Martingle Dog Collar?

[Dlilly]

My local animal shelter puts choke chains on all of their dogs when they are walked. I was thinking about raising money to buy some humane collars! I was thinking that martingle collars would probably be the best since they want a collar that the dog can't get out of.

I have no experience with this type of collar…. Do you think this is a good idea?

 

[sara]

I have martingale collars on my dogs, though I dont use them for walking, for the most part. But I always put a back up martingale on all new fosters... I would hate for one to escape. but then they aren't allowed to pull on that collar, I use a harness and double ended lead, one end to the martingale, and one on the harness, for fosters. Oliver uses a halter and harness combo, and the Doxies just have harnesses.

Maybe raise money for double ended leads for them, so they can attach one end to a harness or flat collar, and one end to the choker, so the dog cant get away if it does slip the collar, but doesn't get strangled when pulling.

Chokers are the devil's spawn, and should NEVER be used on any dog.

 

[tigerlily46514]

I love your idea, Dilly!
I think martindale collars looks safe enough that no dog could pull out of it and run away.

or buy some various sized chest harnesses, are also a good way to walk a dog that you worry might escape his collar, too.

Or some of those mesh-vest thingies:
https://www.asseenontv.com/detail.php?p=300100&pa=sli

^i just grabbed one off of the net, there are many brands of such mesh vests. Also, if you are buying either martindales or mesh-harnesses,
i'd let shoppe owner know, you are buying these for humane society, see if you can get a price-break. Save receipt, this is tax deductible (charity).

also---------before you raise money, and purchase the items-----------might be good idea to first ask the dog pound, if they'd use them if the dog pound was given the items?? not sure, but seems a good idea. It'd be a darn shame if you did all this,
and they wouldn't use it.
Or maybe just buy one (1) to give them, and check back in a week, if they do like it/use it, then get more of them???


Also, maybe print up some info sheets on all the dangers of choke collars, and bring those along. GOOD ON YOU, DILLY!!! AND BEST OF LUCK on your project!!!

Maybe public bake sales, public car washes, etc, might also raise awareness of the human society using choke collars, which could help exert some pressure for them to quit that practice? Letters to the editor of newspaper also might help alert the public of this.

 

[Dogster]

I agree!!!! I do not know why they use choke chains there.... all of the shelters I know of use martingale collars. The choke chains MUST GO!!!!!!

 

[charmedwolf]

All mine have martingale except Kratos because I can't find one big enough yet . The ones that I own have two D rings. One that tightens and one that doesn't. It's the best kind that I have found and the two collars that Jinx and Isis have are almost 10 years old so they hold up very well. This is where I get mine: http://www.cozycritter.com/martinspecs.htm

 

[jackienmutts]

Martingales are a great idea. I walk my boy on a regular buckle collar, but always use a Martingale for walking my girl - she's dog-aggressive, and while we've done loads of work and she's come far, I can't ever run the risk of her seeing a dog she just doesn't like for some reason, her slipping her buckle collar, and an "accident" happening. I'd rather be safe than sorry. Our training facility, which is all positive, encourages (and requires for one class in particular) Martingales on "feisties" - "there shall be no accidents".

I get why shelters and rescues use chokes (and in the case of German Shep rescue, prongs - ugh), altho I do hate seeing them. They're cheap, they buy them in huge bulk, all kinds of sizes and weights, and with the larger dogs, they need some kind of control when walking a dog who may never have been walked and is difficult, a sttong puller, etc. But in the case of a a GS rescue I deal with, they make a huge effort to get all the dogs walked every day, and I know there's that risk of control, and collar slipping. Can't risk losing a dog, nor someone getting hurt. What irks me more, is seeing someone in a pet supply place with their dog, trying on choke and prong collars. *sigh*

And it's why we're all here .... education, one person at a time.

 

[tigerlily46514]

i *could* possibly see why dog pounds would want to use a choke collar to stop pullers, IF IT WORKED.
BUT, it's been shown, again
and again,
that choking a dog does NOT stop all dogs from them pulling....

some poor dogs spend their entire lives being walked in choke collars,
and STILL pull.......even as old dogs, they are pulling away, somehow making themselves oblivious to the choking going on.....or maybe they do notice it, but find some mental way to overcome that discomfort/pain.....
cuz they still pull.

