Shall I Have My Dog Euthanased?

[helpsavemydog]

For the muzzle, check out this video, she's working with a harness but it's the same concept, just modify it for the muzzle.

Thankyou, I checked the video out. It was helpful but she persists on trying to get it off while I am walking her, sometimes she goes on strike and just lies down, it brings me to tears which is rather silly I know but I just feel for her.

 

[running_dog]

If I was writing to the council about my dog I'd pack the envelope with as much evidence as possible.

The first thing I'd do is go to the vets and where ever the dog came from and get these people to write references for the dog. Even if only to say that they have never personally seen any sign of aggression. Even if it is only a print out of the rescue centre paperwork relating to the puppy and that DOESN'T say "aggressive". If it was a rescue centre they probably have character tests they run on new dogs, they might be prepared to run them on Rosie again under the circumstances?

Then I'd get as many other dog owners and friends as I could find to sign statement saying that they have not seen signs of aggression in the dog - though as it is still a puppy it still needs further socialisation.

Then I'd prove (photocopy/print out of booking confirmation) that I had booked the dog in for training classes to assist with training and socialisation. In the mean time the dog is securely fenced into the garden (photograph of fence, preferably including the dog lying calmly next to a person and looking particularly goofy ).

Then I'd include a weekly socialisation/training schedule that fills the time from now until the training sessions start with the first 2 weeks planned in detail - things like getting people to walk past the house and fence while dog plays with ball and ignores people, introducing dog to wider range of people, asking people that are unknown to the dog to visit bearing armfuls of treats and dog toys so that the dog learns to welcome strangers nicely. Playing recall games with people strange to the dog so the dog thinks all strangers might be bearing gifts. I'd just have general ideas for the following weeks/months as these would depend on the dogs progress. I'd finish Week 1 before sending the letter and then tell them how much progress the dog was making (video evidence?).

I'm not saying this is what you should do but I thought some of the ideas might be useful to you.

 

[Amateur]

Wow we let murders free after they did their time and got "rehabilitated"
Very Harsh - it was an unlucky moment, but you seem resigned to make it work.
All you can do is give it your best.
Doesnt give you much time but hopefully the 22nd goes well. *fingers crossed*

 

[Amateur]

Running Dog has great ideas. Especially exposing her to many people - not a lot of time but wonders do happen in a week. Make it the best thing to go see different people ( they can reward her with a treat)
Especially where you can recreate the actual incident that actully cause all this mess, and work on solving that issue - if it was even an issure in the first place - I'm not convinced.

Anyhow , here's a wild thought - Do you know the person who complained - can you talk to them ? If you can - maybe they would be willing to meet with you again to prove that they just startled your dog and it wasnt as bad as they intially thought.
Its a real long shot as they complained n the first place, but maybe they dont realise the full implications of what their complain has led to.

Yes I would be mad if a dog hurt or scared my dog - but if someone came to me asking for help I might not be so judgemental seeing as how their are really trying to work with their dog. Good luck

 

[tigerlily46514]

Dear Rosie's mom, yes, you are correct, you do not want to "correct" a dog for growling, you have heard right. That's great you know this!!! yay!!!

This won't make a dog "Nice"
only silent.

The dog learns to never growl, but his inner attitude is just the same. Then you are left with a dog who never growls, and is very difficult to read, especially for strangers.

The owners of dogs who have been corrected for growling report things like "We just never know when Fido is going to bite, one minute he is fine, the next minute, he has bitten someone!". poor Fido, he's been trained to not give a warning prior to a bite. sad.

not that your dog would necessarily escalate to a bite, i'm just saying, you are spot on about do not teach a dog to never growl. Just remove dog away from whatever he is growling about.

I think Rdog has given you some great advice, i hope it goes well. Re Rosie isn't liking the muzzle, might be too late for this tip, but, maybe if you start with only brief times of wearing harness, reward heavily,
i do mean heavily, using real meat, liver, cheese, peanut butter, lavish praise, etc etc.
and then,
keep repeating it, keeping harness on just a bit longer each time.

I understand about your tears, Rosie Mom, i do, i'd feel that way too.
It's never too late to start all over when it comes to dogs,
maybe,
you could get NEW, completely different muzzle, and start all over, closely following the video above, and keeping muzzle on dog only super briefly, making that moment the best part of Rosie's day, and repeat this moment a few times each day,
while slowly, slowly, slowly increasing time Rosie wears it...not sure, but, maybe worth a try.

