Easy-cheesy Way To Teach "heelwork"

Discussion in 'General Dog Training' started by tigerlily46514, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. Ripleygirl Experienced Member

    Brilliant thread, guys, I hadn't found this one till Tigerlily updated it...(y)Thank you Tigerlily! I am still working on heelwork with Ripley ( loose leash heel) close off lead heelwork as in this thread... I have worked on the elephant trick with Ripley and this has improved her turns no end... But she still slacks on 180 degree turns ( although her 90 degree turns are pretty damn good now!) I love the hold position practices that Orpheum uses. That is great practice! Will be trying them tomorrow! Love the thread! Thank you!
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  2. Pawtential Unleashed Experienced Member

    Rally O is actually a series of exercises.


    Here is a full list of signs:

    And a great demonstration of most of the moves:
  3. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Ah, there's only a FEW of those Buddy can't do yet,
    but, hard part would be-------does the owner have to MEMORIZE what steps in what order?
    or are there cue cards held up or does someone call out what to do next?

    i don't think *I* could memorize that many steps in perfect order,:oops:
    if *I* COULD, i know my dog could do the steps!! :ROFLMAO: I've worked very hard focusing on his position, on precision, on keeping him in perfect position at all times,
    for turns,
    for twirls/complete circles,
    for stops, for various speeds. Buddy could do almost all of these steps already,
    but no way could i memorize the order of so many steps....:(
  4. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    and how cool, ONLY THREE steps backwards??:D I've got Buddy to do tons of steps backwards, but only three will be a cinch!

    It's hard to get a dog to walk in a STRAIGHT LINE backwards,
    but, i lined up chairs to make an aisle of sorts,
    and then trained him to walk straight (he used to know "back up" but, i wasn't that worried about how straight he was back then)
    after he had mastered walking backwards straight,
    then i widened the "aisle" of chairs, and got in beside him, and then he "got it".

    but only 3 steps would be easy.:D
  5. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    .the one thing we still have trouble with,
    is a dead stop from a FAST paced heel.:rolleyes:

    Medium or slow paced, Buddy has it,:D
    but, if i come to dead stop, when going very fast, Buddy often takes ONE MORE STEP, and then, on his own, backs his own self up to be in position again.:LOL: It's actually kind of cute how HE backs his own self up.

    but Rally-O doesn't seem to even ask for a dead stop from a FAST paced heel, whew!
  6. Pawbla Experienced Member

    I get dizzy easily so this would be very nice for me, haha.

    Just a question, what is the meaning of "forge and wrap"?
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  7. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    //" I get dizzy easily so this would be very nice for me, haha."//

    yeah, now i feel better, to hear a young person who can't do the elephant trick either!!:ROFLMAO:

    //"Just a question, what is the meaning of "forge and wrap"?//

    I think it means when dog is slightly forward----dog is forging in front of you, instead of staying beside you in exact correct spot,

    and slightly wrapping around your leg, so that dog is keeping his head in front of your leg to see your whole entire face, sort of curving his front and head in front of your leg, see?

    instead of keeping himself beside you, not even slightly in front of you.
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  8. Pawbla Experienced Member

    Ah! Yes, it's a very annoying thing in a heel, haha. Thanks!
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  9. Ripleygirl Experienced Member

    well explained, Tigerlily!!!!
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  10. MaryK Honored Member

    Shiloh is AWESOME! Yes he does have the look of Cattle dog about him, great dogs:)

    Going to try the cheese trick with Ra Kismet. Just wondering though, as he ADORES cheese but doesn't get it often, will he remain on FOUR paws and not try the WALK ON TWO PAWS GAZING AT THE CHEESE:) Been known to do that (not with cheese in my mouth but in my hand:LOL:) at times in hopes of getting a treat when the trick he's learning isn't working for him - it's his 'aren't I just so GOOD at this one I REALLY deserves a treat". He's the world's best at forging, is there a championship for forging he'd win paws down, if he did the trick like Shiloh I'd be in seventh heaven.

    On the subject of getting giddy - note for all the humans here - try the dancers trick of 'spotting'. Note an object at the right height and when turning look at the object each time it comes into view. That way you will not get dizzy, it's how dancers can keep turning without getting dizzy. Should work LOL even with cheese in your mouth:D

    Great posts and laughed a lot but learned a lot too:LOL: Way to go, learn and laugh at the same time.
  11. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    //' Just wondering though, as he ADORES cheese but doesn't get it often, will he remain on FOUR paws and not try the WALK ON TWO PAWS GAZING AT THE CHEESE:)"//

    I don't know, but, i suspect, if the dog IS rewarded for doign that, he'll keep doing that.
    If you click/treat fast enough,
    when dog is just standing in correct position,
    and then advance along, one step at a time, focusing on your dog's being in exact correct position,
    and rewarding ONLY the dog being in exact right position, (not for leaping up)
    i *think* you could do fine.

