full on it meant business then WENT STRAIGHT FOR RA KISMET"S THROAT. The only thing which saved both of us was Ra Kismet's leaping and twisting to get away from the attacking dog, we ended up in the middle of the road BEFORE the owner FINALLY came out - then just stood there SWEARING AT ME when I asked her to get her dog. Next door neighbors came out and said the dog had attacked them and other dogs. I DO NOT walk down that street any more.
  8. Amateur Experienced Member

    I am not totally sure standing on the leash etc is the best way but my first concern was to make sure you are both safe as I could see him dragging you into the street or making you fall.
    MaryK likes this.
  9. MaryK Honored Member

    I REALLY appreciate your concern, thank you that is so kind of you to care:)

    Fortunately in this tantrum he and when he tries to bite his lead, which he was doing this time BIG TIME he goes more UP AND DOWN than pulling out - the incident with the attacking dog was an exception. But yes, he is a strong laddie and it's not a good situation.

    I've only ever gone down once, not with Ra Kismet, with a German Shepherd he was a lot heavier at 35 kilos and that time I slipped on wet grass fortunately only a few scratches and a bruised elbow so I wasn't badly hurt. But with that in mind I avoid all wet grass now with Ra Kismet, just to be sure.
  10. jackienmutts Honored Member

    Busy week, am a bit behind in threads. Just read thru this whole thing. Yes, I'm sure that was unnerving - I've had a dog jump up like that before, and holy cow, you feel like you're dealing with a kangaroo! :eek:

    First - keep in mind that when a dog becomes that aroused/excited/anxious/over thresshold, it's not so much he was ignoring you, as he physically did not hear you anymore. Maybe you've heard that cute saying "talk to the paw, cuz the ears ain't listening" ? Well, it's cute, but it's true. They get so revved up that they truly can't hear you anymore, their brain is in a different place. So - what do you do about that ? O_o

    I have a few thoughts/questions. First, what do you walk him on? I'm thinking that until this is resolved (and it will take time) and to ensure that he doesn't pull you down, you may want to think about a front-clip harness (assuming you walk him just on his buckle collar) such as an Easy Walk Harness. It will give you more control once he starts to pull toward his goal (the new dog he wants to greet).

    Standing on the leash in a "park" position is a great idea, and in fact, you should practice this in the meantime, just during your normal walk. Just walk along, stop, wind a bit of leash around your hand, let the leash under his collar hit the ground, put one foot down, then put the other foot down about a foot away (a comfortable stance for you), then just stand there. He'll have a bit of room, he can stand, or sit, or lie down. It's a good exercise, should you meet someone on the street and decide to talk .... life is boring sometimes. It becomes habit for him to relax when your feet take that position on the leash. Just stand for a few minutes, ignore him (he doesn't need all your attention all the time :rolleyes: ) then move on. He'll soon figure it out. Just practice that. But - if you need to brace yourself, go for it -- both feet on his leash are a good way to keep him earthbound. So - practice "parking".

    As far as him meeting other dogs.... must he meet them all? I'm thinking he's so used to meeting them all, that when he doesn't get to, he's getting all bent out of shape. Just like above, life's boring sometimes, we don't always get what we want - and that includes getting to meet just everyone. He also seems high energy, and my bet is he wouldn't like sitting and watching another dog go by. Honestly, if someone were coming up fast behind me, I have a big mouth, and I'd have said something (like - keep your dog away, mine bites - or something equally as obnoxious! :mad:) -- I have a reactive GS who I'd be protecting from a meltdown. I just won't let anyone invade our space. How about now, treating Ra Kismet as a reactive dogs, and when you do see someone with a dog, just keep walking, but also just start feeding feeding feeding feeding him - see if you can hold his attention, talk to him, but be a treat dispenser? What would he do if you just kept feeding, would you be able to hold his attention? No time to look away (while you walk) - just feedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeed til you're past the other dog. Trust me, once he's seen the other dog, he'll still know they're there, but if you can hold his attention, he won't forget, but his arousal level won't rise. He'll remain calm, he'll be eating, he'll feel really good -and so will you. He obviously does well with other dogs, so that's not a problem. He needs to learn to stay calm when he sees them (for your sake, and his - his excitement could get him in trouble with the wrong dog some day). His being attacked by the dog who jumped the fence absolutely could affect his arousal level when he sees other dogs -- is he nice, is that dog gonna fight me, will that dog play with me, omg omg, I wonder, I wanna meet 'em but I wonder ....
    As for your partner saying this is all your fault - :rolleyes: - oh brother. I'll try to behave. :eek::confused: Please know that it's NOT your fault. From all you've said, you're doing a fabulous job with him, and all this will get sorted out. Ra Kismet is young and just needs to learn that he can't meet everyone, all the time - and that it's also not appropriate to throw tantrums when he doesn't get what he wants. :LOL: Saying it's all your fault is like saying it's any/all parents' fault for any/every time any child misbehaves :ROFLMAO: -- it's just gonna happen, and you then do your best to make it better, show kids how to do better, etc. Another thing to remember (and that you might want to remind your partner) - dogs have a whole set of rules in their world. We have a whole set of rules in our world. Thing is, we're asking dogs to live in our world, with our rules. Of course, our rules include leashes (none of those in a dogs' world), not running up to say 'hi' to everyone, etc. So - in Ra Kismet's world, he sounds very social and well-mannered. It's in our world and by our rules that he needs a bit of tweaking. :LOL:

