Submissive Pee

Discussion in 'Puppies' started by krazykai0905, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. krazykai0905 Well-Known Member

    Kai submissive pees. Alot. Not to me anymore, but to my brother, my friends, and basically anyone new. She's almost 5 months now, house trained, and very friendly. I am reeeally getting tired of cleaning up fear-pee, though, so does anyone have suggestions?

    ~~*Harper & Kai*~~

  2. xanny Well-Known Member

    With my lab, we always had people greet him outside, and let him go to them on his terms. Once they met, we would move inside. It didn't always work though. At one dinner party, he peed 3 times throughout the night when he was over a year old...his mind used to completely leave when he was anxious and he would forget he had access to a dog door. After that one incident, we haven't had any problems for about 2 years. If it's cold outside, we now crate him when we now people will be over. After about 5-10 minutes if he is quiet, we let him out of the crate and he either goes outside himself or is fine meeting the people. Hopefully someone with more dog experience will have more suggestions for you =) Oh, we also had them feed him a treat once he approached them on his own
  3. fickla Experienced Member

    In my limited experience, this is mainly a puppy thing that most dogs outgrow. However I think most dogs tend to outgrow it before they turn a year, so if she's still doing it at 1yr then all hope of that is gone :)

    Really there's not much you can do. For obvious reasons, yelling at her for peeing can make things much worse. What helps the most is simply trying to get the other people to be very very calm when greeting Kai. No excited greetings whatsoever. If she still pees even when they are calm, then people are going to have to ignore her for the first 2-10min of seeing her. No touching, talking, or eye contact as we all know who would say (one thing of his I actually like!).

    I know that this can be extremely frustrating but you will just have to take it for what it is and fingers crosses Kai outgrows this.
  4. jackienmutts Honored Member

    Oh, I don't want to even add this. I have a 14 yr old Aussie mix. She did that until probably she was about 6 or 7 ys old, and then just stopped. Why she just kind of stopped then, I don't know.

    Do really work hard at making greetings very low-key - when people come over, no dog involvement, no hovering over the cute puppy, no cute puppy/baby talk, nothing. Yep, no touch, no talk, no eye contact. Especially hard with a puppy. Make sure people just ignore her til it's obvious she's comfortable, for however long that takes. And if she does pee, just clean it up. The one thing you don't want to do is make her feel the least bit uncomfortable for peeing. She's not eliminating, as in, having to use the bathroom. She's peeing out of fear - huge difference. No comments, big sighs, ugly faces, etc, on your part. She picks up on that, and knows she's done wrong. The problem gets worse. We kept an easily washable rug right by the front door, as no matter who came over, how they entered, etc, that's where 'it' happened. Easy to soak up with a little towel, and launder as necessary. She never had accidents in the house, used a doggie door, etc, so never had a worry there. It was 100% related to that dreaded front door, entry hall area. Make entries/visitors not involve her at all. Walk right past her, just totally ignore her, keep voices low/soft/normal if possible. Let her figure out that people mean no harm to her, they're nothing to be scared of, all's good. When she's finally comfortable and ready for pets (as in, hopefully now she's seeking them), ask people to pet her under her neck, chest area, talking softly, again, not hovering over her, and not staring into her eyes. Hopefully, it will all start making sense to her. Remember she's still a baby, trying to figure out this human world. Some dogs can barrel into it with no problem, others are more timid.

    My girl's great now, no problem at all. Not sure exactly when or why it quit, we suddenly realized she wasn't doing it anymore - and were so happy! After so many years, we were amazed and resigned to her doing it forever. Hang in there, there is hope. If my girl can clear this hurdle, I bet your little Kai can too. And I bet she doesn't do it for years and years, only months (altho I know it seems like an eternity, believe me!). Be patient, go slow, she has so much growing up to do, she'll be a big beautiful strong girl in no time!
  5. bellesmom New Member

    Hi, I'm a veterinary technician and was actually at a conference last weekend and one of the classes I attended was taught by Dr. Rolan Tripp (who is frequently on Animal Planets Petsburgh USA, and Good Dog U)on behavior. One of the problems addressed was submissive urination. If the problem gets out of control that you have to have it fixed, there is a drug that can be used, called phenylpropanolamine. I, personally, would never want to use drugs for this problem, but they are available. When your pet urinates when you get him, this is their way of being submissive to you, becauseyou are the "pack leader". Of course you should never make a big deal out of coming home. Also never bend over or tower over the dog, because to them this is showing your dominance and just reinforces the behavior. An exercise the Dr. Tripp recommended is as follows: When you get home, slowly enter, sideways. Entering head on is a dominant behavior. Do not make eye contact, completely ignore the dog. Then while you are standing there, exhale loudly so the animal hears you, relax your body. These steps will help clue the dog in that you are completly relaxed. After this, you need to get on your knees, staying relaxed, and patiently and calmly await for the dog to approach you first. If you can get through this exercise and you are urine free, repeating it over and over should eventually help eliminate this problem. Dr. Tripp's recommendation was to try working on this before drugs are ever considered. Good Luck!
  6. snooks Experienced Member

    I used PPA for years with two spayed bitches that had spay related incontinence. It is an antihistamine that tightens the urethral sphincter. I don't see where it would help a voluntary decision to urinate since its purpose is as a muscle tightener not really what the issue is here. I also agree this is a behavioral issue and shouldn't nec be treated with drugs. Though PPA is relatively safe it is a drug and ALL drugs have side effects.

    I suggest ignoring the dog totally and have guests ignore the dog until dogs and people are all calm. And then tell your guests not to get excited and fire your dog up. Most people tend to greet dogs with a great deal of enthusiasm which creates adrenaline fueled bursts of excitement that may lead to the behavioral need to release anxiety by urinating. The dog gets mixed messages of HEY HELLO GOOD PUPPY COME SAY HI then you say eh don't jump, don't pee, don't get too excited...this is anxiety provoking.

    Teach and reward alternate behaviors that are incompatible with urination and that dissipate excitement. Guests should not excite or entice your dog. Quit while ur ahead. Pet the dog once and stop and go get a drink or continue conversation. The dog does not need to be the center of attention for protracted amounts of time after guests arrive. When this happens you almost predispose your dog to fail b/c the results are the same. Guests are less disciplined if you don't school them well enough.

    Try teaching incompatible things like go to your bed or your mat and maybe have a waterproof bed for your dog to STAY on until the excitement is over. Be sure to reward this quiet non-attention seeking behavior. Releasing the dog from a stay only to greet and get all excited negates all you did.

    If you have a crate and your dog likes or is comfortable there you might put the dog in her crate with a frozen food stuffed Kong when guests arrive and ignore. Guests then represent food and a while licking and chewing calmly instead of a freak-fest. :doghappy:

    Make sure your dog is well exercised and tired when guests arrive. Hungry dogs with food usually are good dogs. If you can reassociate and maybe put on a little show after the initial excitment is past you may find your problems resolve. Doing a few neat tricks for guests for some really yummy treats teaches patience, self control, decreases anxiety, reinforces confidence, and will set your do up to succeed. Success is the most important part.
  7. jeanniecogan Well-Known Member

    i know this is late, butwe had a border collie that someone gave us because she did that. my husband suggested not bending over her to pet or greet her. so we would sit or stoop down to her level and pet her. cured in a couple days.

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