The Reality Of Breeding

Discussion in 'Off-Topic & Chit Chat' started by Dodge, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. JoAnne Well-Known Member

    The reason for tail docking was to allow farmers to have working dogs without having to pay a luxury tax for owning a working dog. Instead of fighting Pits, I think we should throw you pro-breeders vs adoption only people into a ring and see who comes out alive. You're not going to change each others mind, let's just live together for the good of the fancy.

  2. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    Tail docking was done both for the tax as well as for health reasons. Livestock sometimes had to be moved over very rough terrain, in all weather conditions, and quite frankly sometimes tails were just in the way.
    This may not stand for all breeds, but the Border Collie, Blue Lacy, Aussie, Dalmatian, and Rottie breeders I have worked with are devoted advocates of adoption as well as improving the breed they love. They work closely with rescues, they foster, and they offer assistance to new owners of their breed. So I do believe that there are people who fall in the middle, not just pro-breeding or adoption only. Personally, my current and future dogs will probably all be adopted with the exception of a few for specific reasons. When I go to Bergin for the Assistance Dog Program, whatever breed I decide to go with will probably come from a breeder because I feel that finding a suitable pup of the right age to start the program will be far easier going through a breeder. Plus, I need to be sure that the puppy is healthy enough physically and mentally to perform the tasks he/she may need to. Once I know more about picking and placing puppies, then I will go through shelters as well as breeders.

    I don't think anyone here is trying to change each other's minds, I think it's just a discussion in general about breeding for the right reasons and how breeding for the wrong reasons has created the need for millions of shelters.

    But maybe I'm left out of the loop here, lol! :)
    Dodge likes this.
  3. charmedwolf Moderator

    Yes, while there was a tax on the tails length it was also thought by the romans to cure rabies. That isn't the reason it is still done today. A number of gundog breeds hunt game through heavy vegetation and thick brambles, where their fast tails can easily be torn and ripped up which is painful and extremely difficult to treat, I've had to bring a few of these to the ER vet after a hunting trip. Docking the end of the tail eliminates the risk of injury. Working terriers are docked for the same reason.The terriers which are bred to hunt below ground for purposes such as vermin control, have their tails docked to a length that allows working in a confined space and doesn't allow for vermin to grab it. Many other non-working breeds also have an enthusiastic tail action with little protection, like the Boxer and Doberman. Such breeds are also liable to damage their tails, even in the home and often have to get them docked later in life after an accident happens. Long haired, thick coated breeds like the Yorkshire Terrier and Old English Sheepdog are docked to avoid the hair around the base of the tail becoming fouled by feces. Even with constant grooming and washing, it still is unpleasant. If allowed to get out of hand, it can lead to severe problems of hygiene, or even flystrike and infestation by maggots. Hygiene problems can be greatly reduced or eliminated altogether by docking.

    Cropping however was to protect the ears from being ripped off in the event of a fight or attack. Also a guard dog having the ears cropped to stand upright allowed for increased sound localization. It also helps ward off ear infections by allowing air to circulate in the ear.

    I do like to think that I am a middle of the fence. I promote correct breeding and adoption if applicable. I think if you don't know what you are doing, don't breed. Hell, you shoudn't even get a dog if you don't at least have a clue on what you are doing. I've had as many rescues as the dogs I've breed. Right now I have 2 dogs that I have breed, Kona and Chloe, one I bought, Kratos and four that I rescued, Jersey, Meatball, Isis and Jinx. I am definitely not just a pro-breeder at all.
    abby_someone, Lexy88 and Dodge like this.
  4. Dodge Well-Known Member

    Very true,its a whole lot of fab info here,I just hope that people that are thinking about breeding "just the once" will read this and will get a lot of food for thoughts(y)
    Charmedwolf for example sounds like a fantasic breeder and I would like to say sorry,you are doing a fab job and I really did not want to offend and say that every breeder is rubbish ))hug to you((

    (boxer's tails can be a leathal weapon,but I lurve his tail:love::LOL: and hope he will never damage it:love:)
    bekah1001 and tigerlily46514 like this.
  5. sara Moderator

    All I can say is I'm glad Europe for the most part has banned docking and cropping... and I hope North America follows soon!