    Not every thing works for every dog. Just have to figure out what works best for yours. He sounds so delightful and fun, just gotta find that magical combo that lets him know the proper time/place for fun and playdates, and that other times, life (and mom) says not right now.
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  11. MaryK Honored Member

    First THANK YOU Jackiemutts, you've summed up my boy PERFECTLY:D And yes he sure is HIGH OCTANE on the energy levels. I was told he's Belgian Shepherd single x but with what??? I personally am thinking 'Retriever - he loves water and those ears/tail or Border Collie is my second choice - the energy levels.

    Not sure how to get each part separately in a post so will reply by paragraphs:)

    First - I understand, I had the feeling that Ra Kismet didn't HEAR me at all, but wasn't sure. you've put me in the picture, because when he's NOT so wound up, he may 'ignore' me, like "hey Mom there's something interesting at the bottom of the garden" but I KNOW he's just be a bit 'naughty' (doesn't happen often now:)). With this problem I did have the distinct (gut?) feeling that he was 'totally lost to whatever I did or said". Much more understanding on that score, thank you so much:D No I haven't heard that expression before, it really does some up Ra Kismet when he's throwing a tantrum and it's cute, will not forget it:D

    I was walking him on a Halti and must say he was a LOT easier to control/manage on that, although he did slip out of the Halti on one occasion, maybe two, I know once because we were close to home, so without a word, I just turned and took him back home - no treats, ignored him TOTALLY. But having read that Halti are akin to slip/choker/ collars, I put him back on a soft leather buckle collar. The awful dog school insisted on slip collars, I did change to a martingale which is a bit softer but THAT seemed to be just as bad as a slip - he HATED it and I don't blame him either! To be honest, with the Halti he actually SEEMED TO ENJOY IT MORE and the first time he was fitted at the pet market, they were totally amazed at how he reacted, or rather did NOT react. They actually said they had never seen a dog 'take' to a Halti so quickly and he did Jackiemutts. Although I had bought treats they gave me a huge load for 'walking home' just in case he changed his mind once we were out on the street. He got the lot but honestly, he was sooooooooo good on the Halti. I will, acting on your advice, either change back to the Halti or buy him a front clip harness, haven't used one before but as you recommend them, know they are safe for my boy:).

    Parking: that is something I haven't known or seen before, will definitely practice that as he does get impatient life is so boring when Mom stops to chat and I don't get any attention:p It usually results in the 'understanding' other person saying 'he wants to get going' and me replying 'yes but he'll do it in my time not his':). O.k the boys a bit spoiled, well a lot spoiled, but I do like to make sure he behaves nicely - just as my Mom did with me - good manners were important. We'll start on parking immediately. Find a nice shady tree and park for a minute or too. Ignoring him will take self control on my part:) because I do talk to him a lot BUT I'll do ANYTHING to ensure Ra Kismet learns to be a well mannered dog, so mouth shut, ignore him. You're right again, he does seem to want my attention ALL the time. At home though, if I ignore him, when say I'm painting my nails and just cannot pat etc. he quickly 'gets the message' and goes and flops down (with a huge sigh sometimes) end of story. He does learn VERY quickly, so we'll practice parking when it's quiet and I am sure he'll quickly get the message:)

    Meeting other dogs: You're right Jackiemutts, he doesn't have to meet them all. What has happened here is basically two fold. I take FULL responsibility for this happening.

