Raw Food?
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madeleine
Experienced Member
I gave Dazzzle BARF.
If i remember correct i hold on to these percentages:
35 % muscle meat
45 % bone (very good meatty bones, atleast half the weight in meat)
20 % organ meat (10 = stomage, other 10 = heart, liver, kidney. sometimes i inclose other organs aswell)
Next to that she gets 5% vegables (gone trough a juice pressing machine).
Additionaly to the menu she gets a vis, eggshels, and some other small goodies.
If i remember correct i hold on to these percentages:
35 % muscle meat
45 % bone (very good meatty bones, atleast half the weight in meat)
20 % organ meat (10 = stomage, other 10 = heart, liver, kidney. sometimes i inclose other organs aswell)
Next to that she gets 5% vegables (gone trough a juice pressing machine).
Additionaly to the menu she gets a vis, eggshels, and some other small goodies.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
madelaine, why do you add in eggshells if your dog DOES get raw bones for his calcium?
(just curious, i knew ppl added in ground up eggshells if the dog wasn't getting raw bones)
(just curious, i knew ppl added in ground up eggshells if the dog wasn't getting raw bones)
madeleine
Experienced Member
Sorry don't think i put it down correctly. Should have put the '(' and the ')' in the sentence..
Once in a week i give her an egg (with shell).
She'll crack it, and than lick the stuff out (first time was sooooo funny, egg stuff was all over the floor).
I believe she will eat an half egg shell, by liking it up. The parts she doesn't eat I trough away when she's ready.
She gets very meaty bones (half % bone, other half meat). So i don't think the shells put her out off balance.
The funny thing is (now i think about it) sometimes I replace the chicken egg for two quail eggs. This egg I crack is and throw away the shell. Don't know why though, habbit I think...
Once in a week i give her an egg (with shell).
She'll crack it, and than lick the stuff out (first time was sooooo funny, egg stuff was all over the floor).
I believe she will eat an half egg shell, by liking it up. The parts she doesn't eat I trough away when she's ready.
She gets very meaty bones (half % bone, other half meat). So i don't think the shells put her out off balance.
The funny thing is (now i think about it) sometimes I replace the chicken egg for two quail eggs. This egg I crack is and throw away the shell. Don't know why though, habbit I think...
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
OH, OKAY, got it.
ah, well, if you are not grinding up the egg shell, i heard the dog doesn't always absorb the calcium that well anway, not sure though.
ah, well, if you are not grinding up the egg shell, i heard the dog doesn't always absorb the calcium that well anway, not sure though.
madeleine
Experienced Member
Btw. I looked up the menu.
She weighs 16.5 kg (I hold on to the dutch way of measuring..)
She gets 3 % of this.. Thats 495 gram a day. And 3465 gram a week.
Bones: 45 % = 1559 gram = 1600 gram
Organs: 20 % = 693 gram = 700 gram
Meat: 30 % = 1039.5 gram = 1000 gram
Vetagbles: 5 % : 173.5 gram = 175 gram (35 gram a day)
She weighs 16.5 kg (I hold on to the dutch way of measuring..)
She gets 3 % of this.. Thats 495 gram a day. And 3465 gram a week.
Bones: 45 % = 1559 gram = 1600 gram
Organs: 20 % = 693 gram = 700 gram
Meat: 30 % = 1039.5 gram = 1000 gram
Vetagbles: 5 % : 173.5 gram = 175 gram (35 gram a day)
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
sounds great to me, anyway! i hope to raw feed someday!
Madelaine, where do you get your meat? Do you have a large, stand alone freezer?
Madelaine, where do you get your meat? Do you have a large, stand alone freezer?
648117
Honored Member
I'm thinking about giving Holly a bone once a week to chew on (she is an extreme chewer) and to keep her busy. So I have some questions (I have never given a dog a bone before so some of the questions might seem a bit simple)
Is it alright to feed a bone to a dog that normally eats Kibble (Orijen Puppy)?
What kinds of bones can you feed dogs?
and where are the usual places to get them?
How much mess do dogs usually make when they eat the bone?
