Blue Merle Border Collies

Discussion in 'Dog Breeds' started by krazykaine3, Aug 15, 2008.

  1. snooks Experienced Member

    Soap box if fine. I have one too. If we all get up on it now and then we do good work for dogs in need. As a fellow fosterer thanks for what u do!!

  2. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Ey, i just signed up to volunteer at the local dog rescue! They immediately said, "Foster home?" but i said not yet, cuz i have semi-gangsta dog at my house, it's too soon. but i am gonna be assigned to help with dogs at those displays where they bring shelter dogs to like, malls and stuff to get people to look 'em over.
    And maybe some transport, they might train me for other stuff, too.
  3. justjesse197 Well-Known Member

    Kaine- Well said:doghappy:
  4. justjesse197 Well-Known Member

    Very true, but the breeders she is referring to, do NOT breed merle to merle. They are very careful in which dogs they are going to breed, and do amazing things with their pups.
  5. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    You make some excellent points, and everyone has a right to their opinion, but mine is still, "Every dog that is BOUGHT IS one less dog to make it off death row". I am really am sorry if you interpret that as "degrading" remark about the people buying dogs,(?) cuz i do not want to offend other dog lovers, no i do not, and you are obviously a dog lover, and a knowledgable dog lover, as well,
    so please accept my apology if it is my words you are referring to there, (?) not sure, but if it was, i am sorry, cuz it was not my intent to hurt anyone's feelings at all.
    YOur work with rescues is amazing, that is what i would like to do myself, but i am still in learning phase, to learn enough to be able to help with these things.

    i think folks don't realize that when they buy dogs and support breeders, many of whom are puppy mills as you describe above, i don't think most people realize they COULD get the exact same type, age, breed, gender dog at a shelter or rescue, if they searched for it. I know, when i ever started perusing Petfinders, over time, i became shocked at the selection of fabulous dogs there. I had no idea such dogs were available through pounds and rescues, i had figured one would have to go a breeder to find such wonderful dogs. But i was wrong.

    Maybe my post is aimed more at general readers than at YOU particularly. You apparently ARE part of the solution, but most are not, compared to the masses of America that do keep puppy mills alive.

    I can always have hope, that even ONE person reading my post above, will consider going to Petfinders. That person may not have the knowledge and access to super-duper breeders like you obviously do have. Probably MOST people do not have either your level of knowledge and access to super-duper breeders, and could not even distinguish a super-duper breeder from a regular one. Ha, i probably could be fooled myself!! (uhm, that is actually a pretty low bar there, :msngiggle:heehee) I'd have to research, and write and to Tx and Snooks for advice, etc etc.

    I think it'd be hard, for even a person trying to distinguish the super-duper breeders from regular or even terrible ones, to be sure they HAD the super-duper kind that is in it to improve the breed's health, etc. These kind of people, like me, oughta just go to the pound, save a perfectly lovable and healthy good-looking dog--- and avoid risk of supporting a puppy mill. Uhmm another thing i want to point out, since it seems i am back up on the soap box, is, for PUREBRED LOVERS, over half of all dogs in pounds ARE PUREBREDS. Just a lil FYI to any potential dog lovers looking to get a new dog.

    Searching through Petfinders DOES take time, sometime one has to wait if there is a list of "must haves" but it is probably about same amount of time as searching for an excellent, careful, knowledgable breeder. Even buying a dog through a breeder, you can easily end up with a dog with health problems or issues, or whatever problem one is afraid of-- that makes them avoid shelter dogs.

    And so many people, even when buying from reputable breeders, which are way harder to find, but there are some just like you describe, end up with a dog that is not what they expected in one way or another, dispite the breeder's careful vetting of the client's expectations and the parent dogs' health history.
    But, we all do have perfect right to our opinions. :msnohyes: ONE BY ONE, TIL THERE ARE NONE. RESCUE A DOG!! (unless you are super brilliant like poster above, in which case, carry on with your efforts to improve dog health)
  6. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Hopefully, the folks you describe ARE knowledgable enough to even distinguish a super-duper breeder from regular one who is out there cranking out puppies without putting the research into actually improving the breed's health--ie-breeding problems out, enhancing health by mating the two dogs with carefully researched family trees, testing, etc, etc. You are so correct, that is a ton of work, very much so. I don't think the bulk of breeders fall into that catagory and i think us regular people can't tell the difference without a lot of smarter people like you keeping us from making such a mistake.