    First he missed puppy pre-school because by the time my vets had enough pups to run the school, he was 'too old' so I guess to 'compensate' for his lack of socialization as a youngster, I allowed him to 'meet and greet' other dogs. Coupled with the fact he was born wild (in the streets of a very small town) and we think he lost most of his litter mates, Mom was caught with just Ra Kismet and another little girl, he didn't have the 'normal' play etc. that other puppies have. His Mom, with babies in tow, had to survive in the wild, so I made the mistake of 'over compensating' maybe putting too much of a human element into it all. Missing siblings etc.

    Second: Not bragging here but he truly was the cutest little puppy. I've had pups before, Zeus and Tiger Lily attracted attention but never as Ra Kismet did and STILL does. Some how he's never lost the 'cute puppy' look - in fact people still think he's a really young puppy:) So everyone every where wanted to pat him (with or without dogs in tow) and fraid I allowed them too. So in HIS mind he should be allowed to greet everyone:confused: and now doesn't understand that it's not always appropriate:confused::(. Will walk on by now, I know it's not always appropriate to greet everyone and now he has to understand that too.

    I normally have a big mouth too especially where animals are concerned but have been a bit more 'cautious' round here as half the population seem to think ALL dogs are savage and especially after the incident, just recently, shown in all it's horrifying gory details on the news where a small dog was savaged by a bigger dog - no details here it'll set me off crying had to switch off t.v. But I will say something - like 'don't get too close he'll get over excited' or something like that VERY FIRMLY!!!!!!!!! I'll not allow others to invade our space. Will treat Ra Kismet as a reactive dog, well he is in this area, not a nasty one but brother reactive to the max!!!!!!!!! Will load up with the treats big time and keep feeding/feeding/feeding - he loves his treats and I have found that feeding/feeding/feeding gets us past dogs behind fences. I can hold his attention with those dogs, so will work hard when we see other dogs in the street, even if they are the other side of the road and he's reacting but not nearly so badly - get him focused on ME and the TREATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot say for sure at this point that I WILL be able to hold his attention but brother am I going to become the biggest treat dispenser ever. Oh Jackiemutts I feel so much better that there is hope for my boy:D Yes he's be a lot worse since the attack by the other dog that's for sure. I'm not a nervous or panicky person but I was shaking like a leaf (cannot recall the last time I shook like that) neighbors got me water and checked Ra Kismet over for me while I took some deep breathes. I think Ra Kismet recovered faster, physically, than I did but mentally it's left it's mark, on both of us I feel, it's the worst thing that has EVER happened to me when walking a dog anywhere in the world, never had that happen before. I can understand exactly what you're saying about how my boy views other dogs now - poor darling.

    He's really good with other dogs that's for sure he's not dog aggressive at all. In fact his vet, sadly in Scotland now, adores him so much we had to pay 'social visits' because his vet missed him so much and suffered Ra Kismet withdrawal symptoms, he even wanted to take him back to Scotland with him Once there was a small poodle and it barked at Ra Kismet in a friendly manner but I held Ra Kismet's attention by showing off his tricks and he was soooooo well behaved. Seems it's the street where the problem occurs. On that occasion I just said to him "hey you're a pro" and we went into our tricks, on the lead that time of course, rules of the surgery:) He puts up with Zeus being a bit 'grumpy' at times too, no aggression, more 'puppy yowls' which come out a bit weird as LOL he's not that young, his bark has 'broken':D

    Don't hold back about my partner, we fight like anything over dog training - he's into the 'dominance' training learned from you know who and actually ALPHA ROLLED Ra Kismet when he was very little, puppy biting BIG TIME and EXPECTED ME TO DO THE SAME - the ensuing row was MEGA HUGE, partner STILL thinks dominance is the way to train but I'm slowly but surely training him that it's not going to be that way with MY DOGS.

    Thank you (((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))) for saying it's not my fault. You've made me feel SO MUCH BETTER have been worried sick, literally!!!!!!!!!! Felt so sick in the stomach I couldn't sleep the last few nights, as I would HATE to think I had done something so wrong to my baby boy and caused this problem he has. Will find the right opportunity to try to explain to partner all you've said and pray he gets the message.
    To know it will all be sorted is such a comfort. Ra Kismet is a wonderful boy, yes LOL I know the saying "There is only one great dog in the world and he's mine" but truly, if you met my boy, you'd understand just how loving, caring and beautiful he is and how I want him to have and be the very best doggy around town.