When should I take the bone off Holly (eg, should she have it for an hour, a day)?
Will the bone smell?
Is it alright to feed a bone to a dog that normally eats Kibble (Orijen Puppy)?
What kinds of bones can you feed dogs?
and where are the usual places to get them?
How much mess do dogs usually make when they eat the bone?
When should I take the bone off Holly (eg, should she have it for an hour, a day)?
Will the bone smell?
Adrianna & Calvin
Experienced Member
Hi 648
Holly has all of her adult teeth, right?
I didn't read the whole thread, but in case no one has mentioned it, there are definite risks to feeding bones:
1- Bones can break teeth. This probably wouldn't happen with softer, raw poultry bones, but it certainly does with animal bones. It won't happen to every dog but it will happen to many. Wear and tear on teeth isn't a reason on its own not to try out raw bones, but be aware that if your dog cracks a tooth so that pulp is exposed, humane considerations require you to have it treated immediately -- nerve exposure is *excrutiating*.
2- Bones can cause gastrointestinal obstruction, either through the quantity of bones consumed (a huge wad of hard-to-digest material can wreak havoc) or because a piece of bone that is either too big (not chewed properly) or sharp gets wedged somewhere in the intestinal tract. In most cases this is a surgical emergency.
3- Sharp pieces of bones (cooked chicken and pork bones, which should never be fed, are the most common culprit, but any bone can have a shard bitten off) can pierce the esophagus or the GI tract and cause serious problems or death.
Now I'm not trying to be a complete downer about bones -- I know of many dogs who have eaten raw bones without problems (although most eventually chip teeth if they eat beef bones). I used to give my late dog turkey necks and lamb necks, until one day he pooped out a bone splinter so sharp it nearly pierced the poo bag and I decided to jump off that bandwagon forever.
Honestly, I also know dogs who have had serious medical complications from eating bones. This mostly comes from dogs who are power chewers (my dog was -- he could actually chomp his way through a knuckle bone) or eat too fast and swallow bigger chunks. But a friend's Boxer who regularly got marrow bones needed emergency surgery and developed sepsis, and the sight of her sitting in the dog's cage, her back to me with her shoulders shaking with sobs, has stuck with me.
If I were to feed Calvin bones, it would be softer poultry bones. If I were to feed him raw meat, it would probably be ground.
Be aware that if you get marrow bones, you may want to push most of the marrow out as it is very greasy and can give some dogs diarrhea if they slurp it all out. Eventually they may tolerate it better.
BTW, some dogs who guard nothing else will guard bones, so I hope you have done your resource guarding exercises
All dogs should !
Best of luck!
Holly has all of her adult teeth, right?
I didn't read the whole thread, but in case no one has mentioned it, there are definite risks to feeding bones:
1- Bones can break teeth. This probably wouldn't happen with softer, raw poultry bones, but it certainly does with animal bones. It won't happen to every dog but it will happen to many. Wear and tear on teeth isn't a reason on its own not to try out raw bones, but be aware that if your dog cracks a tooth so that pulp is exposed, humane considerations require you to have it treated immediately -- nerve exposure is *excrutiating*.
2- Bones can cause gastrointestinal obstruction, either through the quantity of bones consumed (a huge wad of hard-to-digest material can wreak havoc) or because a piece of bone that is either too big (not chewed properly) or sharp gets wedged somewhere in the intestinal tract. In most cases this is a surgical emergency.
3- Sharp pieces of bones (cooked chicken and pork bones, which should never be fed, are the most common culprit, but any bone can have a shard bitten off) can pierce the esophagus or the GI tract and cause serious problems or death.
Now I'm not trying to be a complete downer about bones -- I know of many dogs who have eaten raw bones without problems (although most eventually chip teeth if they eat beef bones). I used to give my late dog turkey necks and lamb necks, until one day he pooped out a bone splinter so sharp it nearly pierced the poo bag and I decided to jump off that bandwagon forever.
