Tips For Dogs That Chase Prey.

[running_dog]

TX - yes that just about sums up my recall training .

How to have the perfect recall... Only call your dog when he is listening! I even have recall testers - I call "Hey boy!" and if he looks at me I'll risk a proper recall. But honestly Zac does have pretty good recall, he does listen almost all the time that's why I'm not going to waste his recall on a situation where it is doomed to failure.

 

[Amateur]

My old dogs had great recall ...
I once called whiskey off of chasing a rabbit by yelling "STOP"
We were totally surprised she did ... sometimes its the panic in your voice.
That and she had a little separations anxiety when it came to me.

Have you tried running in the opposite direction - they have to see you first which is probably not likely if'n they are chasing something. But practising walking away keeps them looking out for you.

 

[running_dog]

I do recommend running in the opposite direction and keeping your dog looking out for you (that is part of the lifestyle) but to be honest I've done all that (plus everything else in the books and a lot of things that aren't) until I'm purple in the face . Most dogs don't need what I've described but high prey drive dogs often DO.

LOL choice of chasing me or chasing bunny? Zac will chase the bunny first and then chase me with the bunny in his mouth .

 

[tigerlily46514]

//"LOL choice of chasing me or chasing bunny? Zac will chase the bunny first and then chase me with the bunny in his mouth"//
ditto for my dog, too... .

yes, my last dog, Toby, and the dog before him, both had marvelous recall, Craig could sic the dog onto a bunny or cat, and just as the dog got too close, Craig could recall the dog back to him. Worked every time, and Craig much enjoyed doing this, and showing this off to his pals. He also enjoyed bragging on this, and i suspect, those old memories/reflex almost, a lifetime of being able to sic his dog onto prey,
are some small sliver of the reason i am having sooooooo much trouble getting Craig to STOP trying to sic Buddy onto prey. Like i said, i do think training some men is harder than training dogs. (sorry to any guy reading this, is a joke)

we sort of took it for granted, that we would be able to do this with any dog....til we met Buddy...if i had KNOWN how difficult it would be to recall Buddy off of chasing prey,
i can look back, and spot some mistakes i made raising him, i can NOW, in hindsight, spot a few moments i could have handled things differently, to prevent this whole thing from getting as bad off as he is now... If i had read Rdog's posts on this a few years ago, i *might* not be having the problem i have now....

The first year or so i had Buddy, i COULD call him off prey. And always having dogs we could call off of prey, i took it for granted,and made mistakes.

and i have made mistakes.
I was at park with geese, and Buddy was offleash, as he always was back then,
and he ran towards a goose, and i called him back, as the goose dove into the river.

Second time, Buddy ran after a goose, as the goose got close to the small cliff where the river was, i called Buddy back,and of course, Buddy returned to me. He ALWAYS did back then.

Third goose, here is my mistake. I now stoooopidly think, that NOW Buddy has seen the small cliff, and has seen the river, and now, i stoooooopidly think, Buddy will stop his own self at the edge of the river.
Well, i said nothing as Buddy ran after that 3rd goose,
and i saw Buddy pause for a second, listening for my call, he heard nothing, and he jumped into the river after the goose. Telling the story today, i realize how stooopid i was.

"something" changed in Buddy's mind that day. He crossed a line, he crossed "some line" in his lil doggie mind, he learned the thrill of an independent chase, which is so self rewarding and addictive.
Also, i do think Craig egging Buddy to chase prey is also working against my efforts.

and now, i now have a dog i can not call off of prey.


Rdog, i am still reading and re-reading your last post on page before this one.....

 

[Amateur]

enabler

 

[tigerlily46514]

BAH HAHA!!!
Amateur has so BUSTED me!! Yes, Amateur, you nailed it!!! You got me figured out already!!