    Try it, let us know!!??
    MarkK, i sometimes suspect, you love your dog so much, that you give your dog treats for trying, even when your dog is doing wrong thing?:ROFLMAO: like, out of sympathy or something!!:love: which is understandable, and kind of adorable, *if* i am right, hee hee (from other posts of yours).

    btw, prior to teaching this heelwork,
    i HAD taught a cue called "get in" (which i call "left side"). I had previously trained my dog to stand in a certain position, on my left side, on cue. Then we began to take steps forward.
    It *might* be necessary to teach THAT "left side" cue first............??? not sure.

    for real, this kind of heelwork, is NOT as hard as i'd always thought it'd be!!! who knew?
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  12. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    If this doesn't work, i think i heard someone mention, that for very short dogs,
    they used a target stick,
    (a stick which dog was trained to touch his nose to) but i don't know how you get the eye contact, or how that works, never did it myself.
  13. MaryK Honored Member

    Guilty Tigerlily of loving *my* boy so much he does get treats when he shouldn't you're so right :D - not sympathy though :D but oh those eyes they get me in all the time. I PROMISE to reform, 'harden my heart' and ignore the "ain't I just the cutest looks". I think as I progress with my clicker training he will progress LOL probably at a faster rate than I do. I know in my heart of hearts I shouldn't be so 'lenient' at times because a well educated dog is MORE of a companion than one who 'plays up' at times. LOL my only 'defence' is the start he had in life born wild and on death row and THOSE EYES:D Plus he brought sunshine back into Zeus and my life, after Zeus' sister Tiger Lily crossed suddenly too young, after having a successful cancer operation - cancer respored. No excuses though, I need to 'toughen up'.

    He's sooooooooooooo willing to please, it's up to me, my responsibility to get him to being the best dog ever and I feel bad when I goof. It's not Ra Kismet's fault at all - I am the guilty party(n)

    But I have NEVER reward his 'jumping up' I turn and ignore this behavour as it's not something I wanted to encourage and don't think it's cute at all. But when he comes and walks through the door on his hind legs or stands right up after coming in - yes he's rewarded and I guess in HIS mind the reward is for doing 'stand right up' not 'come' so he tries that one whenever he maybe doesn't want to do what I want or more likely doesn't understand what I want. He doesn't jump when he's off the lead, like when I come home or anything like that, he learned really fast that 'sit' got the desired results - a treat. BUT when we work on lead training he will jump up and generally 'play up' at the start.

    I will start with him as you say, getting him in the correct position click/treat ONLY when he does it correctly and will not attempt any more advanced tricks in that area of training until we BOTH have this down pat. Will look through the dog training area of the forum to find the CORRECT way to do the 'get in' cue and work on that until he's got it.

    Will start with 'left side' cue. With his lead work, he was really good until he went to the awful dog school, that's when the problems started and I am trying to rectify them.

    The hardest is that when I first put on his lead - he will sit like an angel when I do this, remain seated at the door, even after I open it until I'm ready to move outside (I don't hold him in wait for long) BUT when we first move outside into the drive way - he will now start to grab his lead and pull like mad. I have tried letting the lead go loose but that hasn't worked he's a strong boy and I really dislike having a tug of war with him. I don't scold but it IS frustrating to have to go through an unwanted 'performance' before we can proceed with 'dignity'. Once we get through this, I have found 'sit' works and I do not move off until he's sitting quietly (after he's performed in an in appropriate manner), he's fine then, just a few small things to fix when he's actually out walking, I'll be looking for help on that too, but all in all the chaps pretty good on the lead. And to make it worse, Zeus who NEVER jumped, grabbed his lead and has always been the 'perfect gentleman' (he won ribbons at trials) has now decided that 'if Ra Kismet can do that I'll give it a try" and he misses the lead and catches me - which hurts. LOL why can't he teach Ra Kismet the right way, not learn Ra's naughty habits.

    Going to re-read/watch on clicker training so I don't goof up and off this morning for our first training session with the clicker. Thank you so much Tiger Lily I really appreciate your help so much:D
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  14. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    lol, MaryK, that is so cute, you give treats during lessons for cute eyes!!:ROFLMAO: I get it, i get it!!
    ONe thing you could try, to fulfill your urge to treat those cute eyes,
    and your dog's urge to get a treat, is,
    ask for a trick he DOES know, treat that,
    and then, return back to the lesson at hand. You can't really dole out treats for cuteness :ROFLMAO: during lessons, it will confuse the dog.

