Can I Do Both Herding & Treibball?

[Dlilly]

I'm wanting to do Treibball with Rory, but I also plan on doing sheep herding wih him. I was wondering if I could use the same cues for both sheep herding and Treibball?? (Come by, Away) Would him knowing the cues from Treibball help him when I start sheep herding, or just confuse him?

 

[k9 crazed]

Great question! I'll eagerly await the answers with you.....

 

[Mutt]

It is often advised not to do both. With herding it is absolutely not done that the dogs 'touch' the sheep (nipping, bitting etc. It's all forbidden), whereas with treibball the dog must touch the ball with its nose.

 

[k9 crazed]

I do wonder sometimes about folks thoughts- I mean we all know how dogs don't generalize right? And just maybe they'd notice that a sheep is not a ball?
Also pushing with a nose is definitely not biting. Has anyone actually tried both or is it just word on the street...

I was just thinking about a sort of similar thing yesterday, I want to do several things with my dog that involve harnesses- carting, scootering, and parkour. I was wondering if he would get confused because of the presence (similarity) of the harnesses. I mean it would not be good if he tried to leap an obstacle while pulling a cart... or me! Then I thought that's ridiculous I'd be using different cues, there would be the presence of other different equipment and dogs don't generalize that well. So the next thing is to try it.
Perhaps in order to insure that the dog doesn't make a mistake with livestock one should come up with different cues for trieball and herding.
Some thoughts anyway.

 

[Mutt]

You have a good point there. I do agree that dogs can easily differ between things.
I think treibball and sheepherding can be seen as two similar tricks (like rolling over and lying on the side) and that they should be treated like that.
So I would do them simultaniously, but first do one thing (I would do sheepherding first, but that is just me ) and 'proof' that and after that do the other thing.
Since they both let herding breeds use their natural instinct.
Touching the sheep is really not done and enough to disqualify you.

 

[k9 crazed]

That's a good idea. I read somewhere that it was a trainer working with herding dogs that actually came up with Treiball, and that then he taught it to his herding students...so if that is true then it would seem again that they could do both. I didn't have time to double check the story but it's interesting anyway.

 

[Mutt]

Mmh "would do them simultanioualy" should be "wouldn't do them simultaniously".

I'd be very interested in that article if it's on the internet

 

[Anneke]

I know a few people who do both. A sheep is not a ball and doesn't even come close to resembling one. Besides treibball is not an all herdingbreed sport. Any dog can learn to do treibball, but not every dog can herd
But... I don't know if they use the same words... I think they do, but I'm not sure.

 

[RowdyDogs]

I have a friend who does both and I played around with Treibball with my herding dogs a bit (although we weren't really doing much herding at the time), and I think it can be done. However, my friend and I both used different commands for Treibball than we did herding.

I agree with Mutt too that I'd get really good at one before I moved on to the other. Although I guess it depends a bit on your goals...are you planning on seriously competing/trialling with either, or are you just out to have fun? If you don't really care about being competitive and just want some fun activities to do with your dog, then I don't know how important that is.

Basically, the two are different enough that I don't think most dogs will get that confused, but they're similar enough that they could learn "bad" habits that transfer from one to another. To use an example mentioned above, a dog might learn that touching the ball is really fun and makes it move, and think that touching the sheep will be really fun too. It's not generalizing in the sense that he thinks "herding means I touch the subject" but the behavior still transfers because he learns it may be rewarding to do so, if that makes sense. That's another reason for using different commands, too. He learns that one set of commands has one set of rules, and the other has some different rules.

A ball is really different than a sheep and a dog isn't going to confuse the two of course, but Treibball and herding definitely use the same drives, and that can cause some wires to get crossed if you're not careful about it.