I've seen dogs who loathed leashes, get over it, when a new method, on a new leash, was used. ya never know, *might* be worth a try. HUGS!!

HANG IN THERE AND BEST OF LUCK!!!

 

[running_dog]

Another thought regarding the letter to the council, I would also attempt to get character references for myself as being a responsible dog owner.

 

[helpsavemydog]

Wow we let murders free after they did their time and got "rehabilitated"
Very Harsh - it was an unlucky moment, but you seem resigned to make it work.
All you can do is give it your best.
Doesnt give you much time but hopefully the 22nd goes well. *fingers crossed*

Dear Rosie's mom, yes, you are correct, you do not want to "correct" a dog for growling, you have heard right. That's great you know this!!! yay!!!

This won't make a dog "Nice"
only silent.

The dog learns to never growl, but his inner attitude is just the same. Then you are left with a dog who never growls, and is very difficult to read, especially for strangers.

The owners of dogs who have been corrected for growling report things like "We just never know when Fido is going to bite, one minute he is fine, the next minute, he has bitten someone!". poor Fido, he's been trained to not give a warning prior to a bite. sad.

not that your dog would necessarily escalate to a bite, i'm just saying, you are spot on about do not teach a dog to never growl. Just remove dog away from whatever he is growling about.

I think Rdog has given you some great advice, i hope it goes well. Re Rosie isn't liking the muzzle, might be too late for this tip, but, maybe if you start with only brief times of wearing harness, reward heavily,
i do mean heavily, using real meat, liver, cheese, peanut butter, lavish praise, etc etc.
and then,
keep repeating it, keeping harness on just a bit longer each time.

I understand about your tears, Rosie Mom, i do, i'd feel that way too.
It's never too late to start all over when it comes to dogs,
maybe,
you could get NEW, completely different muzzle, and start all over, closely following the video above, and keeping muzzle on dog only super briefly, making that moment the best part of Rosie's day, and repeat this moment a few times each day,
while slowly, slowly, slowly increasing time Rosie wears it...not sure, but, maybe worth a try.

I've seen dogs who loathed leashes, get over it, when a new method, on a new leash, was used. ya never know, *might* be worth a try. HUGS!!

HANG IN THERE AND BEST OF LUCK!!!

Thank you for all this advise. Every day is a challenge. Today my husband put up a big cage in the back yard, fencing he got from work luckily. The fence is 8' high! As I was talking to the neighbour (about the incident) I couldn't believe it SHE CLIMBED OVER THE FENCE! OMG

what a shock. So my husband will have to put wire at the top slanted towards her. It is ridiculous as we could just as easily put her on a secure lead while we are out in the garden. The council don't allow dogs tied up in the yard!

When we go to work she goes into the inside back porch and is quite happy in there - never barks or destroys anything. I usually come home in my break to check up on her as I don't live far. Because I work casual and shift work she isn't in there very often or for long periods.
I'm about to take her for a walk, not a long one this time, with the mussle on and also taking a petition with me hoping to meet fellow friends (whom I have meet through our dogs). Everyone is very supportive. I haven't seen many of my friends as we usually all meet at the park.
I bought a clicker yesterday and now I'm starting to train her with the clicker, she is so smart so it shouldn't take her long. Thanks again everyone, Lorraine

 

[helpsavemydog]

Oh wow what great advise, this has really helped - I'm getting hold of the two vets tomorrow and even the girls from puppy school, although that might be asking alot as that was a while ago. Even the lady in the pet shop (where I got the clicker and mussle from) will help me.
I bought her from a farm, I could even go to the original owner. I'm about to take a petition around, oh no it has just started to rain. My neigbour on either side are going to write something. I shall contact the dog trainer as well and ask her for proof of deposit for the classes I have booked her into.
The weekly socialisation schedule is a great idea which I'll start this week. Thanks sooo much for all your great ideas I can't repay you enough, I am sooo greatful. Lorraine

If I was writing to the council about my dog I'd pack the envelope with as much evidence as possible.