    I do that for my dog, seems to satisfy him and please him, and then, we go back to work on the new trick. remember, you can click/treat just part of the correct move, you do not have to wait til dog does whole, complete final trick,
    you can click/treat each step of the way.

    //'BUT when we first move outside into the drive way - he will now start to grab his lead and pull like mad."//

    I taught this EasyCheesy heelwork INSIDE my house,
    then in my yard,
    and then, after my dog was grrrrrrrreat at it, then i occasionally have him practice it in the street. I do NOT use this to just walk my dog, i save this for fancy stuff, not just walking down the street.

    When you say "grab the lead" is that the Australian way of saying your dog pulls forward? You do not mean the dog is biting his leash, right? You mean your dog is pulling forward so leash is very taught, right?

    I had tons of trouble with that one, oh did i! :LOL: wow, i had trouble. Part of my trouble, was, that other family members who also walk my dog, allowed my dog to pull.

    Here are some great videos on help with "loose leash walking"
    Kikopup demonstrates several ways to work on pulling,
    and the one that helped *my* dog the most, was where she demonstrates calling dog BACK to her. That seemed to really help my dog "reset" his brain/snap out of the pull pull pull mode.

    Again, teaching a dog to walk nicely on a leash, is whole other deal than my "Easy Cheesy Heelwork". The heelwork WAS EASY, but teaching a dog to not pull, is hard, imo,
    and requires CONSISTENCY.

    you can't let dog pull, not even when he is a few feet from the mailbox, just has to learn, "Pulling gets you nowhere."

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  15. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    //"Going to re-read/watch on clicker training so I don't goof up and off this morning for our first training session with the click"//

    Also, don't worry if you do make a mistake as you find your way with the clicker.
    I have made tons of mistakes,
    but, my dog always stands ready to give me another chance to get it right!!:ROFLMAO:

    oh, some of the mistakes i've made,:LOL: got my dog to do some tricks completely wrong! hilarious! In hindsight, i could see and understand how Buddy thought, too! But even tricks i have botched up, i can go back, and reteach it right!
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  16. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Here is another, newer video, (not the one i used, but, still, a great video)

    This is unrelated to Easy Cheesy heelwork, imo,
    this "loose leash" walking is whole other skill, imo:
    Dogster likes this.
  17. MaryK Honored Member

    Yes those eyes get me:D Honestly the boys so cute, the head on one side, one ear raised slightly higher than the other, tip of tongue just peaking out and THAT LOOK :LOL: Will do as you say, that way we're BOTH satisfied. Poor Rakins, he must think I'm the biggest dope on the planet and he's so smart and willing to learn too:confused: I must have confused the chap no end.

    One question. When he doesn't do the right trick and I change to one he does like - do I 'wait a moment' BEFORE asking for a new trick - or just change tack immediately?

    Oh dear, having lived in so many countries I get confused as to which country uses what expression.

    //grabbing the lead// means to me BITING at the lead like he would a tug toy. HE thinks it's fun but 'fraid I disagree on that score:( . So help is needed on that one BIG TIME!! It was suggested I use Vicks vapour rub on the lead but I am VERY reluctant, in fact RIGHT AGAINST using that, or anything else, which will cause him pain and Vicks sure tastes vile and stings, tried it just to see what it did to me - NO WAY would I use it on *my* boy.

    However, he does also pulls forward. This is very interesting too - I first started him with loose lead training, as I was taught way back with Zeus and Tiger Lily and he was fine. Then the wretched dog school:mad::mad::mad: had a real fit and we were 'made' to make a young pup walk on a 'tight' lead in fact expected to 'drag' the dog into 'full heel' (what the woman did with one very nervous white designer fluffy made me feel literally sick):mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: - and THAT's when the trouble started only took three weeks to wreck a good dog, actually to be strictly correct, 2 and a half, I walked out in the middle of class never to return.

    After watching the videos (both downloaded to be watched again and again until I GET IT to retrain) I understand FULLY why dogs will pull more etc. My own instincts tell me that a tight lead causes tension in the dog - I relate to what I would like and having someone hold me tightly on a lead would make me pull away. Plus WE TENSE UP WHEN NERVOUS, UPSET ETC so a 'tight' lead will give the dog that feeling - silly me common sense when you have it explained and THINK about what you're being advised. Also, when lunging a horse, if the horse pulls out no way can a human hold them, so we let the leading rein go COMPLETELY LOOSE - horse stops pulling out immediately - no resistance. My personal feeling on this is that DOGS are some what the same, least restraint and they stop - add MORE restraint i.e. tight lead and they'll pull against it. Videos were VERY INFORMATIVE thank you so much:)