    Again, thank you have read and reread everything and will put it all into practice.:D
    Dogster likes this.
  12. Evie Experienced Member

    posted this earlier but on the wrong thread :$

    Mary - we can work on this together if you want. If you find any good suggestions, Evie and I will happily (Well Evie might not enjoy it so much), help by walking past .. time and time again so that you have an opportunity to train Ra in a controlled environment :)

    Other than this, sorry, don't really have much to add :(

    Good luck!
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  13. MaryK Honored Member

    Thank you Evie, have just sent you a p.m. - I inadvertently posted in the wrong forum - see Dog Behavior Problems were jackiemutts has replied = working with Evie (poor lassie she'll deserve HUGE treats) in a controlled environment, putting into practice what Jackiemutts has advised would be fantastic:D
  14. Amateur Experienced Member

    I never heard that about the Halti ?!?!
  15. curls139 Well-Known Member

    Mary K you sound like you are doing so well with Ra Kismet - your an inspiration how you have helped him :). Russell has developed unsurity and I'm sad to say I think it is through a number of encounters like your dog rushing the fence. We sent him to 'Daycare' which is pretty easy going - lately he's been returning more super anxious and 'on alert' on walks even when hearing a dog bark in the distance. Our first walk after getting back from Daycare, Russ seemed so anxious (hackles up at everything and alert) so aimed to avoid other dogs, keep it calm and regain Russ' attention with exercises. This walk was one of our worst for other dogs rushing Russ from behind fences..culminating in this:
    Just going home, Russ calming down, noticed two young girls (don't know if you have 'chavs' in america) far away with two pulling yorkshire terriers with pink coats on extendable leads. Walked fast in completely opposite direction to them as it would be far too much for Russ to pass them AT ALL and they did not look under control. Girls could see both me and Russ and noticed him looking back at their dogs. Were walking back accross a field a different way home, next thing both dogs were off lead RUSHED Russell barking and snapping. Russell got very anxious, lunging and trying to get away simultaneously with tail between his legs. Everytime we tried to walk from them they followed and continued to jump and bark at Russ. This continued for AT LEAST 3 MINUTES with no sign of the girls, myself, Russ and these two off lead dogs in the middle of the field. I thought about letting Russell of the lead and then thought better of it. Girls came very slowly into the field and I called 'please could you put your dogs on a lead' *no response* ".......what?" "PUT your dogs on a lead" (dogs were continuing to 'get at' Russ). Then came abuse from the girls to me culminating in one of them shouting "ignorant b***'.

    In the field I wept. Another time where I couldn't protect Russ, and the shock of the incident so I completely get where you are coming from Mary K with being shook up at least. And I do believe that these incidents have affected Russ at least; in Daycare - scuffles and disagreements with other dogs that he has to sort out by himself, incidents as above, dogs getting too close to Russ making him WAAAY above threshold. We are now back to square one, maybe even worse. Pre this last stretch at Daycare we were looking at other dogs calmly 10 to 15 feet and less and even had a playmate.

    But please know that you are not giving up on Ra Kismet and sound like you have brought him so far already...hopefully he has enough positive experiences of being around dogs to outweigh the negatives you have experienced. Advice I had due to Staffie's ability to pull 30 times their weight which might help

    -Plant your feet and at all times 'be ready'- 'seeing' which direction the dog will lunge/jump ie. usually forward/wherever the other dogs are. When stopped have a wide stance. (Mary K and Ra Kismet seem a little more advanced than the risk of lunging at every dog)

    -When walking (on a normal 6ft lead and buckle collar) if dog is walking on your right side put lead in your left hand and plant firmly on your navel/near your body. Right hand can then be used for treating.

    -When dog goes to lunge place right hand on top of left hand (both hands are now in centre of body) so that you can use your body weight to control the dog rather than just arms/shoulders *takes flailing arms and shoulders out of the equation*. Then with your feet planted when you even see the dog making the decision to not be calm and stay by you (Russ takes a couple of steps and begins to 'lock on'), turn by swivelling and taking weight off back leg and walk away firmly with both hands in centre of body so your body weight is turning the dog. This seems to work for us as it cuts out the yo-yo-ing of lunging/jumping and pulling back, lunging and pulling back. And the dog knows that he's gone too far with exitement/ arousal and "we are turning away from the other dog *thing that you want to look at* now"

    -The left hand hold with the lead is good because at all times you are ready with arms to be locked into your body for the 'emergency' times when a dog comes too close around a corner or rushes behind a fence to turn your dog the other way so that your dog can't pull you over and 'take your arm with them'.