    HOpefully, the folks "buying" the dog, can and do, actually find such a breeder that is in it for improving breed health. I still think it'd be hard to locate one, and distinguish it from regular dog breeder who is inadvertantly contributing to the dog overpopulation.
    But, see, i am NOT that knowledgable, i could not find a super-duper breeder without much guidance and research, and since Tx and Snooks live too far away to accompany me, i could still make mistake and go to someone just mating purebreds.

    I still think most folks fall way towards my end of the spectrum (of knowledge and ability to determine whether this breeder is in it to improve dog health)than yours. I think you are more the exception, i don't think someone like you is real representative of most folks buying dogs. (that is compliment)

    I still think most folks, UNLESS they are super brilliant like you are, (i don't think most are as smart as you are, do you? i can tell already from your posts, you are way way above average knowledge of dogs) I think us ordinary folks --like me--we all just oughta go rescue a perfectly great lil dog or BABY dog from a shelter or rescue, to avoid risk of supporting a puppy mill.
    And i can see the point in the ad you describe, but, in defense of the folks buying the dog, i don't think they realize how many dogs get put down, ( i did not really know til lately) and they COULD have saved one. No, they did not "kill" the dog, you are right, but they missed a chance to save one---that is the point i think. (and they may be supporting a puppy mill without even realizing it.)

    I don't think that the point of the ad was to make current dog owners feel bad, i hope NOT!! but i think their point was probably TO SWAY POTENTIAL DOG OWNERS who are on the prowl for new dog to get, to help reset America's attitude (uh, that actually takes a long time, and lotta effort!) about ways to get a new dog, and the overall, ripple effect of the choices this country makes in general.

    It is a fairly extreme ad, but it is an EXTREME problem, too! Some stats say as many 5 milllion per year are put down...IF i was smarter, i could break that down to per day, cuz 5 million is too big of number to get us to react. If i knew dogs per hour, that number is probably more powerful stat, but i don't have that number.
  7. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    KarzyKane, i just reread your post, and now realize, i shoulda also added in my response, i bet it IS frustrating for someone like you and your breeder to be lumped in with most other breeders and dog-buyers. I can see how that could happen, and i can imagine how that would be frustrating.
  8. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    You are correct, there are fees, sometimes fairly stiff, up to $250 was highest i have seen, (i'm currently fairly poor, so to me, this is huge amt) for a puppy or dog in rescue. A puppy or dog in a shelter are usually less, some for only $50, but more typically, the dog pound dogs, or "shelter" dogs are $80 to $100, sometimes up to $150.

    Some dogs on Petfinders are actually "on sale", like a close-out, those poor lil dogs are being overlooked when folks go down the row of cages.

    A few Petfinders dogs are almost free, the pound has got so attached, they just wanna find that dog a home, but true, not many are free, THEY GOTTA MAKE ENDS MEET TO KEEP THE MISSION GOING--but i have seen a few--"Adoption fee waived" kinda thing... I still enjoy reading the dog stories on Petfinders, under each photo..

    HOWEVER, i must point out, there is NO PROFIT whatsoever on this.

    I feel the money spent to reimburse the shelter or rescue is more to support a non-profit agency, as opposed to "buying" the dog.

    The rescue, who has spayed/neutered the dog, tons of medical fees, fed it, transported it, etc. These fosters familys--dawg bless 'em all---, nor the agency, makes NO money off this, NO PROFIT AT ALL---- i do not believe they even come close to JUST BREAKING EVEN. The ones i know all LOSE and invest their own money on these dogs they are trying to find homes for.

