What Kind Of "work" For The Dog

Discussion in 'General Dog Training' started by Ina, Mar 19, 2011.

  1. Dodge Well-Known Member

    ))CLAP CLAP CLAP!!!(( TO YOU INA!!!
    The more people will hear about a far better way of teaching their beloved pets,the better(y)and if it will get rid of daft,cruel dominance rubbish (crap:oops:) training . . . even better!!! If people watch that kind of stuff and it "seems" to work for even the smallest amount of time . . . people will go for it,because it wont take up to much time :poop::poop::poop: they just dont know whats to come if they carry on with those stupid methods,do they,I m sooo glad that forums like this are out "here" for GOOD dog owners to find a GOOD way of training their dogs :)(y)

    Here in england . . . tooooo many people think CM is GOD (EXCUSE ME,HAVE TO :sick::sick::sick:) I have been told to give my lovely boy a kick in Wales (have been visiting family,my I would not want to repeat what I told that person!!!. . .) and another one the same day suggested a shock collar :ninja: you can imagine what my response was to THAT one!!! ))wagging my finger MADLY!!!((
    The more anyone can spread the word about possitive training . . . THE BETTER,THANK YOU FOR ALL THE DOGS OUT THERE,AWAITING PROPER TRAINING :love::love::love:

    Editing quickly here! Dodge is not aggressive in any way,shape or form,he has a funny weird habbit . . . .as soon as he see's a dog . . .he s glued to the pavement and there s no moving him unless you REALLY drag him (which I only do if he s laying in the road,bless him,he only wants to say hi to the other dog,he even does it off lead in the dog park,giggle!) but as soon as he said (sniffed!) Hi, he s ready to play and goes into the typicall bouncy boxer mood,hehehe:LOL:

  2. Dodge Well-Known Member

    Our recall is very much "hit 'n miss":D he is getting better,I take him to the park every day for a good blast (with another two boxer babes:love:) and do various things of what he does at home while we re waiting for them to turn up,it does kind of get him into the "Ooook,I better listen and I will get yummy treats,DROOL"
    BUT THEN AGAIN,WITH DOGS RUNNING AROUND US,IT DEPENDS ON HOW INTERESTING THE OTHER DOGS ARE AND NO TREAT IS GOOD ENOUGH TO GET HIM BACK . . . so thats why I keep doing the whistle training when noone is about at the park,and you know what . . . . he actually listend a few times when dogs was there and proper ran a corner to come back to me once!! I could not tell you how proud I was at that moment :love::LOL::LOL:
    Best of luck with your recall,when it happens,its the best feeling in the whole world :love:(y)
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  3. Ina Well-Known Member

    There is one trick you have to teach your dog IMMEDIATELY please: "get balls".
    Get your dog to sniff the gents zipper.

    Imagine someone suggesting a shock collar and your response is "Dodge, GET BALLS" and the boxer runs up to the guy to sniff his fly <evil grin>
  4. sara Moderator

    OHHHHH I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK!!! LOL

    I've really learned a ton working with deaf dogs, they rely totally on sight. If you use any negative training or punishment, you're going to have a dog who looks at you less and less. I have a deaf dog with 100% recall:eek: Yes I did just say a deaf dog with 100% recall. She has a very high prey drive ("SQUIRREL!" to quote a favorite Disney movie! LOL) Yet she checks in with me every few seconds, and never goes out of sight, even when chasing something....

    How? treats, praise, game. she got a treat every time she came to me of her own accord, so suddenly I had "ping pong dog" then I started treating intermittenly, then only when I called her, so she checks back often for even the slightest inclination that I want her to come back... if I give the come sign, she bolts back as fast as she can with pure joy!

