Invisible Boundaries
- Thread starter tigerlily46514
- Start date
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
Interesting, last night, i had my family do the cues "yard" (Buddy has to stay on grass)
and "Release" Buddy can now leave the grass.
Interesting thing was, Buddy seemed perplexed at first, by anyone but ME giving the cues, as if he had no idea what the words meant!!
but, within a few minutes, Buddy was able to translate my family saying exact same words, to when i say exact same words....was funny. there is a handcue, too, for "release" which is left fist held down, and even when my family did the hand cue, and said "release" Buddy just sat there staring at them blankly.
(well, at first he did, then he "got it" though, a few minutes later).
We must have looked like nutz,
we stood across the street, and called out random words to Buddy, which Buddy ignored,
til we said "release" and then, Buddy ran over to us.
He got big prizes for ignoring us calling "spaghetti" and "mailbox" and other random words to him...........as those are NOT the right word to leave his yard, and he knew it.
we are NOT using the word "come" for him to leave the yard, cuz, i am just confused about that, and do not want to do anything to mess up his recall in any way.
and "Release" Buddy can now leave the grass.
Interesting thing was, Buddy seemed perplexed at first, by anyone but ME giving the cues, as if he had no idea what the words meant!!
but, within a few minutes, Buddy was able to translate my family saying exact same words, to when i say exact same words....was funny. there is a handcue, too, for "release" which is left fist held down, and even when my family did the hand cue, and said "release" Buddy just sat there staring at them blankly.
(well, at first he did, then he "got it" though, a few minutes later).We must have looked like nutz,
we stood across the street, and called out random words to Buddy, which Buddy ignored, til we said "release" and then, Buddy ran over to us. He got big prizes for ignoring us calling "spaghetti" and "mailbox" and other random words to him...........as those are NOT the right word to leave his yard, and he knew it.
we are NOT using the word "come" for him to leave the yard, cuz, i am just confused about that, and do not want to do anything to mess up his recall in any way.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
you know, the more i mull over,
why Buddy didn't respond to my family doing the release cue,
is, i wonder,
if i had trained Buddy to think he can only leave the grass if *i* tell him it's okay, cuz i was only one training him, see? so mayyyybe, Buddy got idea "i have to stay on grass unless MOM releases me".....who knows?
cuz he did sit there, and ignore my family giving release cue, til i told him it was okay, and once he did leave grass to family cues, and got praised for THAT, then he got idea, "ohhhh, anyone saying 'release' is good enough, not just only mom."
I had previously heavily rewarded Buddy for NOT leaving his grass to check out passersby, even people he knew in the neighborhood going by, he got rewarded for staying on grass while they walked by............ That might have further contributed to Buddy's original idea, "only mom" can release me off of the grass....??
who knows, but, it was an interesting moment, watching how my dog thinks.
why Buddy didn't respond to my family doing the release cue,
is, i wonder,
if i had trained Buddy to think he can only leave the grass if *i* tell him it's okay, cuz i was only one training him, see? so mayyyybe, Buddy got idea "i have to stay on grass unless MOM releases me".....who knows?
cuz he did sit there, and ignore my family giving release cue, til i told him it was okay, and once he did leave grass to family cues, and got praised for THAT, then he got idea, "ohhhh, anyone saying 'release' is good enough, not just only mom."
I had previously heavily rewarded Buddy for NOT leaving his grass to check out passersby, even people he knew in the neighborhood going by, he got rewarded for staying on grass while they walked by............ That might have further contributed to Buddy's original idea, "only mom" can release me off of the grass....??
who knows, but, it was an interesting moment, watching how my dog thinks.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
see, i am sort of trying to strive for,
a sort of "default" stay in the front yard,
and am now focusing more and more on his release cue,
as something important, so Buddy gets concept "i ALWAYS stay on grass unless i am released"
instead of "i stay on grass when i am told to stay on grass"
if that makes sense......
i still doubt i will ever ever reach the day when a bunny won't ruin the whole idea!! Buddy has however, stayed in his grass for dogs going by his house, though...which is fairly remarkable, since he loathes most unknown dogs.
a sort of "default" stay in the front yard,
and am now focusing more and more on his release cue,
as something important, so Buddy gets concept "i ALWAYS stay on grass unless i am released"
instead of "i stay on grass when i am told to stay on grass"
if that makes sense......
i still doubt i will ever ever reach the day when a bunny won't ruin the whole idea!!