    Some of these dogs even had fairly elaborate medical bills, like heartworm, etc.

    NO wait, i did once see a Giant Schnauzer, who had REEeeeally hefty fee to adopt, but now i can't recall why that was. LIke hundreds of dollars...i remember this dog, because it's exceptionally high fee stood out from the typical fees on Petfinders.

    But typically, a shelter dog(=dog-pound dog) is about $50 to $100, some up to $150, sometimes more if there have been med bills. Some parts of the country trend a little higher or lower.

    And a rescue dog, one that is being fostered in a volunteer's home --who is feeding that dog and taking it to the vet, etc, is typically $200 to $250.
    THERE IS NO PROFIT. They aren't doing this for a living, or for the fun of seeing cute lil puppies running around their home for a month--- they are all losing money. Some of the more astute rescues may indeed break even, cuz if they don't, they can NOT continue their mission to get every dog a chance to have a home of it's own.

    Breeders of dogs can often charge $600, and it can go up from there. Sure, some are less. Big variety of price ranges.
    Honestly, a super-duper breeder should not really even be breeding before they can ensure they could indeed place these babies into appropriate homes, should they? so if someone is buying a dog that will possibley go to the pound, the breeder is then financially supported and re-imbursed for overpopulating the dog world, since he didn't even have potential homes lined up very well.
    ONe "oops/owner back-out" may occur here or there, but the breeders that into the breed that they are working on improving genetic ines are not apt to be unable to hook the occasional "owner-back out" lil puppy up with a home.

    Buying a dog from a less than super-duper breeder is supporting dog overpopulation with your wallet.

    (EDIT: BY "SUPER-DUPER breeder", that is my word for the scientific kind who are fairly rare, and are trying to breed out purebred problems thing, who have done extensive research, know genetics, do testing, blood lines, etc etc etc. and are breeding for genetics of the breed. NOt just regular breeders. )

    There are already WAY WAY TOO MANY DOGS IN AMERICA, and if someone wants, say, a cocker spaniel (just picked that outa the air) and they go buy one, they are indeed, IF YOU LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE, supporting dog overpopulations with their wallets.
    They coulda just went to Petfinders, and picked one of those ALREADY BORN cocker spaniels, who are in a cage, waiting for someone to give them a chance to show how loving they are.

    I have been taught by others, like you, to respect the efforts of people who are seriously into the whole dog genetics/improve health, etc, so if someone knew of such a scientific breeder, who was, on purpose, mating up 2 cocker spaniels to remove whatever problem cocker spaniels have, specifically to make a healthier dog, well, then that is whole other thing. Those folks are not selling dogs to make a living, they are kinda like scientist who are into helping reduce the multiple heatlh problems that purebreds are so so prone to.

    other than that reason--breeding for some scientific breed-issue resolution---i still don't think, given the HUGE DOG OVERPOPULATION PROBLEM in America, that anyone else should be cranking out more puppies!!

    I just reeally have come to see that dog overpopulation is HUGE issue, with many components all playing together, and breeders are one of them.

    (whe i say breeders---i am exluding the scientific breeders like you work with there, i meant regular breeders who are out there filling up our country with dogs being born---- who do indeed compete with the ALREADY BORN but homeless dog-pound dogs---for the homes that are available, and then being killed through no fault of theirs...)

    Breeders could not keep adding to dog overpopulation if we quit buying their dogs, and if we all took our cash to support a nonprofit agency and get some cocker spaniel that is ALREADY been born...

    ...and tossed aside.