    [IMG]
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  5. mewzard Experienced Member

    I think recall is the hardest thing a for a dog to learn. For Oka dogs are EVERYTHING no toy or treat comes close. The same with other prey animals.
    My video of Oka playing fetch is the product of playing multiple times a day over atleast 2 months. Yesterday i managed to get a game of 'tug-fetch' with her in the park with other dogs around this is a major step, which is only 1/2 related to recall. I have always rewarded for "check-ins", i called back randomly and rewarded, but hasn't made any difference to her general recall level. We made 2 mistakes with her as a young pup - not letting her offlead early enough and not playing with toys continously (though we didn't realise she needed it). We are all aware that the best meathod for the dogs is slow positive training, nothing is a quick solution - it takes time, and continuous training

    With CM, he makes it out like dogs are trying to take over the human world. That all the problems have very quick fixes, when infact he is making 'temporary repair' but as soon as the props are removed i would bet most of the dog revert back to thier old ways.
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  6. running_dog Honored Member

    100% recall with any dog with prey drive is brilliant and I love the photo, she's obviously really happy to be coming to you. I wonder if deafness might help Zac's recall. He uses my voice as a homing beacon when he's chasing, the louder I call the bigger his comfort zone :(

    How did you balance "ping pong dog" with avoiding giving treats on demand? Zac is an expert at using people as treat dispensers to provide treats whenever HE chooses to go to them:sneaky:. He does already (sometimes) preempt recall from middling temptations because he knows there could be a jackpot in it for him.
  7. Ina Well-Known Member

    I was really surprised today. I taught him to paw my feet whenever I raised one leg for ages. Today I stood next to him to see if he would understand that I have 2 legs and he has two front legs too, hoping that he would raise legs when I raise mine.
    He clicked immediately. Now we have a new trick which I call "March" in our repertoire. When I walk and say "March" he raises the one paw up and then the other one - TOO CUTE.
    I have to film it soon, but tomorrow we will be out all day attending the RSPCA Million Paw Walk (shuddering with excitement - it's our first paw walk)
    If you live in Melbourne, Australia, please join in.
    Here is the link our page again: http://www.millionpawswalkfundraising.com.au/smokey
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  8. Ina Well-Known Member

    Just have a look at the first couple of minutes regarding recall. But the rest of the video is just my favourite too.

    abby_someone and Dodge like this.
  9. sara Moderator

    Being a treat dispenser isn't a bad thing :whistle: at least at first! :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: My deaf dogs need to know they'll get paid for any attention they give me, otherwise they would never get to be off leash... though the Dachshunds never go off-leash as they're not trustworthy, at least, not yet. :unsure: But Scout, my gorgeous, perfect Scout is able to go anywhere, do anything that any well trained hearing dog can. She KNOWS that coming to me is very rewarding, and nothing else is better than a game of tug or a treat. But that being said, once I knew that I had to be 100% positive with her, her training went to an amazing new level!

    Scout came to me at 4 years of age, knowing 2 handsignals. Sit and shake. I adopted her at the end of June, 4 years ago. This video was taken at the beginning of September, that same year.

    Some of the stuff the lady talking is saying is a load of crap, but she has to plug her buisness some how...:rolleyes: but we've done 4 more demo's together since then, and she's got ALOT better!

    Please keep in mind while watching this video: Scout was a 4 year old rescue dog. When I adopted her, she was 2 hours from being euth'd at a pound, as no one wanted to risk a deaf dog. I'd only had her for 9 weeks at the time of this demo...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcHhWPFDFDo

    I'm not bragging about my training abilities, because Scout was the easiest dog EVER to work with! I'm just proving how 100% positive is extremely effective, and works very quickly! I didn't even know Scout existed 10 weeks before this video was taken.
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  10. running_dog Honored Member

    Ina, I like the video. It agrees with a lot of what some dogs told me so who am I to disagree!:)

    That said I'm with Mewzard that there are some things, in some dogs lives that are so wonderful that it is very hard or maybe even impossible to find ANYTHING that competes! The principle of recall is relatively straightforward "I come back I get big treat... Yippee!" But I still expect to be working on recall for the rest of Zac's life and leashing him in in many places where other peoples dogs safely roam and this is why:

    "She calls, I come back I get a game and lots of treats or I chase this running thing and the ground flies beneath my feet, the hot scent blows into my nostrils, I see the running thing twist and turn, it leaps, it bounds, I strain every nerve, every muscle, every sinew, I am a black streak fastened to it by the invisible thread of my own speed and agility, the earth is nothing we are flying creatures, I live, I live, I live..."
  11. running_dog Honored Member

    I'd already watched your video before (while developing my dog training accent). I know what it is like to take on even a hearing adult dog and I do think your little Scout is amazing and you are too! We saw two deer today and I tried to do lots of positive training (mainly "watch me") while they walked across the field, Zac was certainly better than with negatives but obviously without the lead he'd have gone - and they were nearly 1/4 of a mile away.

    I'm always learning new things about Zac, one of the first things was that if I'm annoyed (with him or anything else) he just stands off and waits. I rarely if ever use a negative in training now and it has helped lots, it's normally when he's about to roll in a dead fish that I get negative! After he's rolled it's too late anyway:D. Sometimes I think I glimpse an extraordinary intelligence in Zac and then wonder if all dogs are like this but the owners never find out?

    I'll try to put up with the "ping pong dog" and see how it goes, I sometimes walk a velcro dog for a friend and while I do really like the dog I also find the velcro effect really irritating! I don't think Zac will get like that though, he has far too many other things he likes doing!
    Dodge likes this.
  12. sara Moderator

    I didn't put up with ping pong dog for long, a couple of weeks, max, once she was reliable, but then she was only off leash for a few minuites at a time at first, as well. first time, out, back, out back, out back, done, leashed.... next time, a few more out and backs, then a few more, once she was down to 5 or so minutes of out and backs, I began varying the level of reinforcement. sometimes treat, sometimes a good body scratch, then we began the actual recall work, I would wave everytime she started to return, then treat or scratch, and finally, I would begin NOT waving, and NOT reinforcing returns when not waved in, but HEAVILY rewarding returns when I did wave her in. so I finally got a dog that explored off leash, but checks in every few seconds, just incase! I never let her fail, and because of that, she ALWAYS succeeds...

    I know this doesn't work with every dog, and you having a sighthound makes things different. but I wasn't in a rush to get her off leash walking, I took my time, and now I have perfect recall. It was really easy, Scout came to me a perfectly blank slate, even though she was a 4 year old rescue, she'd had NO training and not likely any off leash training, as most deaf dog owners are just not willing to risk letting a deafie off leash in an unenclosed area... but I trusted my work with her (but boy was I nervous the first few times I unclipped the leash!!!)

    BTW, I had NO part in you developing an AMERICAN training accent... :eek: It's a CANADIAN accent dont'cha know! :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
    Dodge likes this.
  13. running_dog Honored Member

    Sorry!:)

    Thanks for taking the time to explain (the dog training not the accent:LOL:), I'll try rewarding random returns and see where it gets us!
    Dodge likes this.
  14. sara Moderator

    BTW, (and getting back on topic;) ) I did approximately 5 minutes of "elephant trick" on the big ball... Ollie's passed out and snoring! he was wired for sound before we worked on it! If 5 minutes of trying to balance front feet on the ball and walk around it with his back feet tire him out like this, I dunno why I insist on walking him for hours! LOL

    It must be a seriously physical workout! talk about a rainy day (in this case 70 km/hr winds!) workout for dogs!
  15. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    I still sometimes bring my clicker, and re-inforce Buddy's recall now and then. And of course, every click = treat. I also, if NOT using clicker, he gets treats every now and then, so he never knows which time he will get treat. For the nontreat returns, he gets praise.

    Oddly, my first year or two of having Buddy, his recall was most excellent, probably 99.9%, i could even call him off bunnies and cats, etc etc!!! He was most obedient then, i think part of that was maybe he was not entirely certain how this "being part of the family" thing worked.(?) and he was completely 100% obedient.

    But, somehow, along the way, Buddy discovered, he can continue the chase and still be part of our family and get dinner....i must now admit, his recall is 95% if NO bunnies or cats, but, drops to 80% if there are bunnies or cats.
    so i am back to square one all over again.....thus, the clicker.