 

[Dlilly]

I walked a bunch of dogs on choke chains, and each dog pulled! I actually got them to stop pulling by circling every time they pulled. I don't see why choking a dog would stop a dog from pulling if they are already choking themselves!! o.O

I think harness would be too much of a hassle. Especially if the dog doesn't like its paws being lifted or being touched like that. The shelter is a very scary place….

I'm going to ask before I buy the collars. XP I just want to figure out which collar I want before I ask to throw out all of the choke chains.

Can martingle collars be left on the dogs when they are in their pen, or should they be removed?

 

[tigerlily46514]

well, the mesh-vest harness is a slip-on thing, feet on the ground.

but, yeah, i can see how adjusting a 'real' strap harness would be a pain for lots of dogs!!

 

[jackienmutts]

Tigerlily - I wasn't implying that choke collars worked, only saying I understood why they are used :cost, size (one can fit many dogs), and in the old-school world, the belief is that choking does work, and sometimes, it's just the way it's always been ("we've always ordered those" type of thing). Lots of education (and funds) still needed out there.

Dlilly - they *can* be left on, but only if they're sized correctly. The problem with shelters is often $$. And Martingales should be fitted much like a buckle collar. They're slipped over the dogs head, and then there's the added "give-n-take" section. The size is gonna change for every dog -- another reason choke collars are used, they're very "one size fits all". Again, not defending, only understanding. It would take a bit of extra time to fit a collar to each dog, time that sometimes the shelter workers don't have. It's a sad reality for many shelters out there, depending on where one lives. I hope yours is willing to work with you, that would be fabulous!

 

[charmedwolf]

Yes, they can be left on in theirs pens. There are martingales that have a buckles and are easily adjustable. The collar that Isis has on used to be a my old Mastiff mix, now it fits a small boxer. Jinx's used to belong to one of our great danes. With the buckles it would be much easier because the dog's head is often bigger than the neck so more collars could fit different sizes.

Tigerlily- I've never met a dog that didn't pull on a prong collar. The reward is often better than the pain of the prong collar.

 

[Dlilly]

A few people are wanting to use prong collars. Can someone tell me why they are so bad? I couldn't find 1 fact about them online. Most of the sites were promoting them….

 

[tigerlily46514]

I CAN! I CAN!! I CAN TELL YOU why prong collars are so bad.

#1 reason why you do not want to buy a prong collar--------they do not work. Your dog---if he is like most dogs----- will not learn to stop pulling just cuz he is choking. Amazingly, and sadly, most dogs find some way to ignore the fact they are choking, and STILL excitedly pull their owners down the street, all the while, DAMAGING their inner throats. Dogs who wear choke collars tend to wear them clear til the day they die of old age, they never get 'weaned' off the choke collar,
cuz, choke collars do NOT NOT NOT prevent the dog from pulling.

Yeah, that's right, your dog can damage his inner throat. The delicate things in a dog's throat, like his thyroid, (thyroid meds are costly, btw)
his windpipe, nerves, blood vessels, etc, were never ever ever intended to bear strong weight, nor to withstand choking on a regular basis. Damage does occur. On dog autopsys, they easily spot dogs who wore choke collars.

besides, it's just plain ol cruel and mean, and painful to the dog , besides damaging to the dog's body, and possibly to his mind, as well. Sometimes, the choke collars do not release again, or get caught in fur, so the dog is being choked even when he is walking nicely....for how long the choking will continue, no one knows how long til owner realizes his dog is being strangled...



If a person can't take the time to teach their dog a loose leash walk, (and lol, it DOES take TIME to teach this)

then a better option is to use a chest harness with front clip, or, a martindale collar,
or a head halter if you can get your dog to like his head halter.<---vip to never ever ever yank a dog who is wearing a head halter, as you can hurt his neck!!! but, you don't need to, as a dog in a head halter HAS TO follow you.