The first thing I'd do is go to the vets and where ever the dog came from and get these people to write references for the dog. Even if only to say that they have never personally seen any sign of aggression. Even if it is only a print out of the rescue centre paperwork relating to the puppy and that DOESN'T say "aggressive". If it was a rescue centre they probably have character tests they run on new dogs, they might be prepared to run them on Rosie again under the circumstances?

Then I'd get as many other dog owners and friends as I could find to sign statement saying that they have not seen signs of aggression in the dog - though as it is still a puppy it still needs further socialisation.

Then I'd prove (photocopy/print out of booking confirmation) that I had booked the dog in for training classes to assist with training and socialisation. In the mean time the dog is securely fenced into the garden (photograph of fence, preferably including the dog lying calmly next to a person and looking particularly goofy ).

Then I'd include a weekly socialisation/training schedule that fills the time from now until the training sessions start with the first 2 weeks planned in detail - things like getting people to walk past the house and fence while dog plays with ball and ignores people, introducing dog to wider range of people, asking people that are unknown to the dog to visit bearing armfuls of treats and dog toys so that the dog learns to welcome strangers nicely. Playing recall games with people strange to the dog so the dog thinks all strangers might be bearing gifts. I'd just have general ideas for the following weeks/months as these would depend on the dogs progress. I'd finish Week 1 before sending the letter and then tell them how much progress the dog was making (video evidence?).

I'm not saying this is what you should do but I thought some of the ideas might be useful to you.

 

[helpsavemydog]

Oh wow what great advise, this has really helped - I'm getting hold of the two vets tomorrow and even the girls from puppy school, although that might be asking alot as that was a while ago. Even the lady in the pet shop (where I got the clicker and mussle from) will help me.
I bought her from a farm, I could even go to the original owner. I'm about to take a petition around, oh no it has just started to rain. My neigbour on either side are going to write something. I shall contact the dog trainer as well and ask her for proof of deposit for the classes I have booked her into.
The weekly socialisation schedule is a great idea which I'll start this week. Thanks sooo much for all your great ideas I can't repay you enough, I am sooo greatful. Lorraine

 

[mewzard]

Wow impressive climbing skills! I'm pleased that you have decided to keep her and try and work with her.
.
She is only young. Was it a child she growled at? Children can be scary for dogs... they talk in varying pitches, they talk fast and move fast... If she was running toward your dog then IMO she had the right to growl - "hey back off!!" - but the council aren't going to see it that way.
.
I have an 18month old GSD cross, she hasn't been off lead since about 9 months - because she is not trust worthy - she isn't aggressive but will run up to any and all dogs and ignore me. She is happy and exercised so it's not all bad.
.
Can you not use a tie out stake and line whilst you are outside, at home? I can understand them not wanting dogs left outside tied up, but surely it would be ok when you are home...IMO it would be safer than her jumping off of an 8' fence!!
.
Also well done for picking this forum out of soooo many others -> These are some of the best dog people i know!!!

 

[helpsavemydog]

Wow impressive climbing skills! I'm pleased that you have decided to keep her and try and work with her.
.
She is only young. Was it a child she growled at? Children can be scary for dogs... they talk in varying pitches, they talk fast and move fast... If she was running toward your dog then IMO she had the right to growl - "hey back off!!" - but the council aren't going to see it that way.
.
I have an 18month old GSD cross, she hasn't been off lead since about 9 months - because she is not trust worthy - she isn't aggressive but will run up to any and all dogs and ignore me. She is happy and exercised so it's not all bad.
.
Can you not use a tie out stake and line whilst you are outside, at home? I can understand them not wanting dogs left outside tied up, but surely it would be ok when you are home...IMO it would be safer than her jumping off of an 8' fence!!
.
Also well done for picking this forum out of soooo many others -> These are some of the best dog people i know!!!

Thankyou for your response. My neighbour had the same attitude re: the girl running at her. He said not to write anything about being my fault. Rosie was obviously giving an 'I'm scared growl' and You did have her under control as she caused no harm and was immediatley removed from the situation before anything happened.
I met a very official dog walker today when I was collecting signatures for the petition. She said the council are just going to ignore those as it isn't on there official petition printout OMG it is getting sooo hard to prove my darling Rosie is not a menace (that was how she was officially described). Tomorrow I contact the vets - I hope I have better luck there.
I'm also house hunting for another place to rent, I really want to get out in the country now, away from red tape, dog haters and people who don't communicate with you, if she had only talked about it, her children could have ended up adoring Rosie as she had several young friends. Rosie is doing well with the clicker.

