Shall I Have My Dog Euthanased?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic & Chit Chat' started by helpsavemydog, Dec 7, 2011.


Shal I have my dog euthanaised?

Poll closed Dec 10, 2011.
Yes because if her main happiness is to play with other dogs in the off the leash park 0 vote(s) 0.0%
No she will still have your company 3 vote(s) 100.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. helpsavemydog Active Member

    This is the letter I sent to the council:
    Proposed Regulated Dog Declaration Notice
    I refer to your notice dated 8 December 2011 stating your intention to declare my dog “Rosie” (PID 981000300571407) to be a menacing dog under Section 90 of the Animal Management Act 2008.
    This letter is my submission as to why such a declaration should not be issued.
    The sole grounds of the proposed declaration relates to an incident that occurred on 4 December 2011. The notice dated 8 December 2011 only briefly outlines the facts of that incident, and I think it may be helpful to outline my understanding of what occurred. If the complainant’s account of the incident differs in any material respect to mine, should you be still be considering declaring Rosie to be a menacing dog, I ask that I be provided with details of her account (and any other material upon which you rely).
    The incident in question:
    On 4 December 2011 at about 10:30 in the morning my husband and I were at home at 7 Connell Street working in our front garden. I was about 3 meters away from the front boundary of the footpath, with my husband a few metres back towards our house. I am aware that dogs are required to be kept inside one’s house property, and my dog Rosie is confined to the back yard (which is fenced off), but I noticed she had come through an unlatched door which had been accidentally left ajar, and was sitting on the front porch. I appreciate that she was not supposed to be there, and I was about to fetch her to take her back when I noticed a lady in the middle of the road pushing a pram with a toddler walking beside her and another young child approximately 7 years old about 6 metres ahead of her. The girl was running or skipping along, and she started to run diagonally across the road and was apparently intending to cross diagonally over the footpath outside my house. It would be speculation on my part as to why she was running/skipping at the speed and direction she was, but our neighbour has two small dogs who frequently are in his front garden, and children often are keen to see them.
    I turned around to get Rosie to take her back into the back yard, but Rosie had already started running past me in the general direction of the girI. Seeing Rosie run past, I immediately jumped up to grab her. Rosie had stopped about half way across the footpath (which is about 5 and a half metres in width) and emitted a low growl. As the young girl was considerably ahead of the woman, infant and toddler, Rosie was closest to the young girl, who was still standing on the road, a little less than a metre from the footpath. Rosie was about 4 metres away from the girl
    when she (Rosie) stopped and let out a growl. At about the time Rose had started to run out of my house property, the woman started shouting: my recollection was that she was shouting at
    the young girl to stop, the woman then ran up to the girl. At this stage a man in a car drove alongside the girl and the women, and said through his car window words to the effect of “Are you ok ……” (he mentioned a woman’s name but I can’t recall the name). The woman gave a quick reply but I didn’t catch what she said. The car driver then drove away. I had initially grabbed Rosie by her coat, and then took her by her collar to hold her properly. Although the child was not crying or otherwise visibly affected, the woman looked most upset. I apologised to the woman and said this kind of incident wouldn’t happen again. She didn’t reply (or respond to me in any way) and she and the three children continued walking down the middle of the street. This entire incident (from the time the young girl started running towards the boundary between our house and next door until the time the women and the children again moved on all happened within about 15 seconds.
    Relevant factors concerning the incident
    I understand that the Council has a duty to protect the interests of the public, and must promote responsible dog ownership. I however submit this most unfortunate incident does not warrant the dog to suffer the restrictions imposed on menacing dogs, never again to socialise freely with her friends in the off-the-lead parks.
    The incident occurred in unusual circumstances, which are unlikely to reoccur.
    The dog did not attack any person (or animal).
    The dog did not attempt to attack any person (or animal).
    The dog did run towards the young girl who was running towards our property, and then growl. This could be startling or disconcerting (particularly for a young child) but I do not think it would be accurate to say that someone would be put in fear by the dog’s actions. The young girl herself did not cry or appear to be visibly upset. Understandably, a mother is very protective of young children, and could react accordingly.
    The nearest the dog approached the young girl was about 4 metres, when it stopped of its own accord.
    I am not aware of any suggestion that the dog snarled, bared its fangs, or raised its hackles.
    I accept and profusely apologise for the fact that Rosie was outside our house property in an unleashed state. An infringement notice has already been issued for Rosie being unleashed. I can only say in part mitigation (not defence) that this was an unusual situation, and I did have her under physical control by grasping the dog quickly. My husband was also just a few metres away.
    General Background to the dog and me as its owner
    I have owned this dog since she was 3 months old. Her previous owner didn’t indicate that she had behavioural issues. In the time I have owned Rosie I consider she has socialised very well with both humans and other dogs. She has been seen by vets for the usual inoculations, etc. and not once during these interventions has she shown aggression or acted in a way which was menacing or frightening. I enclose a letter from Rosie’s usual vet concerning an extended period she observed Rosie.
    Prior to the incident, Rosie had already been desexed, microchipped and registered with the Toowoomba Regional Council.
    Whilst it is true that any breed of dog can be aggressive, Rosie’s breed (a cross between a Border Collie and an Australian Cattle dog) does not suggest any tendency for aggression. The literature I have seen also suggests that such breeds take well to structured training such as the kind that has already been organised for Rosie.
    Enclosed is a petition signed by people who know Rosie and know that they have not seen her aggressive or frightening in any way. The vast majority of these people are dog owners (or family members of dog owners), who have signed the petition knowing that they and their dogs interact with Rosie, and they are happy for that to continue. Two letters of support are also enclosed.
    I have owned dogs on and off for 25 years, and never had any suggestion that any of my dogs would be declared to be a regulated dog. I try to promote responsible pet ownership.
    Steps taken to reduce any future risk
    Even prior to the incident Rosie had already been booked to start dog obedience classes with Toowoomba Dog Obedience Club Inc. Dogs have natural instincts (including chasing, barking/growling etc.), and it is difficult to teach puppies effectively until they have some maturity. In late October 2011, after Rosie had turned 6 months, I rang up the Toowoomba Dog Obedience Club Inc. to book her in for training, but the classes are popular, they have a break over the Christmas holidays, and the earliest I could start Rosie was February 2012. I paid my registration fee in early November 2011, the receipt number for confirmation of payment for the dog obedience class is 354 and you are welcome to contact the club to confirm this.
    Following this very unfortunate incident, I have tried to minimise the risk (present with any dog) of having such kind of event to occur. I have sought the advice of a Toowoomba based Animal Behaviourist practice, Sue Bloom Dog Psychology. Ms Bloom is advising me on how to deal with the issues that occurred here.
    Since the 4 December incident, we have set up an enclosure at our house that meets the requirements of your 8 December 2011 notice. My husband and I are moving to different accommodation with effect from 13 January 2012, which will allow a larger but even more secure enclosure for Rosie.
    Closing remarks
    For all these reasons (including the facts of the incident in question, the general background to the dog, and the steps taken since the incident), I submit that that no menacing dog declaration notice should be issued.
    Should you require any further information or clarification of the matters set out here, do not hesitate to contact me.
    bekah1001 and tigerlily46514 like this.