    (again, forgive me, i am mostly posting this for other folks like me, who really aren't smart enough to determine if the guy selling his dogs litters is trying to make a living, OR, carefully working with science and genetics through study, testing, familty trees of dogs, etc. etc. to improve that particular breeds overall health, etc)
    EVERYONE--Spay/neuter your dog!!---Okay, that is whole other soapbox. ha ha! i will quit!!
  9. dat123 Experienced Member

  10. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    NOw this is too cute, can't even stand how cute these baby border collies are, one looks merle to me.....
    Border Collie Rescue • View topic - XTREME cuteness Puppies Athens, TN

    Now this one sounds so sweet...Very classic merle lookin...
    Border Collie Rescue • View topic - Blue Merle "April" in Anderson, SC

    A brown and white one, don't see those every day!!
    Border Collie Rescue • View topic - Beautiful Brown/White BC in SLC

    Now this one is not a merle, but wow!! WHAT a looker!!!! EVEryone's taste are different, but to me, this dog is Movie Star says it is good with other dogs, which is something you will need. Wouldn't it be nice to know AHEAD of time that the dog you bring home IS good with other dogs? (some aren't -like mine!)...No chewing stage.... already housebroken..
    Border Collie Rescue • View topic - Rescued B/C in FLORIDA needs a home.

    HEre is a purebred, AKC registered, with dreamy BLUE eyes. Does he have eyelids there?
    Border Collie Rescue • View topic - Purebred registered young male

    Here is an INTERESTING looking red and white, reeeally unique look. Looks PB to me. 1 year old, gets on with other dogs. Perfect age!! Sounds like a fireball, if that is what you want? You sound like you might be the kind of person who could bring out the best in this here dog...
    Adopt a Border Collie: Duke: Petfinder

    Different, look at the fur looks to change color right by the eyes....? This one is more sweeter, mellow type, it says, HOW FUN TO KNOW AHEAD what your are bringing home to your current dog, huh?
    Adopt a Border Collie: Glen: Petfinder

    Back to babies...awww, this one is almost too young to be away from mamma..

    Okay, i been looking for 10 minutes, and i'm starting to run into the RARE looking ones now, only 10 minutes..IS THIS A RED AND WHITE MERLE? I TELL YA, THEY GOT EVERY KIND OF DOG YOU CAN THINK OF ON PETFINDERS!!!!
    Adopt a Border Collie: Mary: Petfinder

    OH, i keep forgetting--back to BABIES...

    Adopt a Border Collie: Derk - Adorable !: Petfinder

  11. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    Oh honey, I believe he'd be considered a SABLE, not a red. Soo pretty. ^^

    I am VERY, VERY against puppy mills, pet stores, etc. But at the same time, these ARE the dogs who end up shelters because some [censor] bought the cute fluffy puppy in the window and had no clue what he/she was getting into. Granted, by the time they end up in the shelter you are no longer supporting the puppy mills, but's a vicious circle that will never end. Backyard breeders are just the same. You can always tell the BC owners who had NO idea what they were getting into---when I meet them with my BC and a half(lol, Mud and Z) and happily greet them(it's like we're FAMILY, LOL!), they ask, "Are yours this CRAZY?" "Are yours HYPER?" etc. And my answer is always, "Well of course, they're BORDER COLLIES!" To which they usually acquire an expression of, "Great, they're ALL this way."

    Eventually, many years in the future, I want to start yet another BC rescue. (Lol, my family is just thrilled with this idea---"So let me get this want to take in MORE of these crazy things??" Well...YES!) That's a looong way away though.

    Lol, Tigerlily...I've BANNED myself from Petfinder entirely.

    I will not adopt any more dogs...
    I will not adopt any more dogs...
    I will not adopt any more dogs...
    I will not adopt any more dogs...
  12. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Good luck with that 'vow', Tx! YOu always crack me up!
    Does 'sable' mean red, then? I'll hafta google that color. Ha, i can just imagine your fam's faces whenever you talk of your dream to start up your own rescue, bah haha!

    Edit: i know what sable means now, ha ha! That lil baby dog i called "Gray"...wonder if it is one of these...

    Is interesting website for any border collie affecionados to see all the various colors and coats types. There is a smooth tail on the smooth coated BC, which reminds me of some other thread once but i forget whose dog it was..we all sorta thought her dog was a mix cuz it had a smooth tail....
  13. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    Lol I don't think the little "grey" was a lilac, but then again, lilacs are just interesting anyway. They're pretty and probably one of the hardest colors to find. The lilacs I've seen are kind of a rosey-grey.