    I have 5 rescues, but one day, I would LOOOVVVEEEE to get an Irish Terrier puppy. I helped my sister find a Westie puppy from a phenominal breeder, and that was alot of fun. I'm really pro-rescue, but then I'm pro-responsible breeder too. If everyone who bought a puppy would rescue their next one, then there'd be alot less dogs getting euthanized in shelters.
    Dodge and bekah1001 like this.
  6. bekah1001 Honored Member

    I got my dog from a breeder but I really want to adopt my next dog...that won't be for a long time though (but I look at petfinder everyday. I'm in love with Roo, a german shepherd with two deformed legs and Dezzy, a husky/malamute with a small neurological problem.) And I really hope The ban docking/cropping as well. I love my dogs all natural. :p
    tigerlily46514 and Dodge like this.
  7. abby_someone Well-Known Member

    HEHE! My dane's tail was damaged by a door when she was under 2. She lived the remainder of her life missing the last 6 inches of wonderful dane tail. (how I missed that few extra inches) She never cared. Of course, just to get that darned thing to heal took FOREVER!! and involved lotsa tape and (a paint roller sleeve :oops:) It took probably a year before it didn't bleed anymore when she whacked it on the wall.
    Dodge likes this.
  8. bekah1001 Honored Member

    Mahoney has a little crook at the ende of his tail:D We think he had it since he was born
  9. abby_someone Well-Known Member

    Really? :) That's pretty cute. The really funny thing about animals is that no matter what life throws at them, they never seem upset. I am sure that Mahoney has absolutely no idea that he is any different than any other dog. :D I wish we could all be like that.
    Hayley Thompson likes this.
  10. DuncansMom Well-Known Member

    Another horrible reality is that there are still a great many cruel puppy mills all over the USA (and the world) where dogs are farmed and kept in small, dirty cages and never taken outside. The dogs are abused and neglected and never taken on walks, never socialized and the puppies are sold to people who don't know about the horrible breeding conditions and usually end up with very sickly pets.These puppy mills are illegal but there is a loophole in the law that still allows unregulated puppy mill operators to sell puppies online. I just went into DC on Monday to talk to my Senators about co-sponsoring a bill named PUPS- Puppy Uniform Protection and Safety Act H.R. 835/S.707. This bill would close that loophole and prevent 24/7 confinement of these poor dogs. Please call and/or write to your congressmen to urge them to support this bill.

    These cruel puppy-mill breeders give more ethical breeders a really bad name, and with this loophole it is very hard for people to know whether they are buying a dog from an ethical breeder or a horribly cruel one.
    tigerlily46514, Dodge and tx_cowgirl like this.
  11. bekah1001 Honored Member

    you could really tell when he was little... at one point it look like he had a devil tail. Now you can't notice it.
  12. running_dog Honored Member

    I just found an organisation called puppy love that campaigns against puppy farming in the UK.

    I live in northern England (to me Manchester feels like the "South" :ROFLMAO:), quite honestly I've never seen a puppy in any of the many pet shops I've visited in my area though once I saw puppies in Harrods in London and once we found out (through a found dog) that there is a local breeder of multiple litters who moved leaving a false forwarding address (they got found but sadly that meant they got their dog back) ... all the same I was kind of shocked to know that there are over 80 licensed (we actually LICENSE this kind of abuse!?) and a similar number unlicensed puppy farms/mills operating in Carmarthenshire in Wales.

    I just looked up the website of the breeder of my friend's dog, just diagnosed with Addison's, the breeder (no longer breeding that breed? Yeah, right) says that they have never done any any testing for genetic diseases because purchasers of pups have never reported any problems... I'll be interested to see whether their website changes in the very near future.
    tigerlily46514 and bekah1001 like this.
  13. running_dog Honored Member

    For those of us in the UK there is a petition to stop puppy farming, it is on our government website HERE. You can sign it if you are from other countries too! Please do!