  2. Anneke Honored Member

    That is a great letter!! Now let's hope the counsil will take in considaration... I pray they will...
  3. helpsavemydog Active Member

    Thankyou I'm also praying alot too. I have just heard today that the council take the whole of January off! Rosie bit through her mussle today as I was going to try again. It is nerve wracking going out, I know for sure she won't bite anyone, but if the council catch her without the mussle I cop a $700 fine. We have just done a 10 kilometre run on the bike so we are both exhausted. I have bought a stiff arm for my bike so all the way she was attached to the bike - great invention for active dogs.
  4. helpsavemydog Active Member

    Thankyou for that advise. We were about to tie her up - I had only just gone out into the yard when all this happened. Something I will never ever do again. We tied her up the other day and she didn't complain at all, which surprised me, we were there of course. Another lady walked passed this time holding her daughters hand and we both greeted each other pleasantly as people do. Rosie didn't even look twice. Oh if only I could have that TERRIBLE Sunday afternoon back when she growled!
  5. running_dog Honored Member

    Thanks for the update, I was just wondering how you were getting on. Great letter. Fantastic news about the new house. You have joined the doggy cyclists too :) ! It is a brilliant way to keep Rosie (and you :ROFLMAO:) exercised. Now you just need the council to be reasonable too...

    Whatever happens you have done and are doing the absolute best that you can for Rosie.
  6. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    awwwww.........good luck on the case, Rosie mom. Hope you win.

    this thread is in multiple spots now,
    and i can't remember if anyone suggested this yet, (probably someone did)
    but, maybe get some trainer to assess Rosie and write up how Rosie is just fine/not a dangerous dog? (cuz Rosie is, okay with ppl, overall, right? not a "shy" dog, right?)
  7. Amateur Experienced Member

    I'm wondering if child services should be called to protect the child whose mother allowed her to run out in the street beyond her protection ... just a thought.
  8. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    oooooooooooooh!! Amateur, now THAT''s a very fascinating idea!! rofl!! too funny!!

    it's amazing,
    that no one has thought of THAT before........heh heh...
    Anneke likes this.
  9. mewzard Experienced Member

    It's scary really - we accept that occasionally children will run into the street "it's something kids do" but a dog growls "the animal is dangerous".