    I know one of these guys and she is GORGEOUS. (Not specifically one of THOSE dogs, but a saddle BC.) She actually came from the pound and is now running goats for a friend of mine. I'm in LOVE with her--one of the prettiest BCs I've ever seen. My personal faves are creams, sables, saddle patterns, reds, and the plain old black/white or tris. Although the merles are heck, I love all of 'em. I do have a special weakness for reds, though. :dogwub:

    Now, before I get attacked.....I would never rush out a buy a rare-colored BC disregarding health. I can appreciate a gorgeous BC of a rare color because--they're nice to look at! IF they DID come from a reputable breeder, and are completely healthy, and their personality fits my lifestyle and my other dog's needs, THEN and only then would I get one. If I'm looking to rescue a dog, then I'm going to keep many of these things in mind.
    For instance, my next dog needs to be a middle-of-the-road male. Not too pushy, not too submissive, just kinda in-between. WHY? Mud is the dominant one of the household--I don't need any finicky females to cause problems with her. Zeke is a super-submissive baby who gets along with ANYONE as long as they aren't bullies. I've spent a lot of time working on his fear aggression and I do NOT need him to revert to that because I get a bully. Point being...if I go out looking for a dog, rescue or otherwise, and I find a dominant, GORGEOUS saddle female--I'm not getting her. She may be a lovely dog and a great pet, but she won't fit into my pack. So no. If I then find a plain old black/white boy who perfectly fits into my pack and we just click, then yes!

    SO...please do NOT attack me or Tigerlily for our spill on gorgeous colored BCs. They're nice to look at, and that can't be argued.
  14. sara Moderator

    This dog is prob. a double merle you can tell if he actually is by looking at his eyes, if there is any blue spots/speckles he will be a double merle. how's his hearing and eyesight? he's gorgeous btw.. I'd want him if he was deaf!
  15. sara Moderator

    The interesting thing about merle that o one has touched on yet, is that it's NOT a color. The dog in the above pic is a black/tan/white border collie. he just happens to have 2 dilution genes working together. the black is where there is no dilution, the blue is where there is one dilution, and the white (other than where the white should be in a normal colored BC) is where there are 2 dilution genes working together. merle is dominant, if it's present it will ALWAYS show up in some way, shape or form. Merle genetics fascinate me. [IMG]

    this is Mouse, my Black and Tan Double Dapple (Merle) Dachshund. the terminology is very different with Doxie's.... dunno why, but she is basically a blue double merle. but genetically she is a black and tan, with double dilution genes. But I happen to agree with TXCG and the OP... Merles are stunning! It's too bad it's such a dangerous color!!!
  16. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Ey thanks for the back up, Tx!! Btw, i was actually posting those various RESUCE AND DOG POUND DOGS above there, to try to lure in anyone thinking of "buying" a dog, to kinda show--- Petfinders does indeed have ANY kind of dogs you are wanting. (read thread headline, i was just following along, see?)
    As i said before, one may have to wait and keep searching if there is a list of "gotta be's" in the dog they are searching for, but if they KEEP ON LOOKING AND SEARCHING, the dog you want IS on Petfinders.

    Which kinda brings me round to you, Tx, my pal, if you do indeed need a certain type personality, in your next puppy, those PETFINDER rescue dogs are well known by the foster fam caring for it...heehee! NO mystery as to what it'll be like after that super fast puppy time is gone...AND they do have puppies, too. (i'll quit right there, Tx! promise!)

    That merle above, looks so familiar to me, i wonder if i tripped across it while posting available dogs for anyone wanting a dog, to drool over...? Ruffmutz, are you involved with border collie rescue? That is where i think i saw that dog..?
  17. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Ey, i'll probably get killed on this next bit of info, but something i never ever knew, was, long distance adoptions are often available. If someone saw a dog on Petfinders, and it was far away, there are rescues who may help get the dog to you, some of these rescues even have pilots!!! Others have dedicated volunteers to drive legs of the transport, one to the next, til the dog arrives to you, safe from death row.