Buddy has however, stayed in his grass for dogs going by his house, though...which is fairly remarkable, since he loathes most unknown dogs.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
i now think, i will i have to change the hand cue to something less common, an accidental left fist held down would be easy for my dog to mistake....someone can make that signal sheerly by accident.
I wanted a hand cue so he can see it from a distance, too...i now have to think up a new hand cue, poor Buddy! he will have to learn a whole new hand cue.
i am running out of hand cues.
I wanted a hand cue so he can see it from a distance, too...i now have to think up a new hand cue, poor Buddy!
he will have to learn a whole new hand cue.i am running out of hand cues.
648117
Honored Member
Holly doesn't respond to other people giving her cues very well either. She does it much slower for other people and they sometimes have to repeat commands. And if I'm standing nearby then Holly will look at me before she does what the other person asked.
I would actually prefer it if other family members didn't try to give her commands because I have cought them getting it wrong and then rewarding Holly for the wrong thing.
(eg "spin" = anti-clockwise, "twirl" = clockwise, but I have seen my mum rewarding her for going anti-clockwise when she said "twirl", and that explained why it took Holly so long to distinguish the two cues and she still sometimes gets it wrong).
I would actually prefer it if other family members didn't try to give her commands because I have cought them getting it wrong and then rewarding Holly for the wrong thing.
(eg "spin" = anti-clockwise, "twirl" = clockwise, but I have seen my mum rewarding her for going anti-clockwise when she said "twirl", and that explained why it took Holly so long to distinguish the two cues and she still sometimes gets it wrong).
southerngirl
Honored Member
Missy doesn't really respond to anyone but me because I trained her everything. Sometimes my friend gets frustrated when she can't get her to do a trick than she goes and does it for me so I have to explain to her that it's not that she doesn't like her it's just because I taught her it. I get mad when someone in my family tries to get her to do tricks cause they will say it over and over so I worry the word will not work anymore
so I ask them not to.
so I ask them not to.
Evie
Experienced Member
I thought the idea when training invisible barriers was to not use any cues either verbal or hand during training so that the 'not crossing the barrier' become second nature to the dog rather than something they only do on command. No point having a barrier in the front yard if you're not home and your dog gets out and goes 'well mum didn't say i can't cross that line....'
I watched a fair few videos on invisible barriers when Evie was jumping the fence daily to get into the front yard but never did do any training on it. But I liked kikopupsmethod on training (pretty sure it was her vid) , how she had her line and began by walking next to the dog and stopping at the line , then click and treating. Slowly but surely she took more steps forward and over the line while the dog stopped at the line, until it becomes second nature for the dog not to cross the line unless invited.
Anywayyyyyyyyyyyy, sounds like you're doing a great job with buddy and I just wish I had the time/patience to teach such things lol.
Evie hasnt learnt invisible barriers as such, but she will only walk out the front door when invited, same thing for exiting the car. She will stay sitting/laying in the car until i invite her out (because that's what she was taught as a pup). I didn't want a dog which would be trying to push through me to get out of the car lol.
I watched a fair few videos on invisible barriers when Evie was jumping the fence daily to get into the front yard but never did do any training on it. But I liked kikopupsmethod on training (pretty sure it was her vid) , how she had her line and began by walking next to the dog and stopping at the line , then click and treating. Slowly but surely she took more steps forward and over the line while the dog stopped at the line, until it becomes second nature for the dog not to cross the line unless invited.
Anywayyyyyyyyyyyy, sounds like you're doing a great job with buddy and I just wish I had the time/patience to teach such things lol.
Evie hasnt learnt invisible barriers as such, but she will only walk out the front door when invited, same thing for exiting the car. She will stay sitting/laying in the car until i invite her out (because that's what she was taught as a pup). I didn't want a dog which would be trying to push through me to get out of the car lol.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
//"I thought the idea when training invisible barriers was to not use any cues either verbal or hand during training so that the 'not crossing the barrier' become second nature to the dog rather than something they only do on command"//
Evie, you might be right. i am sort of figuring this out as i go along, and am using the kikopup video to figure this out....i have just recently shifted to focusing only on his release word, in an attempt to teach Buddy sort of a default "stay on the grass" ....i could be making mistakes along the way, not sure, was sort of hoping someone else here would have taught this cue, to guide me a bit,
but, i am mostly just figuring it out as i go....(which has backfired for me in the past )
THE VIDEOS I AM WORKING OFF OF, ARE ON PAGE ONE!!!