 

[tigerlily46514]

HERE ARE JUST A FEW LINKS you can find,
if you google things like "choke collars ineffective" or "choke collars damaging" etc,

http://www.peta.org/about/faq/What-are-the-dangers-of-using-choke-and-prong-collars.aspx


this one has many links all in one link:
http://fuckyeahanimalwelfare.tumblr.com/post/9524618137/never-shock-a-puppy-choke-and-shock-collars

"Make no mistake however, those prongs do cause pain-that`s why they work***. If you doubt that, slip one over your wrist and give it a solid yank. Then think about doing that to your neck."
Leslie Fisher Pat Miller
Certified Trainer Affiliate
Peaceable Paws.
http://bigdogshugepaws.com/choke-prong-or-shock-collars


***many further links below dispute if prong collars "work" on most dogs, even "most" of the time, even when done by ppl very well trained in "proper" use of prong or choke collars.. You see THAT a lot, "well, if the dog still pulls in prong collar, you are doing it wrong" etc etc.

 

[tigerlily46514]

Choke chain
· May be effective for some dogs if used under the supervision of a Certified Professional Dog Trainer (CPDT)
· Ineffective without specific training techniques
· Can cause coughing, tracheal damage and pain
· Can cause or exacerbate serious behavior problems, such as fear and aggression
Prong collar
· May be effective for some dogs if used under the supervision of a Certified Professional Dog Trainer (CPDT)
· Can easily cause pain
· Often fitted too loosely or too tightly, which makes it ineffective
· Can cause or exacerbate serious behavior problems, such as fear and aggression
· Some people object to the way the prong collar looks
http://www.aspcabehavior.org/articles/22/Walking-Equipment-for-Your-Dog.aspx

 

[tigerlily46514]

Dilly, since i sense you are looking for links to send to someone, i will give a few better ones, the first ones i posted were just first ones i saw:

//...........In addition to the fact that the dog training prong collar can result in having negative effects on a dog, it has also been known to have absolutely no impact on the behavior of a dog at all, with the exception of increasing the dog’s pure will, and pain tolerance level. Many dogs, after having the prong collar used on them for a period of time, eventually build up an incredible tolerance to the painful pinching effect of the collar, and as a result become even more difficult to walk or train. If this is the case with your dog and you turned to the prong collar as a last resort, you surely have made the training task a much longer and more challenging event than it needs to be............Overall, the dog training prong collar is an ineffective, harsh and unnecessary training tool........//

http://www.positivedogtraining.org/article/dog-training-prong-collar/

 

[tigerlily46514]

//Given that these kinder and more effective alternatives exist, the role of
painful choke and shock collars is questionable at best. In reality, their use
is unnecessary and often ineffective. In many ways, they may even be
cruel.//

http://www.urbandawgs.com/articles/choke.pdf

 

[tigerlily46514]

good read which mentions HOW these torture devices ever got popular in the first place: http://www.dogremedies.com/dangers_choke_pinch_shock.html

 

[tigerlily46514]

WOW, such collars can damage a dog's EYES? i did not know that...i knew these prong and choke collars can damage tracheas, inner musculature, nerves, thyroids, windpipes, blood flow to the dog's brain, etc, but their eyes?
http://1stsat.cynod.com/CollarsandEyeIssues.pdf



http://www.pitbulls.org/blog/possible-dangers-prong-collars

 

[tigerlily46514]

//According to neurologist and animal welfare advocate, Jean Zuniga, MD, PhD, these collars can actually cause permanent damage in the dog.
Strokes happen because not enough blood gets to the brain. Blood flow stops when an artery carrying blood to the brain becomes blocked. The technical name for this type of brain attack is cerebral infarction. It is also called ischemic stroke. "Ischemic" refers to a condition caused by a decreased supply of oxygenated blood to a body part.

Other behavioral side effects could occur, including fear of a certain person or a certain area. Or worse, the dog could become aggressive toward people or places he or she associates with the pain.

Even in experienced hands, it can take several repeated attempts before the dog associates the shock or choke with the wrong behavior and even more before he or she learns how to avoid it by acting the correct way. Then, of course, there is the chance of accidentally pulling on the chains at the wrong times or a shock collar malfunctioning, confusing the dog even more.


According to recent medical studies, the use of these methods can cause numerous types of physical injuries to a dog, including vertebrae damage, fainting, spinal cord injuries, organ malfunctions, bruising of the trachea, larynx or esophagus and sharp headaches.//

http://www.learningdog.com/articles/article/864436/7096.htm