Discussion in 'Dog Tricks' started by Bosun, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. Bosun Well-Known Member

    Don't ya hate it when you get PROOF that your dog is smarter than you are?

    I've been working with "spin" for a while now. Not straight time or anything, but off and on. It's included in Bosun's "routine of tricks". Well, he has the hand signal down pat. I couldn't get him to perform the act without the hand motion. It had me stumped.

    Now he's a sight hound. We do a lot of our outdoor stuff by signal only. I teach him both words and signals. I personally think signals are more impressive to outsiders, yet easier for the dog.

    I couldn't figure out why he wouldn't release his dependency on the spin hand signal. Then 10 minutes ago it gob smacked me!!!! My clicker timing has been off. I was clicking the completion of the spin, not he beginning. So I was clicking him facing me... so when I said "spin" he faced me... sometimes... I wonder, how this boy ever learns anything!

    I can hardly wait for hubby to wake up so I can practice this. Pretty sure he'd not find the joy in training by being woken to the clicker!

    Really there's only a few options about what could be going wrong in training.... and usually it's human.
    tigerlily46514 and mewzard like this.

  2. mewzard Experienced Member

    This made me think, as i can't get Oka to spin with out the hand signal. I'm going to try later and see if my timing is off. Though i suspect that if i click the beginning then she won't go all the way round, thus also being smarter than the human :D
    Bosun likes this.
  3. Bosun Well-Known Member

    lol... I am wondering that same thing... Maybe if we click at the half-way mark... so they are committed to the spin?

    Right now I: Say "spin", pause (wait for him to move, which, he doesn't), hand signal, he performs trick, click, treat
    Thinking I need ; Say "spin", pause, hand signal, begin trick, C/T

    Somewhere he has missed, maybe back up and use the "verbal" at same luring stages without the hand signal? I dunno...

    I am going to see what happens if I c/t the beginning motion... if I need to move the c/t by quarter turn... so be it! lol...

    What is they say... The trick to being a good dog trainer is to be smarter than the dog!
    tigerlily46514 and mewzard like this.
  4. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Lol, this thread reminded me of i also had a hand signal for "spin", but we'd rarely done the trick in eons, as i'd forgotten we knew this trick. I often use the manual alphabet for deaf people for hand signals, using the initial of the trick name as the hand signal.

    Months later, i was beginning a completely different trick, and i accidentally RE-used the hand signal for "spin" for the brand new trick we were working on,
    and Buddy did a spin.
    I had to go check my list of known tricks and wa-la!
    Buddy was right! *That* was the signal for spin
    and he remembered it!! and i'd forgotten it.
    even though he hadn't been asked to spin for months.

    Jean used to have great "how to" video on how to teach "spin" in the "classroom", if that feature is re-added to the site, do look it over.
    mewzard likes this.
  5. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    i lured Buddy with food to teach "spin".
  6. mewzard Experienced Member

    Oka can do the spin, she just won't do it without a hand sign.
  7. Bosun Well-Known Member

    I had been using the classroom to teach, that is where we had gotten to... I miss the classroom...sigh ;)

    Bosun will do it 100% reliablily with the hand signal... I just couldn't phase the hand signal out.

    I did play with him this morning... and I think that I'm on the right track. He is getting clicked at the 1/4 mark and finishing the spin. So 75% of the hand signal is phased out...
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  8. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    i miss the classroom, too. Not sure if Jean plans to re-add it, or not, but it was a jewel of this site, imo. I love those hard to find "HOW TO" videos.

    watching completed tricks, is fun, and inspirational,
    but watching "HOW TO" videos helps *me* know how to teach *my* dog that cue...
    Bosun likes this.
  9. running_dog Honored Member

    I found it hard to phase out the hand signal too.

    Thanks to the Classroom I found it was because I was giving the command "spin" at the same time as the hand signal. If they are given at the same time the dog doesn't notice the verbal. Once I said "spin" 1 second BEFORE giving the hand signal Zac began to pre-empt the hand signal (at first only by a head turn or half step) then I'd confirm him to complete using the hand signal and later the clicker. Now he is independent of the hand signal for clockwise and almost there with anticlockwise.

    Where clicking for a part spin has been useful to Zac is to get him to spin several times in a row. The idea was that for moving tricks you click the movement not after the movement (I think that was from the Sue Ailsby dog training levels :confused: ). It has worked quite well for that so far.
    Bosun likes this.
  10. Anneke Honored Member

    Haha, I am fading out my spoken cue for spin...
    I do the spoken cue and the handcue at the same time and start delaying my spoken cue. So first start with the handcue and then support it with my spoken cue.
    If I had to do it the other way round, I would still give both cue's at the same time, but make my handcue smaller and smaller.
    So I guess I would do it like runningdog says
    Bosun likes this.
  11. Bosun Well-Known Member

    I had been waiting, as per the classroom, but there was no reaction. Until the hand signal... then a reliable spin... I tried minimizing the hand signal, it's literally a wrist flick now.

    Counter clockwise.... groan!!!! lol :confused:

    ...and multiple spins.... yeah, we're not there :ROFLMAO:
  12. running_dog Honored Member

    Bosun - Sorry I just re-posted the method you had already said you tried, I need to retrain my reading and processing skills :rolleyes:

    I guess we went through misunderstandings on the way - for a while when trying to phase out my hand signal Zac was cueing off of a weight shift from my left to right foot, he still guesses spin from that sometimes.

    Zac used to try to walk round me to heel instead of "spin." With counter clockwise I still have to be careful with my position because he sometimes gets half way and starts to rotate for "get in." (His "get in" is a bit of a joke because if he doesn't get close enough he just keeps on rotating - once at a roadside he went right round so he was facing in the opposite direction to me and then was shocked when he fell off the kerb backwards :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:)
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  13. Bosun Well-Known Member

    That's funny! They are certainly more intuitive than we give them credit for. .. and more purposeful.

    It's certainly not a trick I *need* him to do, and well, he's quite large/long and there's not much "spin action" more of a laboured turn in one spot... lol but I thought it would be a good one just because, as it turns out it is... we're both learning. He's almost 1 year old, and the most amazing pup I've ever worked with, hands down.
    running_dog likes this.
  14. running_dog Honored Member

    Zac's spin can also be a very laboured turn... unless he's outside working for his tennis ball, then it is always superfast and sleek. We both like spin, it's one of my "test" commands that I throw at him any time, anyplace, any position and he'll perform... most of the time :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:.
    Bosun likes this.
  15. charmedwolf Moderator

    This just reminded me that I have to work on getting Kratos and Isis to do this on verbal cue. I had completely forgotten that I needed to do that. :oops:

    Kratos can do both directions but not multiple spins because he trips over himself.:ROFLMAO: And then I laugh and he becomes offended.

    Isis can do multiple spins to the right but can't do the other direction. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!
    running_dog, tigerlily46514 and Bosun like this.
  16. Bosun Well-Known Member

    I swear I have adult ADHD... I started "Ta-Daaaa" or in layman's terms Bow lol...

    Now that I'm thinking about Spin again... his back paw is sore... poor booger... not the time for that.

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