    I have been pulled over by Russ (only once on a muddy grass slide) when the lead has been wound around my wrist or arm as he 'had' my centre of gravity and took my arm with him and the rest of me on the floor with the lead still tangled around my arm (a dog rusuhed from my blind spot up to Russ).

    Hope this is helpful, it helps me when walking so that I can be ready for emergencies and know I can control Russ but Russ also feels the lead is loose and relaxed when he is heel walking. All I need to do is put my right hand on top of my left and I'm readyto turn! This might help just as a loose lead walking stance without turning if you already have another method.
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  16. MaryK Honored Member

    Gentle Leader - you may know it by that name. It's like a horses halter.
  17. MaryK Honored Member

    Thank you so much Curls:X3: OMG I can feel for you so much:X3: Russell is a beautiful dog, just look at that sweet face, I adore Staffies:love: I am so VERY happy he has such a wonderful owner, you're also a credit to him for rescuing him. And working with him, I just KNOW he'll recover, he loves you so much, you can see that in his face. His look is one of pure love. Big ((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))) to Russ (and yourself:)).

    I'm English LOL currently living in Australia so I know about Chavs:( I can well understand why you cried, so sad. And they abused you too - I got f....off you b.... and what the f...... it's only a dog. But Russ and you had a MUCH worse experience too ghastly to contemplate. It makes me mad that people can be sooooooo irresponsible then the DOGS get blamed:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: That's why I did not report the dog which attacked Ra Kismet and myself and I told the woman why, and also suggested, politely but with 'bite' that she get her dog (almost added and herself) some professional help BEFORE someone DID report the dog.

    Was considering putting Ra Kismet into Day Care for one day a week but rethinking after what you've said about Russell. It doesn't sound like it has helped him at all.

    Phew!!!! Knew Staffies were strong but never realized they were THAT strong the 'shires' of the dog world:D:rolleyes:! Gorgeous adore Shires too:D

    Your advice on how to hold the lead is excellent. Ra Kismet walks left side so will just use the right hand for holding the lead and left for treating. Actually, have been pacing up and down the room 'practicing' sans dog and lead of course, muttering right hand lead hold on navel, clamp left hand onto right hand, arms locked into body down at navel height and TURN walk away so it's imbedded in my head. I can see EXACTLY how this would take the *flailing arms and pull on the shoulders* at out contention, which is really super for me as my arms are my weakest body part. Ra Kismet doesn't give over much warning he moves SUPER FAST but with that hold, I'll be 'ready' and I'm always on the watch for other dogs. He's not too bad, just a bit of pulling and that WAS diminishing with dogs the other side of the road in fact, he was almost as quiet as Russ, just looking nothing untoward. Until the last 'incident'. Now we're also back to square one.

    Evie so very kindly has offered to help me and we're meeting tomorrow (Sunday) at the Pooch Park. Going to 'ignore' each other, not let the dogs meet and she will walk Evie up and down, disappear, re-appear at a 'other side of the road' distance and hopefully, we can work to getting closer. A 'play it by ear' situation.

    Both Russ and Ra Kismet will make it - watch out world - two SUPER GOOD DOGS coming your way:D:D:D

    Again thank you and I do feel so much for what has happened to Russ and you, makes my problem seem so small.
    Dogster likes this.
  18. MaryK Honored Member

    slightly mis-read, sorry, yes in the Therapy Dog Guide they put Halti into the same category as slip/choke chains, chain leads, harnesses etc.
  19. MaryK Honored Member

    LOL:ROFLMAO: tomorrow am taking Ra Kismet's ENTIRE dinner meal with me for treats - so I DON'T run out. Using all these tactics, feeding/feeding/feeding/ holding the lead so I don't get pulled over Evie's physical assistance - I am CERTAIN we can get him right:D
    Dogster and Evie like this.
  20. Evie Experienced Member

    YAYAYAY!!!! Should be fun. Well fun for me. Hopefully should be a good experience for both you and Ra lol.
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