    Which is worse a child putting themselves in harms way or a dog warning you to "back off!"....?
  10. helpsavemydog Active Member

    Well I lost my case for Rosie - for now anyway. She is now classified as a regulated dog. Which basically means if I get caught doing something wrong an instant fine of $700. She has to be kept in a 10sq metre cage (childproof gate and enclosure) if she isn't been taken on a walk, must always be restrained, wear a yellow tag to say that she is a dangerous dog and have a large yellow sign on the fence letting everyone know 'BEWARE DANGEROUS DOG' So I put on the bottom - if you require pet therapy or just want to give Rosie a pat you are very welcome, just knock first.
    I am soooo angry with the council and the lady who complained. Fortunatley my lawyer friend is working on my case. The next step is the tribunal as I have just sent a letter asking for the material which supported this claim of a dangerous menacing dog!
  11. running_dog Honored Member

    Poor Rosie. Poor you.
    You tried... do keep trying... (y)
    I think you are amazing!
    You still have Rosie, you know you can exercise her.
    She doesn't have to wear a muzzle any more, right??????????
  12. helpsavemydog Active Member

    I went to dog obedience last night - supported by our city council I must add. They use choker chains!!! I had a harness on Rosie which we are both happy with. Plus she had to wear a yellow ribbon so everyone stayed clear (remember she is a DANGEROUS DOG) All Rosie wanted to do was play with the other dogs. Half way through the lesson I was given a nose harness with claims it works sooo well when the dog gets used to it. For the rest of the night Rosie kept rubbing the stupid thing off. I am buy a Martingdale collar which is accepted by the club. Does anybody know anything about these?
  13. helpsavemydog Active Member

    That is correct which is fantastic. She hated that mussle, she eventually broke it by just rubbing it on the footpath - I never did replace it. And I think last night when they put the nose harness on her it was bringing all those memories back for her. She is such a darling dog and is no more aggressive than any of your dogs out there, ok she might growl or bark if she hears a stranger but I think that is good.
  14. running_dog Honored Member

    I know what they are but don't know enough about them to comment... I have used one in the past but I think if someone told me what collar to use on my dog now (especially if the collar included a tightening chain portion) I'd tell them to take a long walk off a short pier.
  15. helpsavemydog Active Member

    I went to the Animal Welfare League hear to ask for an assessment but they said they only assess dogs they want to rehome. I have two vets who have sent letters to say Rosie showed no signs of aggresion. So I have done my best but nothing seems to be good enough.
  16. helpsavemydog Active Member

    I couldn't agree more but at the moment I have no choice. Apparently if I attend this obedience class for a year there is a higher chance of the council removing the regulated dog judgement they have on Rosie. Their is three approved collars - the chain choker (they call it some other name), the nose harness or the Martingdale collar
  17. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    OH NOOOOOOO NO NO NO!! NO I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS! Oh, Rosie mom, i'm just devastated alongside with you! ohmidawg, this is outrageous. I'd be beside myself, i just don't know what to say, but i'd hug you,
    and maybe punch a wall if i was there.
    good grief....this is maddening.
    i hope hope hope so much, that your appeal comes through.

    Re: martindale collars, no idea if they are good or not, but they are like "double collars" with one band around TOP of dog's neck, and second band around base of dog's neck, and some straps in between. No idea if they are good or bad, though.

    CHOKE CHAINS?:mad: don't get me started........ohmidawg.
    they made poor Rosie wear a head halter? wha? Oh, i'm so bummed out about all of this, from top to bottom, in every way....
    They are not satisfied with her vest?

    oh good grief.
  18. running_dog Honored Member

    The Martingdale collar has a chain section that tightens but it does sound the best option in the circumstances.

    Have you ever thought of emigrating? There must be places with a better attitude towards dogs! :)
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  19. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    that's awful they just applied a head-halter to the dog, with zero desensitization work first????
    I can't even imagine all the nonsense you will have to put up with in THAT "choke chain" class........i don't know if i'd be able to stomach it all.

    just crazy beyond words.
  20. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Yes, come live here! I have extra room!
    bekah1001 likes this.

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