    Me, i kinda did it that way, Buddy was going down in 24 hours. i figured even if the dog had issues (he did) we mighta been his best chance to reform. NOt cuz we were smart, oh no, not at all, when we got Buddy we knew nothing about aggressive dogs, never had one like that ever before. BUT We knew we were that committed to helping out whatever problems he mighta had.

    That said, i wanna relieve anyone thinking, "Well, i sure as heck don't want a dog with issues!!" ---- it is very easy to get a dog with a well known personality through rescue. REscue dogs are living with a family, who can tell you ALL about the dog, all about it.
    Even dog pound dogs can be temp-tested before adoption in some cases. Many rescues or shelters may help you find a way to have a dog-pound dog temp tested before adoption.

    At any rate, long distance dog adoption CAN be accomplished.
    Just a thought. don't everyone kill me now...
  18. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    I have a friend who is affiliated with a deaf dog rescue, and she used to transport quite often. Said her most INTERESTING was a huuuuge Dane that was going from Texas to Ohio. Phew! Many car changes with a dog that size---bless the transport volunteers!

    Lol, Tigerlily...I have skimmed through Petfinder some. The only reason why I'm trying not to look heavily is that it will better timing if I wait closer to the time that the potential pups would be born. So even if I do decide to go with another rescue, it would still be a loooong time away. And if I go searching Petfinder now, I'm sure to latch onto some dog and be terribly tempted to contact the foster/shelter NOW and end up with an extra dog sooner than expected. I did recently fall in LOVE with a BC/Bloodhound I found on Petfinder from the same shelter Mud came from. I actually found Mud on Petfinder. ^^ There's several BCs on there that I wish I could take home.

    What I'm wanting:
    -Male, 1 year at the most...although if I fell for a little older dog, well, what can ya do? Lol!
    -Middle-of-the-road personality>>Not super-submissive like Zeke, and definitely not dominant. Mud rules the roost and Zeke doesn't need a bully. He needs a relaxed, middle-of-the-road buddy who isn't going to bully him or reinforce his fears.
    -And of course, HEALTHY or if from a sketchy situation, on the road to becoming healthy again. But in terms of hips, eyes, ears, etc, healthy.

    Sara your Doxie is adorable!!! :D
  19. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Yeah it is Sara!! Doxies tend to be so interesting, a big dog in a little body.

    Tx, seems you do have the neatest connections, you seem SOOoo tied in to the dog world in so many different ways. I tell ya, i'm kinda jealous of you are getting a brand new dog, oh, the fun of the hunt! I am signing up for a local, small dog rescue that i met during seminar on dog behaviour, and who knows from there? I'd like to help in the transport, too, and maybe someday, if/when Buddy is ever reeeally rehab'd, i'd like to foster, too.

    AT the seminar, interesting thing, they said 3 dogs is more likely to have problems than 2 or 4. They said with 3, often one of the dogs is "odd man out". Now everyone with 3 dogs post how well your 3 dogs get on.

    Tx, you already got 3, right, so this oncoming dog will be #4, then?

    Jean, are you annoyed we have hijacked your wonderful and informative Trick and training website with chit chat lately? WE'LL DOON BE BACK TO TRAINING, PROMISE!! :msngiggle:HANG IN THERE JEAN!
  20. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    LOL. xD

    Aww, Tigerlily you always make me feel so good. ^^ LOL I mainly have ONE connection, my trainer, who has lots of connections herself. xDD Haha! And past clients of mine. But mainly my trainer, lol!!!

    Well, actually...I am currently HOUSING 5 dogs. My teacup chihuahua, who's pretty much fine with anything and everything. Zekers, Mudflap, Rusty, and my brother's dog is living with us right now--he's a Weim/GSP mix. And I'm trying to find a home for Rusty. The Weim/GSP is submissive too, and gets along with everything. So no problems there either. Lol, I have a housefull of sissies. xD

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