That is a good point Dani!!!!
LOL now who is training who??? He sounds quite a character! I haven't attempted the fetch me a kleenex, as both my boys LOVE chewing up Kleenex. Must try though with meatballs (partner will have to let me have some I don't eat meat) and see if that works!i *wish* i just got a "mule" look and "just sits there" - he is very communicative about his disgust, lol.
if he's just mildy annoyed, he gives me a facial expression - yhgtbkm kinda thing.
next step up, he shakes his head and sneezes.
up from there, he adds a double-foot stomp.
the ultimate, however, is throwing things at me: i thought just for grins'n'giggles, i'd teach him to fetch me a kleenex from the box.
he got the trick instantly but the first few rounds ended with me digging soggy masses of kleenex out from his mouth - i'd forgotten how much he loved eating the stuff as a puppy. so i thought right - we need a major high end treat as a trade-off and i chopped up a couple meatballs from last night's dinner. the moment he knew meatballs were in the offing, he was bringing them like a rock star - but i wasn't paying attention and suddenly i was groping around in the bowl beside me, looked, and crap! no more meatballs!
"sorry, buddy - all gone," i said, showing him the empty bowl.
so he slapped the bowl out of my hand then brought back the kleenex box and threw it at me, lol.
well, that was definitely a review site but since the vast majority are posted anonymously, it's little better than useless.
Well, the steward said, "Bon appetit!" (essentially, "click"), when they got it right. "That's not what these people ordered" was the "ah!ah!"were i in that contest, just having ppl sit there and not eat, that'd drive me mental - how long do i wait before determining they actually don't want it? maybe they're trying to psyche me out? etc.
having the guy say "that's not what these ppl ordered", sure, it would get infuriating after a while but at least it's an instant indicator.
So the question then becomes how do I know whether the NRM is punishing and no longer simply marking. And as trainers, do we let that carry over into non-training times as well. Then I think it does become more of an interrupter. But like the word "no" for a 2 year old, it can be over-used and become meaningless. It's always better to say "walk" instead of "don't run", as there is no confusion in meaning.I think when talking about dog training it's always good to understand your learning theory terms, and you can put that into context with something like a NRM, and the posts above I think illustrate an important point, the individual decides what's punishing or reinforcing, how much harsh an aversive really is.
The dog decides if he or she finds the NRM (or any aversive) punishing. Every dog is different, and NRMs are used differently by different trainers. Like I find myself mostly using them almost more like an interrupter than information during a training session........