 

[Anneke]

I know just how you feel, Tigerlily. I also had a dog with a great recall(with prey anyway, not with dogs... I once had to follow someone else who was walking her dog, all the way to her home, as Shane followed her dog and seemed to have lost his hearing Just my luck this lady was deaf and she did not hear me call. I was too far back to catch up with them)
But with prey Shane was fine. He would start the chase, but he was too afraid to loose sight of me, so he would always come back as soon as he heard me.
And I would often hide behind a tree, if he would go too far away from me.
So when I got Cooper I figured I could call him back too. Well... Cooper has NO recall, or a slow motion recall. He will never, ever come immidiately. There is always the last sniff or the last time lifting his leg He has been like that from the very beginning, at 10 weeks old.
Now I did not want this with Jinx, so I played loads of recall games with her and I did have a fantastic recall for the first year. She would not follow a scent or chase after prey. And that's were I made the mistake...
We were walking them together and suddenly these three deer cross our path. Cooper took off immidiately, Jinx first looked back. So I called her, she came back and STUPID me, did not put her leash on! THen she heard Cooper's chasing howl and off she went....
So now she will take off after a scent or after deer. I must say, I can usually call her back from a scent, but not from prey.
And I don't even think about letting them both off leash together, because when Jinx goes off, Cooper will follow, when Cooper starts, Jinx will follow
And no matter what I do, I have tried her favorite recall game, her favorite toys, her favorite treats, running the other way, hiding, keeping her close to me by playing little games....
Maybe I should buy some deer, for her to chase every day

 

[tigerlily46514]

LOL, i have considered, if i buy some pet bunnies, i could have something to work with!!

if you DO buy some deer, i will want photos..

 

[tigerlily46514]

at any rate, i think RunningDog's advice here, should be mandatory reading for all new dog owners........so they don't end up with a dog as bad off as mine is...

 

[tigerlily46514]

slightly off topic, but one tip i did learn from others here on DTA, was,
if your dog brings you a dead animal, do not show disgust, nor scold the dog. If you do, your dog might then just hide his dead prey, or stay with it in some hidden area til he is done with it.

If your dog brings you dead prey, just silently take the dead prey. no scolding.
THANKS to whichever DTA member taught me this..

 

[dogcrazy]

Good to know if my dog ever does this!

 

[tigerlily46514]

lol, i left out the part about--- i wear gloves or use a towel, or plastic bags, ha ha, or both. Yeah, i am glad someone taught me this before i accidentally taught my dog to hide his kills from me.

 

[Amateur]

I agree its really hard to deal with having new dogs that dont have good recall when your old ones did it naturally or with little effort.
The BC is quite good but Hank was a stray at one year old so he knows the joy of freedom.

 

[tigerlily46514]

true enough, Amateur.
but to me, there is a slight difference,
between a dog having good recall,
and not being able to call some dogs off chasing prey.

My dog does have razor sharp recall, he learned this as an adult,
from scratch. Even a stray dog can learn recall. It's never ever too late to teach a dog to come when called.
But, if the dog has become immune to the word "come" you may be wise to select an entirely new word, and start all over from scratch, as if you just brought home a new puppy, starting all over, to teach the dog to RUN to you, when he hears you say, "Here!" or "now!" or "cha-cha" or whatever noise you will use. Do not use the dog's NAME, as he hears his name all day long. I say, "buddy, COME!" and 99% of the time, my dog RUNS to me, full speed, instantly. Okay, 98% of the time!!

and we practice it every day, from distances, from around distractions, all the time. I NEVER EVER call my dog when he is about to pee, as Tx_cowgirl taught me, that might weaken the cue. Almost no dog will come when he is about to pee...when you gotta go, you gotta go.
I wait til he is done, with his pre-urination sniff, finishes leaving his "reply",
and THEN i call him over. That way, we both win .
and i do not weaken the cue, "come", by giving Buddy even one chance to hear it and NOT come to me right away.

Like Runningdog, i guard or protect the power of my recall cue. Rdog mentions earlier in this thread, that she will not use her true or real cue, to call her dog,
when she KNOWS he will not come to her. She uses a "fake" cue, NOT the cue she has trained her dog to return to her,------ if only to appear to be calling her dog, for the benefit of any witness who might think she is not even trying to get her dog back.
I understood instantly why Rdog does that, she does not want to weaken her recall cue word.

I am same way, i try to never ever let my dog ever hear that cue, and not come to me.......it weakens the cue.

But getting some dogs to stop chasing prey, and return to their human,
can be verrrry challenging, even in dogs with otherwise solid recall.

 

[tigerlily46514]

btw, Runningdog, i have already begun to use your advice, to work on getting Buddy to come to me, work on getting him calm or focused on something else, doing a trick, etc,
in those "still excited" moments,
AFTER the bunny has taken off.