Honestly, I also know dogs who have had serious medical complications from eating bones. This mostly comes from dogs who are power chewers (my dog was -- he could actually chomp his way through a knuckle bone) or eat too fast and swallow bigger chunks. But a friend's Boxer who regularly got marrow bones needed emergency surgery and developed sepsis, and the sight of her sitting in the dog's cage, her back to me with her shoulders shaking with sobs, has stuck with me.
If I were to feed Calvin bones, it would be softer poultry bones. If I were to feed him raw meat, it would probably be ground.
If the question is whether or not a dog can have an occasional bone, I think it's ok, although I do think that dogs who eat bones regularly 'learn' to digest them more efficiently. But if you wanted to give little Holly a small raw 'wing' now and then, it would probably be fine. Have you asked your vet about this?
Beef, poultry, and others, though see my opinions above
Be aware that if you get marrow bones, you may want to push most of the marrow out as it is very greasy and can give some dogs diarrhea if they slurp it all out. Eventually they may tolerate it better.Butcher shops for things like knuckle bones, supermarkets and green markets for others. My local farmer's market sells leftover parts for dogs like necks and feet.
Not much, but bacterial contamination is a concern so you may want to put her outside with a blanket, or inside on a towel if she'll stay there, and then wash it afterward.
If the bone contains raw meat it will eventually smell. There is a slight 'normal' smell too. If she really attacks the bone and is chomping pieces off, I would take it off her immediately. If she is slowly enjoying it, I would work your way up to letting her have it longer to avoid indigestion.
BTW, some dogs who guard nothing else will guard bones, so I hope you have done your resource guarding exercises
All dogs should !Best of luck!
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
madeleine
Experienced Member
Shy do some off you give your dog once a week a bone?
Dazzle gets 200 - 300 grams bones daily.
Here some examples: chickennek, chickenwing, gooseneck-head-body carcass, partridge carcass,
Rabbit ribs ( including backspine), guineafowl, quiel, duck (tam and wild) hare,
And even young lamb ribbs and young roa ribbs.
Next to that she gets meat of organs.. also 200-300 grams a day
The meat and organs come from different animals. Like goots, deer, horse, scheep, cows, (kangoeroe even though this was a luxery and not standard in her
Dazzle gets 200 - 300 grams bones daily.
Here some examples: chickennek, chickenwing, gooseneck-head-body carcass, partridge carcass,
Rabbit ribs ( including backspine), guineafowl, quiel, duck (tam and wild) hare,
And even young lamb ribbs and young roa ribbs.
Next to that she gets meat of organs.. also 200-300 grams a day
The meat and organs come from different animals. Like goots, deer, horse, scheep, cows, (kangoeroe even though this was a luxery and not standard in her
madeleine
Experienced Member
I do not feed the "walking and supporting" parts of everyting bigger than a rabbit. (Doesnt include birds offcourse)
So no legs from sheep/cows for example. And personally i'm no big fan of the neck werfels of the same group animals. (But thats because she a kelpie. Strong jaw musccles dog apperently can eat it)
So no legs from sheep/cows for example. And personally i'm no big fan of the neck werfels of the same group animals. (But thats because she a kelpie. Strong jaw musccles dog apperently can eat it)
648117
Honored Member
hmmmm..., Holly is a power chewer. She has to chew her edible chews until they are gone, even if it takes an hour she will not stop (not for a drink or toilet break, she just chews) unless it is taken off her. Although I have never (yet) seen any guarding behaviour from her. She managed to chew a piece off her first kong when she was 6 months old (it was a classic red kong, not a puppy one - she has a black one now)
She has all her adult teeth and has for a long time.
She has a deer antler that she has already inflicted a lot of damage to. She spends about an hour over a usual day chewing her plastic chew toys and/or deer antler so she has really strong jaws so maybe raw bones wont be good for her if extreme chewers are at more risk.
She sometimes gets dried rib bones, they don't last long.
In the evening she gets a frozen kong or a chew treat (eg, dried rib, lambs ear, or bully stick or rawhide roll - I rotate them, the kong and rawhide are the only ones that last longer than 5 minutes, but still less than an hour).