Evie, you might be right. i am sort of figuring this out as i go along, and am using the kikopup video to figure this out....i have just recently shifted to focusing only on his release word, in an attempt to teach Buddy sort of a default "stay on the grass" ....i could be making mistakes along the way, not sure, was sort of hoping someone else here would have taught this cue, to guide me a bit,
but, i am mostly just figuring it out as i go....(which has backfired for me in the past
)THE VIDEOS I AM WORKING OFF OF, ARE ON PAGE ONE!!!
Pawtential Unleashed
Experienced Member
Hmmmm - sortof. Inside the house the dogs have a room boundary - especially Kitchen - and if I ask for "All dogs OUT" - all dogs must leave the room. Ayla, Knoxx and for the most part Luka have a great default "Out of the Kitchen" and the pups are learning.
Outside - I teach "In Your Yard" which basically means just that - stay in your yard - but it is cue based and not a default.
Outside - I teach "In Your Yard" which basically means just that - stay in your yard - but it is cue based and not a default.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
//"if I ask for "All dogs OUT" - all dogs must leave the room."//
THAT'S gotta be cute to see! rofl!!
Buddy is rarely rarely underfoot, he is just naturally that way, but, if i ever do need him to be over there or whatever, i can put him there and he'll stay there, if i say "stay"
or, if i don't add in "stay" he is free to wander off,and generally gets idea i don't want him where he just was.
for example, we are painting garage ceiling, and Buddy was getting a few drops of paint on him, so i moved him, and he did not return to his previous spot....such a smart dog, imo.
THAT'S gotta be cute to see! rofl!!
Buddy is rarely rarely underfoot, he is just naturally that way, but, if i ever do need him to be over there or whatever, i can put him there and he'll stay there, if i say "stay"
or, if i don't add in "stay" he is free to wander off,and generally gets idea i don't want him where he just was.
for example, we are painting garage ceiling, and Buddy was getting a few drops of paint on him, so i moved him, and he did not return to his previous spot....such a smart dog, imo.
Mutt
Experienced Member
well actually I'm working on it right now with Boef. She sometimes sneeks out of the yard when someone leaves the fence open (which all the familymembers know to close, but sometimes a visitor forgets 
). so just in case I want to teach her this. although I have to say that since we live in the woods, there isn't much danger and Boef is easily recalled to the yard.
). so just in case I want to teach her this. although I have to say that since we live in the woods, there isn't much danger and Boef is easily recalled to the yard.
Amateur
Experienced Member
My old dogs knew what " OUT of the kitchen " meant -- worked very well
The new dogs ... not so much ... they sneak back in and like to lay right behind my feet.
Must work on it some more.
As for yard Boundaries, with my old dogs I could never do it ... oh they were pretty good, but if they saw someone they liked like the neighbour guy who squealed like a little girl at Whiskey's affection, she'd be across the street in a flash b4 I knew it . Fencing in the backyard was the best I did for my sanity. But I understand why you guys are training this.
The new dogs ... not so much ... they sneak back in and like to lay right behind my feet.
Must work on it some more.
As for yard Boundaries, with my old dogs I could never do it ... oh they were pretty good, but if they saw someone they liked like the neighbour guy who squealed like a little girl at Whiskey's affection, she'd be across the street in a flash b4 I knew it . Fencing in the backyard was the best I did for my sanity. But I understand why you guys are training this.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
I should update this,
by now,
buddy sort of has a default "i stay in my yard"
until i say "release".
This seems to work wayyyyyyyyyyyy better for me, than for other family members. For other family members, Budd does not necessarily stay on his own grass if i am not there.
bummer. But if i am present, Budd stays on his grass. I must have done something wrong, or, i will have to involve the family more in this training...