    One bit of advice, i heard that makes perfect sense, (from Victoria Stillwell's show, "It's Me or the Dog" is,
    -------------if you have worn out a cue, like "come"----------and the dog no longer responds to that cue-------- consider introducing an entirely NEW cue, like a different word or sound, or even a whistle, and train from scratch to come to THAT NEW cue or noise.

    ALSO------------
    I'm a page behind, but, Running Dog, why would you want to stop your dog from sniffing another dog? That is proper social etiquette in the dog world, like you and i shaking hands upon being introduced.

    I crack up, there is a woman down the block who does same thing, seems mortified her dog wants to sniff Buddy's rear end, acts upset, stiff, and embarrassed by that.
    I told her same thing, that is GOOD thing for dogs to do, but, she does not "like" it....sigh.
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  16. mewzard Experienced Member

    Totally totally Oka. I'd got her to the point, in recall, where she chased after deer in a forest and i called her back - i managed this 2 times. Then my kids got chicken pox one after the other, then she was speyed. So nearly 3 weeks of on-lead walks and her recall is shot! I'm at the point i was just over a month ago, 60% recall on a long line 0% when she's free :rolleyes:. But i have found that she must have that time to play with dogs/run or it becomes more of a fixation and she doesn't respond at all when she see's a dog. It's all balance.

    This is very true also, for Oka we used /come/ BUT she never responded well to it. We now use /this way/ and it works really well. A few other shepherd+shepherd cross owners i've spoken to have said that thier dogs don't really respond to /come/. I think it's to do with the pitch of the word. I have a dog whistle to add in when her recall is more consistant. I've found that calling her and then when she is starting towards me, i run away from her a few steps makes her more likely to come to me.
    We spent time working on /cross paws/ last night and Oka was alot calmer after. Brain work is very important for Oka's tiredness level.
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  17. running_dog Honored Member

    It's not the rear end greeting, I know that's very important and prevents many a dog fight! No, Zac can get really pushy and sniffy and licky with a few specific (probably very submissive?) dogs, you know, like most dogs can be with small puppies. It's fine off lead but not good manners on lead and I tried the wrong way to show him that.
    Dodge likes this.
  18. Dodge Well-Known Member

    I'm not bragging about my training abilities, because Scout was the easiest dog EVER to work with! I'm just proving how 100% positive is extremely effective, and works very quickly! I didn't even know Scout existed 10 weeks before this video was taken.[/quote]

    OMG,I M DEAD IMPRESSED!!!! YOU MOST DEFO SHOULD BRAG!!!!You only had her for 9 weeks at that point!???!!! My god you have to come to me for a visit:D(and get our recall sorted,LOL!)
    Will have to edit this one or start another one,just had to get this off my chest (y)

    Ok,anyway,Ina I love that video and how he explained it with a grizzly bear,just brill,will have to watch that again(y) oooh and I like your thinking,but I say "Get your ball!" all the time at the park for his rubber ball,that could get me into trouble then:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
    Mewzard,I know its totally my fault with his recall,I never let him off when he was a pup,I was petrified that he would do a runner,used to take him to the moors and after a few months he took a liking to sheep:ninja:never took him back there again!
    Also,every click means a treat . . .what on earth are you suppose to do when your dog comes bounding back,you click,he sniffs the treat and runs off without wanting it:confused:?(and thats treats he drools over at home,freshly baked!):confused:
  19. Ina Well-Known Member

    Oh, change the word to "ZIP HIM UP" :-)

    Happens to me all the time ... I replace the treat with a happy "Gooooood dog". I think we should use the word REWARD instead of TREAT more often.
    treat = food
    reward = food OR play, good dog, a pat on the back - anything positive the dog likes
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  20. sara Moderator

    A click doesn't always mean food, it means a reward, like Ina said. Honestly, I think Oliver prefers his ball, or a tug to food,, in certain situations!
    Dodge likes this.

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