We have asked the vet about feeding dogs raw chicken necks before and he said he didn't like it incase they choke on it or it punctures something.
I mostly want to find a chew that will last longer than 5 minutes other than rawhide (I know this is not that good for dogs and I limit it to once a week) and isn't plastic (she eats a lot of plastic) but maybe a raw bone will be to risky for Holly given her extreme chewing.
MaryK
Honored Member
Very interesting posts. I am definitely considering changing my boys to raw meat. Over here we have Kangaroo meat and whilst I HATE the thought of them eating it, I adore the 'roos, it's supposed to be the best, low in fat, so no weight gain. Actually wish dogs could go 'veg' but not the right diet for them.
Just wondering how much each dog should have though? Zeus weighs in at 27 Kilos and Ra Kismet at 21.7 kilos.
There isn't any guide line on the packets as to how much per kilos/size of dog to feed. It's plain wrapper and just has Kangaroo Meat with Vitamins, pet food only - the last makes me a bit suspicious. Is it road kill??? I know there are laws about shooting roos, not sure if they are totally protected or culling limited numbers is permitted.
Zeus will only eat raw meat or kibble, thinks I'm about to poison him if I try anything else
Ra Kismet, he's another matter
Actually put on weight over the fruit seasons and his vet blamed ME (nicely) for giving him too many treats I had to explain it wasn't me, it was Rakins, helping himself to fruit straight from the tree Little tinker completely stripped the lower and middle areas of the fruit trees. He actually stands up on his hind legs to reach and if the branch is still a bit out of reach, will use his paws to pull it lower, he's just tooooo smart
. The birds stripped the upper reaches, I got the few that were left
His tum was BULGING on one day, he was almost 'waddling' it was so stuffed full of fruit
I had to try to keep on eye on him, so that didn't happen again.
He will even chew lemons, it's his 'mouth/breath' freshener
At least though I do know he's eating organically grown fruit
As to grass, both dogs chew grass and are like Buddy, Tiger Lily my two don't vomit either
The only time Ra Kismet ever vomited, and we were going that night on a road trip, or had diahrea (it's late cannot spell at night) was when he snaffled some KFC someone had thrown on the road! He had an upset tum for the entire trip Says a lot about KFC too! Tried to remove it after we were on the curb but he was too fast and looked at me with a 'hey Mom look ALL GONE' expression on his face, he was so pleased with himself
Just wondering how much each dog should have though? Zeus weighs in at 27 Kilos and Ra Kismet at 21.7 kilos.
There isn't any guide line on the packets as to how much per kilos/size of dog to feed. It's plain wrapper and just has Kangaroo Meat with Vitamins, pet food only - the last makes me a bit suspicious. Is it road kill??? I know there are laws about shooting roos, not sure if they are totally protected or culling limited numbers is permitted.
Zeus will only eat raw meat or kibble, thinks I'm about to poison him if I try anything else
Ra Kismet, he's another matter
Actually put on weight over the fruit seasons and his vet blamed ME (nicely) for giving him too many treats I had to explain it wasn't me, it was Rakins, helping himself to fruit straight from the tree Little tinker completely stripped the lower and middle areas of the fruit trees. He actually stands up on his hind legs to reach and if the branch is still a bit out of reach, will use his paws to pull it lower, he's just tooooo smart. The birds stripped the upper reaches, I got the few that were leftHis tum was BULGING on one day, he was almost 'waddling' it was so stuffed full of fruit
I had to try to keep on eye on him, so that didn't happen again.He will even chew lemons, it's his 'mouth/breath' freshener
At least though I do know he's eating organically grown fruit
As to grass, both dogs chew grass and are like Buddy, Tiger Lily my two don't vomit either
The only time Ra Kismet ever vomited, and we were going that night on a road trip, or had diahrea (it's late cannot spell at night) was when he snaffled some KFC someone had thrown on the road! He had an upset tum for the entire trip
Says a lot about KFC too! Tried to remove it after we were on the curb but he was too fast and looked at me with a 'hey Mom look ALL GONE' expression on his face, he was so pleased with himself
)