Discussion in 'Dog Sports' started by fly30, Mar 31, 2011.

  1. fly30 Experienced Member

    Here is a video I edited for your, dog lovers from the other side of the world :) I commented the video in English for you so I hope you can understand what I'm saying.
    This was Sunday's session. Fly had a sparkle I think. She's improving very quickly at the moment, I'm so happy.
    running_dog and tigerlily46514 like this.

  2. mewzard Experienced Member

    Wow, that so impressive to see. I've tried digging up video of GSD's actually hearding, but never come up with anything great. I like the way the littlest one whilst 'playing' was still able to have that distance and would watch them - i think Oka would try to play!
    I love the way Fly went straight back and went though the fenced area the second time. She is a real jem!
  3. fly30 Experienced Member

    Thank you mewzard. Bill, the baby dog, has a very very interesting genetical background and his ancestors where selected on work only. It's not surprizing to see him so interested. He's really half way between playing and working. He's got a wonderful aptitude to stay opposite his leader and that's a very good start. I love this little dog.
    Yes Fly is showing a lot of devotion now. She really surprised me at the fence. Usually, she would not get in. Last time, one of the sheep attacked and she had to step back. I had to work on my way of leading as well. A deep but quiet voice seems more suitable and Fly doesn't get excited nor frightened. She understands better. We both improved a lot and I start to have a lot of fun and can't wait for the next herding day (that'll be in 3 weeks !)
  4. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    FASCINATING! now, at about 1:20 min,
    the dog runs off, to be able to approach the sheep at right speed/right distance.
    is *that* something the dog is TAUGHT, or he already knows that?
    to see Fly coming into the video! THE ENGLISH was much appreciated, thank you!! lol!:ROFLMAO:
    how does the dog know he did the correct move from so far away? Is verbal praise called over to Fly, or what?
  5. fly30 Experienced Member

    Thank you tigerlily :) The dog running off left to approach the sheep is Esmé. She was taught this. First we have to teach the dog to keep out and we have a cue for that on top of the direction. You can hear the young lady say "Fiiiil" wich is her cue for that. Any dog tends to go straight to the sheep and this would end up in a big panic.
    Every move is either a verbal cue or a body attitude on behalf of the shepherd. A border collie naturally remains opposit to the shepherd
    When you move around, the dog moves around as well. This is quite clear if you look at Bill on the video as this is the only thing he is working on at the moment as he does it naturally.

    When you see Fly lying down, she had a cue. When you see her starting again, she had another one. That's why I say that herding helps a border collie to controle his instinct. He has to herd for his leader, not for himself, and this he has to learn.
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  6. fly30 Experienced Member

    Another great herding day, Fly is now fully at work and can bear pressure. She's no longer affraid of nasty sheep trying to fight against dogs. We went in the fields and on the road and I put place Fly more or less wherever I wanted. A pleasant team work, we're having fun.
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  7. fly30 Experienced Member

    After all this time, here is our latest video. Fly is learning how to "push" the herd. This is a difficult notion for her as she is used to bringing the herd to me and now, I want her to push it away from me. We'll get there.

    Dogster and tigerlily46514 like this.
  8. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    SO FUN TO WATCH!!! Great job!! Fly is so so lucky to get to herd!!!

    Now, does Fly lie down on your cue?? Or is that "his" decision to do so, once he gets where you want him?

    i can never get over how much Fly looks so much like Buddy, same size, same build, same markings, even moves like Buddy moves, is like watching my own dog herding!!:ROFLMAO: Even down to the very slight break in white circle of fur on his left side of his neck, Fly is Buddy's twin.:ROFLMAO:

    except my dog would be focused 500% on the other dog,:rolleyes: and would stay busy chasing the other dog around, than the sheep!!
    Dogster likes this.
  9. fly30 Experienced Member

    hehe ! Fly can't really be Buddy's twin 'cause she's a girl :)

    Everything she does at herding is on cue. She is not allowed to decide on major behaviours. All she can do is decide to chase after a sheep trying to escape, however, if I call her back, she should come back immediately. She does not have to work for herself but for me. And that's what is difficult at herding, having the dog work for you only.
    Dogster and tigerlily46514 like this.
  10. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    twin SISTER then!!

    Fascinating, i am in awe. I think, in the right hands of a trainer who knew about herding training, i think my Buddy would have potential for this------ IF he could be ONLY dog there!!:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
    Dogster likes this.
  11. fly30 Experienced Member

    Well you know, when a border collie is interested in sheep, other dogs don't exist anymore. You'd be surprised to see him at work. You discover another dog when herding.
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  12. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    It's hard to imagine, my dog in the presence of an unknown dog, and not be 500% of the DOG!!!
    (without me doing a lot of work to get him calm, etc)

    i would so so love to find this out about Buddy!!!
    Dogster likes this.
  13. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Could Fly focus on the sheep
    if you had a hot steak right by his face??

    It takes a stunning amt of work, to break Buddy's focus on an unknown dog,
    hot steaks, squeak toys, a new park to explore, a whole party of ppl to enjoy, food everywhere,
    you name it, Buddy ignores it all.....

    nope, he still stares at unknown dog with a very tough, almost unbreakable, laser sharp focus, you can almost envision green laser beams coming out of his eyes onto the other dog.

    i usually interrupt/prevent him from getting that far into his trance,
    but, i'm just sayin, it's hard to distract a dog-aggressive dog off of dogs. :ROFLMAO:
    Dogster likes this.
  14. fly30 Experienced Member

    I think she would prefer the sheep. Remember that, originally, sheep = food. Why do you think a dog goes herding ? He gathers the sheep (the food) and brings them to his big boss (you) in the hope that there will be something to eat in the end (in the dog's mind, when you have eaten, you'll allow him to eat). If your hierarchy is not quite clear (especially at herding because you are not too good at herding), the dog can start working for himself and very often, he'll start hunting. That's what you should not allow him to do at all. But that's purely interest.
    Dogster and tigerlily46514 like this.
  15. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Ah, that makes sense!!! I'd so so love to see this!! I'd so love to give Buddy a chance at it.
    Dogster likes this.
  16. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    I just googled herding dog training in my area, and the guy who wrote the forward for Caesar Milan "The Dog Whisperer" book is in my area,
    this guy appears in some Dog Whisperer DVDs,
    and teaches herding.
    i think i will pass on that trainer!:ROFLMAO: darn.

    then i found another, whose site describes how to apply choke collars before class....:rolleyes:
    Dogster likes this.
  17. fly30 Experienced Member

    Herding is a wonderful present for a border collie :)
    Dogster and tigerlily46514 like this.
  18. fly30 Experienced Member

    Forget about the choke collar one !
    The best way to find herding places is to talk on border collie forums. There a plenty of unknown places, very small associations like the one I go to, very cheap and just as good as expensive ones.
    Dogster and tigerlily46514 like this.
  19. Dogster Honored Member

    WOW!!!! That is AMAAZING!!!!:eek::D SO exciting to watch!!!! I'm learning so much about herding!!!!;)
  20. fly30 Experienced Member

    We went for our last herding day. After that, the sheep will go to the mountains for the summer.
    Fly did a good work and we had an enjoyable trip in the woods, very tricky but funny. Fly was a good help.
    We also worked on technical details for pushing the herd, she did well. However, she tends to stand up without being asked when I ask her to lie down and remains too close to the sheep.

    tigerlily46514 and Dogster like this.

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