    Working INSIDE THE HOUSE - house here is VERY small but will take a look around and see what I can move/rearrange as this will be the VERY BEST option. If that's impossible, will see what I can do, then the garden/driveway (he cannot see the road from our drive way) will be next option. Long drive way so plenty of space there to put all the video says into practice without tripping over furniture/cats or banging into walls:LOL:

    I too have the same problem as you have Tiger Lily. Partner OCCASIONALLY bestirs himself to walk the dogs, especially Ra Kismet, and I always KNOW without being told when that happens as Ra is FAR WORSE. Partner doesn't know the difference between LOOSE LEAD and 'HEY DAD I CAN GO WHEREVER I WANT WHEN I WANT AND YOU WILL NOT DO A THING TO STOP ME =YEAH'! Then back with Mom - 'HEY DAD LET ME DO WHAT I WANTED - YOU'RE SOOOOOOOOOOOO MEAN:eek:'

    Feel better that you've also had //tons of trouble with that one// and you've made it through:D

    New training session:

    Work inside, as per video, on loose lead training (or outside in driveway if that proves totally impossible).

    Then, when we've corrected the naughty things, move out to the street and surprise neighbors by walking along like a 'true gentleman':D Which he is at heart:D

    Ra doesn't pull to the extent my arms are outstretched and I'm being 'dragged along' but he does pull. So - as per above woooweee with the clicker - new dog coming up:D

    When do you think I should do the 'heel work with him? I don't want to rush him and would rather he walked along outside like a gentleman first:)

    Thank you, I feel such a fool when I make mistakes with the clicker and I KNOW Ra wonders what I'm about - but hey that clicker is AMAZING. ONE session and another 'side benefit' so far today he's COME IN WHEN CALLED without star gazing around YEAH! LOL will see how tomorrow goes he may 'test me' and back slide a little:D

    Now advice PLEASE on the lead biting - as now Zeus has decided to do the same thing and he NEVER did it before he hurts too as he misses the lead and gets me - a few yowls of pain have been heard at times:eek:

    Thank you so much for all the time and effort you give so readily to help *my boy* become the very best doggy around town. Believe me I shall be recommended this forum to others as there are a quite a few dogs around this area who are worse than Ra on the lead. In fact, he's been praised for being good - LOL I smile sweetly and keep stum - as he's not always good:)
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  18. MaryK Honored Member

    oops I meant 'recommending' this forum - I did do a degree in English lit:eek:
  19. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    //"One question. When he doesn't do the right trick and I change to one he does like - do I 'wait a moment' BEFORE asking for a new trick - or just change tack immediately?"//

    When i do that, (throw in a well known trick to reward the dog, just to reward the dog!:LOL: ) I just do it normal.
    I ask for the old trick, give him a treat, praise him, tell him how cute he is,
    and NOW he is all happy again, :rolleyes: and i did not reward a 'wrong' thing..

    ..and now my dog is more willing to work again, and then i take up wherever i was before he got all antsy. :rolleyes:
    I don't wait, but i never ever hurry during tricks lessons, i am real slow and easy, just praising him and having fun. I laugh a lot when we train, and the dog is wagging that tail.

    I know, if i mess up,
    and i do! I think we all do, and those are some of the most hysterical moments, is when you realize what your dog THOUGHT you wanted!:ROFLMAO:
    My dog always gives me another chance to get it right!:LOL: Yours will, too!

    i go really slow, from step to step, sometimes moving just an inch more:ROFLMAO: , click/treat,
    and repeat that a few times,
    then another inch more, click/treat that a few times, or a few days! :ROFLMAO: ha ha!

    i am probably one of the slower trainers, depending on how fast my dog is "getting it".

    that also cuts down on my dog's failure rate, too, when all he has to do, is one more inch. My dog seems to get more antsy if he is NOT getting it, so i set him for success, asking only for another inch at a time. I also keep most of his daily lessons down to about 10 minutes or 15 minutes, with one or two longer lessons each week.

    Even AFTER your dog obviously "gets it" a dog needs to practice it daily for a while, til he has nailed down solid.
    and then, you can try having him do it out in the yard, or other rooms, etc. Doing a trick he knows amidst distractions can be whole other deail!:LOL:

    It will be fun for you to find your own way, as you go along, what works best for you and your dogs, and discover this dog's ways, too. Every dog out there is unique.
    You might find, that some tricks, he gets RIGHT AWAY!! Like magic!and other tricks, you might struggle.
    You might find, that your dog has certain types of trick he really really enjoys,
    and other tricks, he'd just as soon skip that one!:ROFLMAO:
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  20. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    //"//grabbing the lead// means to me BITING at the lead like he would a tug toy"//

    OHhh, okay, here's an idea, you are not the only one. Lotta ppl around here make same remark. Some person here said she just bought a chain leash, and her dog no longer found it fun to bite that one.:LOL:

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