I can see already, how this can help in the whole process.

 

[running_dog]

Buddy is working with absent rabbits and Zac has my sister's kitten to work with... our Buddy and Zac should be making lots of progress.

Funny thing:

kitten in carrier - Zac licks it's nose through bars in friendly way (my sister let him do that when I wasn't there ).

kitten sitting in my sister's arms (sister standing, sitting or sitting on floor) - Zac relaxed, mildly interested easily clicker trained not to look at kitten.

kitten sitting on floor (without moving a whisker) - Zac reacts, ears up, muscles taught, poised to leap, silently hollering PREY! PREY! PREY!

Took ages to get him down from hyper after that.

 

[Pawbla]

Bringing dead prey is natural to a dog's behaviour - and it's supposed to be a "desirable" behaviour. Buuuut nobody actually likes having a stinky dead animal in their carpet. Flor brought a stinky dead pigeon who died of natural causes, I assume, and started chewing it right next to me, just a couple of weeks ago .

My dog is pretty reliable with prey, outdoors, but... I wish I could totally strip him off his prey instinct . I know people that have their dogs and pigeons living peacefully together. But I know it's very risky, and also you can't have a dog that plays with toys and fetch and stuff I need to do, and have a dog that doesn't chase prey at all.

Good luck with all your dogs!

 

[tigerlily46514]

//"I know people that have their dogs and pigeons living peacefully together. But I know it's very risky and also..........,"//
I think the risk is less and this is easier if the dog met the pigeons as a baby dog, and grew up beside pigeons. There are all kinds of amazing stories of dogs who grow up around creatures that they *should* want to chase, but don't, cuz they grew up beside the creature.

btw, my dog has zero interest in pigeons, or birds in general. Large large birds he likes to chase, but he can snooze while other small birds walk around in the grass near him......no interest in small birds at all. I guess he is not a bird dog.

//".........and also you can't have a dog that plays with toys and fetch and stuff I need to do, and have a dog that doesn't chase prey at all."//

I don't "know" this the way you do. I think there are dogs that fetch and play toys, and can be called off chasing prey.

and
There might be dogs who love to chase prey, but who have a low interest in toys, and won't play fetch (mine won't, for example, my dog loathes fetch, but LOVES to chase prey)

 

[Pawbla]

//"I know people that have their dogs and pigeons living peacefully together. But I know it's very risky and also..........,"//
I think the risk is less and this is easier if the dog met the pigeons as a baby dog, and grew up beside pigeons. There are all kinds of amazing stories of dogs who grow up around creatures that they *should* want to chase, but don't, cuz they grew up beside the creature.

btw, my dog has zero interest in pigeons, or birds in general. Large large birds he likes to chase, but he can snooze while other small birds walk around in the grass near him......no interest in small birds at all. I guess he is not a bird dog.

Large animals dog only! Well, that's good. Small bird are way more common .

Yeah, it's easier that way, but I know some dogs that were introduced as adults to birds, and they had no desire of chasing them for some reason. That's another one of my reasons for wanting a puppy, by the way, I want him to get used to pigeons . Poor babies have to be locked up almost all day, if not.

//".........and also you can't have a dog that plays with toys and fetch and stuff I need to do, and have a dog that doesn't chase prey at all."//

I don't "know" this the way you do. I think there are dogs that fetch and play toys, and can be called off chasing prey.

and
There might be dogs who love to chase prey, but who have a low interest in toys, and won't play fetch (mine won't, for example, my dog loathes fetch, but LOVES to chase prey)

Yeah, you can have a dog that can be called off chasing prey, but you can't have a dog with zero prey instinct . I mean, it's a carnivorous animal, it's in its genes, it can't have zero prey instinct, even if you have discouraged it all his life. And if you encourage it by playing fetch and so, it is less likely your dog will approach "zero". But chasing real prey is a much stronger motivator than chasing a ball or whatever. My dog likes chasing some birds, too, but is less interested in fetch.

 

[tigerlily46514]

oh, Buddy LOVES chasing small animals, he has brought me many chipmunks, small bunnies, etc etc.
he just has zero zero zero interest in small birds. none.