    They haven't got many signatures so far - but perhaps that is because people like us don't know about the petition, it only takes a minute to complete and surely it is worth a minute to show you care about those poor dogs?
    bekah1001 and tigerlily46514 like this.
  14. bekah1001 Honored Member

    Only 15 :confused: .... awe i hope more people will sign it
    running_dog and tigerlily46514 like this.
  15. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    well, make that 16.
    I wasn't sure if i could sign it, not being from UK, but, turns out, one's address is 'optional', so i signed it, and left my address blank. Many politicians care only about those who can vote for THEM, see.

    HERE is the petition:
    http://www.gopetition.co.uk/petitions/ban-puppy-farming/sign.html

    IF ONE GOOGLES "BAN PUPPY MILLS" + the name of their town,

    There are many laws in progress, petitions for your area, go look!! google! feel free to post them here. i'll sign anything to help eradicate puppy mils.

    ALSO many local groups working to ban puppy mills will show up, in that google search.
    Lol, my local 'Ban Puppy Mills group' always tends to choose bad weather days to hold our protests, hee hee. We need a weatherman in our group, i'm sure. It is fun to meet other like minds when i show up, and some i know from other events against puppy mills,
    but, i always feel bad, most of them bring their dogs, but, i can't yet bring Buddy, he'd have a heart attack, all those other dogs. lol, he'd make a scene...

    We did protest in front of new puppy shop that went up this past December 2010 for the holiday puppy sales, (got all their pups from the most horrific puppy mills around here, but YES, the pups sure did look cute inside the store, but, THAT is only half of the story, and YES, these pups DID come with AKC papers....)

    and we managed to kindly talk to several people, who were heading in there to get holiday gifts (puppies) and talked them into going to the local shelter instead, WHOOOOOOOT. One lady, a real dog lover, just about cried, said she had no idea, and asked directions to the shelter, which we had all printed up and ready to go. One less homeless dog in the world, and a few hundreds of dollars less in the fist of the breeders. MONEY is what keeps backyard breeders in business.

    We took turns on both the door to the puppy shop inside the mall,
    as well as outside entrance door (we took turns to stay warm, ha ha) We had flyers about puppy mills where this store gets their dogs from, and directions to local shelters printed up. And we had each other, and we knew it is wrong to have puppy mills. ONly way to stop them, is hit them in their pocket.

    Reporting them to AKC takes years and years of continuous reporting, and even then, in the conglomerate which is that AKC beauty show, usually, the AKC only stops issuing "registrations" when it gets into the press, and it has to be a LOT of press to get the registrations to stop being issued, takes YEARS. Just reporting the puppy mill, asking AKC to go look at it, gets zero result.

    One lil article that no one notices, wont' stop AKC from issuing licenses. It requires public outcry. Afterall, both parents have proper papers, and so it is all legal, etc....it doesn't matter they live in cages out in cold or super hot barns, in mud, underfed, sick, ignored, cranking out litter after litter of those cutesy AKC pups. People DO like dogs to have registrations, and pay top dollar to get that piece of paper, so they can tell their friends their dog is some superior dog, i guess...(not sure).

    The pictures of WHERE these cutesy, AKC registered puppies were coming from, of the horrific conditions all of their parents were being kept in, were very helpful.

    but, some people didn't care, and went in and bought puppies anyway, but, what can you do, we tried, and of course, we were very kind to them, (like most ppl---they simply just don't know any better is all,

    the buyers themselves are not evil, and are mostly unaware of the cruelty and evil and abuse of dogs that their dollars ARE supporting.)...so the scheister who is abusing these dogs did get *some* cash, but, i know we did make a dent in his profits.
    and we turned on some lightbulbs.

    that puppy shop did go out of business, YAY!!!!!
    running_dog likes this.
  16. bekah1001 Honored Member

    I think it was in quebec but pregnant huskies were found (from puppy mills i believe) ...they all went to different shelters... sad

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