Some Dogs Are Born Dog-aggressive, Imo

Discussion in 'Dog Behavior Problems' started by tigerlily46514, May 23, 2011.

  1. bekah1001 Honored Member

    I haven't read all the comments cause there is so many. So I have a question, Brody gets very growly near (so far male) dogs. Could this just be a male thing? He is really growly near one puppy he knows which is a male. But Manny (the dog we used to have) used to bite Brody's face all the time and he would start to growl.

  2. Anneke Honored Member

    Growling is not always a sign of agression. It can only be, your dog is saying, hey I don't like what you are doing! Get lost!!
    Remember that this is the way they communicate.
    But... you need to look at the whole picture. Read your dogs bodylanguage and the bodylanguage of the other dog.
    With puppies, well some dogs just don't like those little things... they have no manners, jump up in your face, get in your way...
    What are the dogs like, that he growls at. Are they high energy? It might just be, he doesn't like having busy dogs around.
    Or do these dogs have a high posture, meaning high held tail, coming at him with a lot of attitude? It might be, he wants to tell them not to mess around with him.
    And it might be a male thing, yes.
    Another thing it could be, is protecting you. Are you near your dog, when this happens? Does he position himself between you and the other dog? If that is the case, just walk away.(bit hard, when he is on leash...)
    Problem is, there are sooo many reasons why a dog reacts to another dog. And often we misread or completely miss bodylanguage.
  3. bekah1001 Honored Member

    Thanks for the info. I'll have to read him and figure out what he is 'saying' and I'd like to see his reaction to female dogs.
  4. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Bekah, your question might be an interesting thread of it's own, so you can continue to come back to, to update Brody's progress, etc etc. AND get more ppl's opinions, as this thread is not much read anymore by anyone, it got heated, as ppl who seemed to find the evidence that allllllllll the permanently aggressive dogs tested, all have visible differences in their brains-------- as an insult to dogdom or something.
    :rolleyes: Many many ppl even see labelling a dog "aggressive" as something of an anathema, just a real 'cut-down' to the dog, and most ppl feel overwhelming need to find other words, instead of using the "A-word" (aggressive).
    This here thread, is not about any particular individual dogs, really, nor is it really about how to manage any one dog's issues,
    but instead,
    this thread is about
    the inborn, neurochemical and neurobiological abnormalities found in the bloodstreams and brains of all permanently aggressive dogs,
    but never ever found in one 'normal' dog.
    How old is Brody?? I always find it interesting when ppl leave out a dog's age, when discussing an issue about the dog. (?)
    How long have you had Brody?
    How come Brody has never played with a female dog?
    How often does Brody get to socialize with other dogs?

    Growling is not a sign a dog is aggressive, it depends on the circumstances, the entire package of what is going on, body language, circumstances, like Anneke said. And sometimes, the growling dog IS 'right'!! ha ha
    Growling can even be done in play, (tug a toy games sometimes can get growls)
    or it can be healthy much needed remark by the growling dog. Not all growling is "wrong" or 'aggression' at all. Growling tells us nothing, it's about what is going on, when the dog growls.
    To label a dog aggressive, takes more than one event, it is a lifelong ongoing persistant pattern,
    but dont' worry about not being able to tell,
    if you ever DO have a dog with lifelong, permanent, inappropriate aggression, you will know it, there will be no question in your mind at all.
    noooooooo question about it, unless you live an extremely isolated life, where the dog very rarely comes in contact with unknown humans or unknown dogs...otherwise, it becomes extremely obvious that the dog is aggressive.
    many to most ppl, despite living for years, and years,
    with an obviously permanently aggressive dog,
    still oddly choose to avoid using the word "aggressive". I do not know why that is. They feel some need to add modifiers to the word, or to come up with other words entirely, like
    "protective"...."dominant"....."territorial"....."is fine unless you look at him or touch him"...."fearful"....on and on and on and on...........long long long list of words ppl use to avoid saying their dog is "aggressive"
    as if the word itself
    is "bad". (?) so many ppl avoid the "A-word" but then no one knows for sure what they mean when they say their dog is "fearful" (not all fearful dogs bite) or "territorial" when usually those dogs do argue on the street as well, etc etc etc...
    I have accepted my dog is plain ol' dog-aggressive. Others can re-label his behavior with confusing words, which do not have universally clear meanings, but i feel no need to euphemise Buddy's issues.
    Calling him "aggressive" does not mean he is a lesser dog than anyone else's, it just makes EASILY understood what to picture about my dog's issues, when those issues present themselves.
    Using the word "aggressive" does not mean Buddy is "evil" nor does it mean i have one drop less compassion than i would have for his struggles, if i DID use some "softer, more confusing" word. I know he is doing the best he can, with brain abnormalities that he was born with.
    i honestly do not understand why so so so many ppl need to avoid admitting their dog is aggressive. I've read blog after blog on why that word can't be applied to dogs. :rolleyes: lolz, it's still aggression, even if a dog does it.
    SORRY for derail of my own reply, THAT HAS nothing whatsoever to do with YOUR puppy, Bekah, nothing at all to do with a puppy who growls, when we have so few details on that puppy's behavior., how the puppy is with other dogs, etc etc.
    Bekah, if you truly can not tell if your puppy is having aggression issues or not, (no way at all to tell by your post what is going on with the puppy) do get the dog evaluated by a dog behaviorist. I doubt your puppy is aggressive, BUT, if you can not tell, get him evaluated. If if if if he is aggressive, the sooner you begin therapy, the better the result.
    bekah1001 likes this.
  5. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    I so agree with so much of Anneke's post above, most all of it is spot on right and good advice,
    but i did disagree with this one line:

    //"Another thing it could be, is protecting you. Are you near your dog, when this happens? Does he position himself between you and the other dog? If that is the case, just walk away.(bit hard, when he is on leash...)"//

    When a dog does this,
    growl when another dog approaches his human,
    he is almost always "claiming" the human as "his" property, same as he would his chewbone. The growling dog is telling the other dog "back off, she's MINE"...mine as in chewbone.

    Anneke is right, getting up and away is good move.
    I do not know what "bit hard, when he is on the leash" means,
    but NEVER EVER "correct" a growl, Bekah, please don't ever scold or punish or yank your dog for growling. (not that you are, i'm jsut telling you that to prevent you from ever trying it)

    Teaching a dog to not growl,
    does not make a dog "nice"
    it only makes him "silent".

    Then you are left with an unpredictable, hard to read dog, who goes straight for a bite. Growling is universally understood, even by strangers, and most dogs would prefer to growl over attack,
    BUT, if the dog is punished for growling, the dog could learn, "never growl".

    Owners who HAVE yanked on their dogs or scolded their dogs for growling, are the ones who post remakrs like, "You can never tell when Fluffy is going to attack, one minute Fluffy is minute, BAM, Fluffy has bitten someone..."
    ..........cuz somewhere along the line, Fluffy came to understand, "growling is not to be done".

    Fluffy's inner attitude:mad: is just exactly the same as it was,
    but Fluffy has been scolded for giving a warning,
    so Fluffy no longer gives any warning.

    Bekah, you WANT your dog to be free to growl.

    Another thing you can try, if the puppy IS growling to mark you as "his" to another dog, and preventing the approach of another dog, is the old "bathroom trick"
    (see, YOU are leader, not him, and YOU get to decide who gets near you, not Brody).

    Brody has a right to growl, but you also have the right to a growl free kitchen.

    If Brody growls when a dog approaches YOU,
    (brody is owning you, like a chewbone, not "protecting" you)
    you can CALMLY , SILENTLY take Brody by a leash into the bathroom(or any room with a door)
    close the door for 20 seconds (that is a long time to a dog)
    and then,
    calmly, silently, bring Brody back into the room.

    If Brody repeats his growl (he will) about the other dog approaching you,
    calmly, silently (NO yanking, NO scolding) remove Brody into another room
    by his leash,
    close the door
    for 20 seconds. Calmly silently bring Brody back again.

    Repeat each time Brody tries to own you as his.
    It didn't take my lil gangsta dog too too long to realize, "Oh, i guess mom doesn't appreciate my gangsta routine, and i guess, if i want to be in here with everyone else, i have to be a gentleman"
    and so he was.

    BUT NEVER EVER CORRECT A GROWL, you do not get a lot of chances to get that right. Remove a growling dog calmly, away from whatever is freaking him out,
    but do not scold or yank or punish a growling dog.

    but, maybe your puppy is not growling about another dog approaching you.
    DOES BRODY GET ON WELL WITH OTHER DOGS???????? or just growls at this one dog? how old is Brody??
    bekah1001 likes this.
  6. running_dog Honored Member

    I'm guessing that Anneke is noting (quite correctly :ROFLMAO:) that it is hard for a person to walk away from their dog when the dog is attached to them by a leash.
  7. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....well, that makes sense. Now i get it, she meant, "It is a bit hard to do" whereas i was misinterpretting it to mean "bit hard" as in yank the dog around. glad i posted that i did not know what it means!!
  8. Anneke Honored Member

    Sorry, reading it back, I see I wasn't very clear.... But yes I did mean, if the dog is on leash, it is hard to remove yourself from the situation.:D

    And with protecting I actually meant excatly what you are saying, Tigerlily. I should have used the word CLAIMING, but that didnot come to me yesterday. (Lack of sleep, not able to think straight:eek:)
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  9. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Anneke, i have insomnia this:ROFLMAO: week, too, we are insomniac twins this week!! Now that Rdog told me what you meant, i now can't believe i didn't know that already!!
    Anneke likes this.

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