I still have not tested this against bunnies, and doubt it would hold. It has held when his doggie pals went by, Buddy ran to edge of yard, and whined and whined til owner of his doggie pal brought their dog up into our yard for dogs to play a while.
i have not tested it against unknown dogs, as i think that could be risky, cuz if my dog-aggresive dog decided to have a go at the unknown dog, well, that's not cool, so i haven't tried it, and never will. If we are working on this, and an unknown dog is coming along, i leash up Buddy for a "desensitization" lesson.
by now,
buddy sort of has a default "i stay in my yard"
until i say "release".
This seems to work wayyyyyyyyyyyy better for me, than for other family members. For other family members,
Budd does not necessarily stay on his own grass if i am not there.bummer. But if i am present, Budd stays on his grass.
I must have done something wrong, or, i will have to involve the family more in this training...I still have not tested this against bunnies, and doubt it would hold. It has held when his doggie pals went by, Buddy ran to edge of yard, and whined and whined til owner of his doggie pal brought their dog up into our yard for dogs to play a while.
i have not tested it against unknown dogs, as i think that could be risky, cuz if my dog-aggresive dog decided to have a go at the unknown dog, well, that's not cool, so i haven't tried it, and never will. If we are working on this, and an unknown dog is coming along, i leash up Buddy for a "desensitization" lesson.
southerngirl
Honored Member
That's great that it works for you.
For the family you should have them work with him on this cause some dogs go "mom taught me this so it only applies when she is around" so if everyone works on this with him he will dog for them to. Missy does the same thing with my family they try to tell her to do something and she will not listen until I tell her.
For the family you should have them work with him on this cause some dogs go "mom taught me this so it only applies when she is around" so if everyone works on this with him he will dog for them to. Missy does the same thing with my family they try to tell her to do something and she will not listen until I tell her.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
SG, i think your idea is RIGHT!!
Mr-Remington
Experienced Member
I want to teach this to Remi, but since we live of a busy street, I'm thinking of just teaching him not leave the back yard when the gate is open for the daycare drop offs and pick ups. Also need kitchen boundaries when family is over and eating, since he just learned how to beg for food. Everyone thinks its fun to feed the adorable barking puppy. 
Gordykins
Experienced Member
I would be afraid to try this.
Maybe I'm just a big baby... but every time I watched her do something that might make a dog want to go out into the street I was nervous. I would feel so TERRIBLE if I was trying to train this with Gordy, and he stepped onto the street at the wrong time Plus, I kind of feel as though it is silly to say any dog has any behavior down 100% ever. I would never feel brave enough to throw a frisbee in the street in hopes that Gordy had learned an invisible boundary, no matter how great of a job he may seem to do. You never know when just the right distraction might come along at just the wrong time. I'd never ever ever forgive myself if something bad happened to Gordy all because I thought I could trust an invisible boundary rather than put his leash on him to go out in the yard. It makes me feel awful just to think about it
Sigh
... I'm a chicken.
On the plus side, Gordy knows that he can't go out any door without permission. Though I've never practiced that without a leash on... because WHAT IF for whatever reason he decides that even though he's stayed inside until given permission 10,000 times, he decides on the 10,001st time that there is a good reason to run out?
Also on the plus side, Gordy has a pretty fantastic recall... so if he should somehow get away from me, I can have a great deal of confidence that he will come back. But still... even if I can say that he's been 100% reliable on his recall since he's learned it, I don't feel as though I can say he always will be, no matter what may happen.
Growing up, I had a Golden Retriever who "knew the boundaries" of our yard. for years and years and years she stayed in the yard. One year when it had snowed, my mom was shoveling snow, and my brothers and I were playing with our Golden outside. This dog who had ALWAYS always stayed in the yard, no matter what was going on, for some reason bolted from our back yard past our front yard, out to the road and in front of a truck!!! She got hit, and she was hurt really bad. It was the first time I'd ever seen a dog injured so badly. She just whimpered and whimpered. My brothers, my mom, and I were devastated. We loved our dog so much, and we felt so guilty that our sweet best BEST friend was hurt. We heard our mom that evening talking on the phone saying that she didn't know where we'd get the money to pay for the surgery our golden would need to fix her leg. I was 8, so my brothers were each a couple of years younger than me, and we all agreed, then told our mom, that even though Christmas was just around the corner, we didn't want anybody: not mom, not relatives, not even SANTA himself to get us ANYTHING. We wanted our doggie to be better, so we wanted any money that would have been spent on our presents to go to our girl's surgery. I remember that being a LOT for my 8 year old self... so maybe I'm just always going to be afraid of another accident like that happening. Our golden girl got her surgery, and was okay, but we never let any dogs free in an unfenced area ever again.