 

[running_dog]

Thankyou for your response. My neighbour had the same attitude re: the girl running at her. He said not to write anything about being my fault. Rosie was obviously giving an 'I'm scared growl' and You did have her under control as she caused no harm and was immediatley removed from the situation before anything happened.

Excellent advice from your neighbour, I hope he is going to write down what he thinks? Individual letters (even containing only a few lines) always have a bigger impact than just signatures.

I met a very official dog walker today when I was collecting signatures for the petition. She said the council are just going to ignore those as it isn't on there official petition printout

Well what a sympathetic ray of sunshine she was!
Could you get the official petition printout? If not still get the signatures, still include them. They may not be officially recognised but supported by any letters that you can get they may prove a general strength of feeling. It will also show that YOU have made an effort.

Make sure you keep copies of EVERYTHING that you send to the council.

So glad that Rosie is doing well with the clicker, that is one good thing that has come out of all this .
You are doing great too, don't give up hope, Rosie's reputation is worth fighting for.

 

[helpsavemydog]

Feeling a little down at the moment, Rosie has a cough, probably picked it up from the council pound the other day when they took her.
I haven't started writing the letter yet but getting plenty of encouragement from everyone I meet. The vet wrote a brilliant letter:

The 8mth Border Collie cross named Rosie and owned by Lorraine McArthur has been vaccinated at this clinic, and attended our puppy pre-school. At no time has she shown any signs of aggression, although she was a timid puppy.
Dogs will growl or bark to ward off what they perceive as a threat to their territory, owner or safety. This should not be interpreted as an attack: it is merely warning behaviour. How it can be construed as viciousness in the absence of a physical attack is beyond me. It certainly calls into question the depth of knowledge in the area of dog behaviour of of the person handling this issue

So true and so kind of him to do this

 

[mewzard]

Wow thats a brilliant letter for your case! I would try to see if there is a dog behaviourist are that could do some sort of "personality test" to back up the vet and you.
.
for doing this for your sweet dog.

 

[Amateur]

awesome letter
Its what we have all been thinking !

 

[tigerlily46514]

I love your vet. (do have him/her look over Rosie about that cough.)
Even the most loving dog will bark if someone is by his house....that's the dog's "job".

BEST OF LUCK, hang in there!

 

[running_dog]

Your vet is AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[karleee]

Tell me about the council!!

Do you live in Australia?
If so-I know what the bloody council is like

 

[karleee]

Also-PLEASE don't have her put down,If worse comes to worse-the best thing to do will be to re-home her on a farm,where she can run to her hearts content....IF worse comes to worse

She looks like a beautiful,energetic dog...and I know what it's like to have a REALLY energetic dog.Dazzle jusy never stops!

 

[helpsavemydog]

Also-PLEASE don't have her put down,If worse comes to worse-the best thing to do will be to re-home her on a farm,where she can run to her hearts content....IF worse comes to worse

She looks like a beautiful,energetic dog...and I know what it's like to have a REALLY energetic dog.Dazzle jusy never stops!

Thanks Karlee
Yes I do live in Australia - Toowoomba, Queensland. The council has had to contend with several attacks in the city of the last few years so my thoughts are they are treating every dog as potentially, he said several times they don't have to bite to be deemed dangerous. When I mentioned that Rosie is just learning about the world he quickly stated that that was the worry, if she is like that now what will she be like as an adult. My dog is not a barker like most dogs, this seems to be her way of saying "Who are you?"
We are just about to move - this Wed - and near the house is a one way tourist drive through bush, no residential access. Ideal spot for Rosie and I to go for a run. We both get a good work out. Once we move their I shall take her with my bike - I have a stiff stick attachment for the bike. She has adapted to this type of run well.
I have given up on the mussle - she allows me to put it on alright but once it is on she spends all her time to get it off (which she can't). She has worn an area off her nose and whenever I try again it starts to bleed. The stupid thing about it is that their are 3 types of regulated (dangerous) dogs and Rosie (if I don't win my case) comes under the menacing regulated dog, which means she won't have to wear a mussle. But until they decide (wish they would hurry on the decision) she is to wear a mussle in public places. CRAZY!