I do see the pluses for training this, but I just don't think this is a safe way to keep a dog confined to an area.
Maybe I'm just a big baby... but every time I watched her do something that might make a dog want to go out into the street I was nervous. I would feel so TERRIBLE if I was trying to train this with Gordy, and he stepped onto the street at the wrong time
Plus, I kind of feel as though it is silly to say any dog has any behavior down 100% ever. I would never feel brave enough to throw a frisbee in the street in hopes that Gordy had learned an invisible boundary, no matter how great of a job he may seem to do. You never know when just the right distraction might come along at just the wrong time. I'd never ever ever forgive myself if something bad happened to Gordy all because I thought I could trust an invisible boundary rather than put his leash on him to go out in the yard. It makes me feel awful just to think about it Sigh
... I'm a chicken. On the plus side, Gordy knows that he can't go out any door without permission. Though I've never practiced that without a leash on... because WHAT IF for whatever reason he decides that even though he's stayed inside until given permission 10,000 times, he decides on the 10,001st time that there is a good reason to run out?
Also on the plus side, Gordy has a pretty fantastic recall... so if he should somehow get away from me, I can have a great deal of confidence that he will come back. But still... even if I can say that he's been 100% reliable on his recall since he's learned it, I don't feel as though I can say he always will be, no matter what may happen.
Growing up, I had a Golden Retriever who "knew the boundaries" of our yard. for years and years and years she stayed in the yard. One year when it had snowed, my mom was shoveling snow, and my brothers and I were playing with our Golden outside. This dog who had ALWAYS always stayed in the yard, no matter what was going on, for some reason bolted from our back yard past our front yard, out to the road and in front of a truck!!! She got hit, and she was hurt really bad. It was the first time I'd ever seen a dog injured so badly. She just whimpered and whimpered. My brothers, my mom, and I were devastated. We loved our dog so much, and we felt so guilty that our sweet best BEST friend was hurt. We heard our mom that evening talking on the phone saying that she didn't know where we'd get the money to pay for the surgery our golden would need to fix her leg. I was 8, so my brothers were each a couple of years younger than me, and we all agreed, then told our mom, that even though Christmas was just around the corner, we didn't want anybody: not mom, not relatives, not even SANTA himself to get us ANYTHING. We wanted our doggie to be better, so we wanted any money that would have been spent on our presents to go to our girl's surgery. I remember that being a LOT for my 8 year old self... so maybe I'm just always going to be afraid of another accident like that happening.
Our golden girl got her surgery, and was okay, but we never let any dogs free in an unfenced area ever again.I do see the pluses for training this, but I just don't think this is a safe way to keep a dog confined to an area.
Evie
Experienced Member
Eep!!
I think you'd have a heart attack at my place. We don't have a single fence..... Evie is only ever on lead when we're walking down the street or something similar to that, and even then I ask her to get out of the car and to 'wait' and then I put her lead on her...
And you're really going to hate this, but we play with a basketball out the front of my parents house with Evie, and my parent's front yard slopes down towards the road. The ball regularly rolls onto the street (must admit, it's not a very busy street) but Evie knows not to follow it onto the road, she stops once she see's that it's going onto the road and looks at us as if to say "well aren't you going to bring me my ball back?" So in that respect, she does know invisible boundaries, even though we never consciously taught them to her..
I think you'd have a heart attack at my place. We don't have a single fence..... Evie is only ever on lead when we're walking down the street or something similar to that, and even then I ask her to get out of the car and to 'wait' and then I put her lead on her...
And you're really going to hate this, but we play with a basketball out the front of my parents house with Evie, and my parent's front yard slopes down towards the road. The ball regularly rolls onto the street (must admit, it's not a very busy street) but Evie knows not to follow it onto the road, she stops once she see's that it's going onto the road and looks at us as if to say "well aren't you going to bring me my ball back?" So in that respect, she does know invisible boundaries, even though we never consciously taught them to her..