Discussion in 'Dog Health' started by alexa999, Mar 8, 2009.

  1. alexa999 New Member

    At 6am this morning, I was awakened by an awful nightmare that was really reality.Bubba hada VIOLENT seizure! Drooling,tongue out of mouth, eyes dilated,even lost control of his bladder! It was one of the worst things I've ever witnessed! I was frozen by fear it seemed, and my ol' man clapped his hands and whistled to "snap him out of it". When it was over, he was dazed, and after a few minutes, we took him for a walk for fresh air. He seemed fine. After researching, i learned we shouldn't have turned on the lights,or try to make him "come to". I know i'm gonna be hated, but I did not take him to the vet. I believe in homeopathic/natural remedies for myself and Bubba...I watched him all day while researching...he seems ok. I know all the things it COULD be, but was wondering if a seizure could ever be just a ONE time thing.. I REFUSE to put Bubba on Phenobarbitol or Dilantin! They do awful things to people! He DID eat a new treat yesterday and a handful of new kibble, and that's what I'm hoping is the culprit. I'm exhausted from all that's happened, but scared to go to sleep cuz then Bubba's health wouldn't be monitored...I know,i know- "a vet would monitor him"- but can I PLEASE get some input please BEFORE i go give money i don't have to those "profiteers"!

  2. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Wow, you have my empathy. HOw frightening for you. HOpe your dog is okay.

    I don't know much about dog seizures, but for humans, you protect them from hard/sharp objects, (put pillows, do not push on stiff limbs) monitor airway, and unless you have IV drugs to give them, for an ordinary seizure in known epileptic, often you wait it out. Humans are very very drowsy after seizures, even confused, and need to sleep/rest, sometimes for hours. Again, i don't know if this is true for dogs.

    I too, would be suspicious with the onset of new(?) seizures following new food items, (throw that out, just to be safe) but hopefully, this won't reccur. I empathize with the medical budget, but i hope you can find a vet you do trust to look into this. I don't think all dogs with seizures get meds, i could be wrong, and the vet may indeed want to wait before starting meds anyway. The vet could probably help discover the cause.
    what breed, what age? is your dog?
  3. cleverdogs Well-Known Member

    One of my dogs has epilepsy and mild seizures occassionally, from what I've read dogs often start with it about 3-4 years old so I hope it's a one off for Bubba.

    I think one offs can be caused by injury or poisoning and many other things so please reconsider taking your dog to the vets for a thorough check up just to rule it out.

    I think tigerlily is right, your vet might want to do a blood test to check what's going on in there but probably won't want to go straight to the drugs unless Bubba has more fits.

    That is what happened when my dog had his first fit, we thought it was poisoning too (but I do trust my vet 100%).

    My dog's been on a low dosage of diazepam for four, nearly five, years. He has regular blood tests to make sure the drugs aren't damaging his organs and he's doing great.

    There are some herbal remedies for epilepsy but I've not tried them out (and personally I think you still need a vet diagnosis to rule out anything else first).

    Try not to worry and stay awake 24 hours, I'm sure whatever is wrong he'll feel better and happier if you carry on with normal routine. I know, it's really hard to not worry. :dogunsure:
  4. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    Definitely don't try to pull him out of it--although you're going to want to snuggle him and tell him it's going to be okay, just leave him alone. This is best for any dog, but also because some dogs may eventually get aggressive during seizures(strictly because of the seizure, not at all related to any training or socialization). You cannot "snap him out of it" at all. The seizure lasts its normal length no matter what you do. Some dogs have long ones, some have short ones, and you cannot affect it's length at all.

    Hate to be the bearer of bad news...but I don't see it being a one time only thing. As far as I know, they rarely are one-time occurrences. If it is due to something he ingested or was exposed to, it may be a couple more times before it gets out of his system. If it causes permenant damage then you don't have much choice than to let your vet check him over and figure out what you need to do--homeopathically or with meds. Regardless of whether or not it happens again, you really need to have your vet check him over. You don't have to get any medications, but just figure out what's going on rather than avoiding your vet and having to play detective to figure out Bubba's problem. Find a homeopathic vet anywhere in the country and contact them just to ask some questions. They may be able to help you and even maybe find a vet just outside your area.

    Also, sit down and write a list of new things.

    Where has he been that he could've been exposed to chemicals? Weed killers, fertilizers, cleaners, etc(parks, stores who use chemicals to clean the floors...)

    What, to your knowledge, has he ingested in the last 48 hours(that you know of)? Be sure to keep these and their packaging on hand in case your vet has any questions about them.

    Have you tried any new cleaners in your household or yard?

    Good luck, and best regards to poor Bubba. :dogblush: Don't fret too much--you'll just drive the both of you crazy. Do keep in touch with a vet, so you have a better idea of how to help him and what it could be. Keep your spirits up, and best wishes to you. Keep us posted! :)
  5. snooks Experienced Member

    Nobody is going to hate you for freaking out about something so horrible. I've experienced the exact same situation and it scared me to death. The ONLY worse thing is not knowing. Once I knew what the problem was I felt empowered and ready to protect my dog within the best of my abilities. I knew what to expect, what to do, what the options were, and the future. It was a huge weight off my shoulders.

    Best of all answers is just go to a holistic vet that treats things homeopathically which is just what you want anyway. Find out what the problem is before you worry and blow it all out of proportion or don't get treatment. Despite what you think might be the problem it's often much worse than you worry it will be. The treatment is often much easier and kinder than you think it will be. A holistic vet will work with you and your philosophies and treat your dog homeopathically with a DVM degree behind the treatment program.

    Your dog will profit more from a happy non-stressed healthy mom&dad than two worried guilty feeling hyper vigilant parents. Believe me...I know from experience the hard way on that. Dogs know when they have stressed owners and it makes their personalities different.

    If you don't go to a vet and this has a simple solution that can be homeopathically addressed you're doing you and your dog a disservice. What if it's diabetic seizing? which is lethal and treatable only with insulin? What if it's simple allergy or poisoning. Antifreeze poisoning causes seizures and the antidote is only effective if administered in a certain few crucial hours. Otherwise kidney failure and a painful slow self-poisoning from necrosis are the result. All of these things if unaddressed are much much worse than the possible side effects of treatment. Organ failure and brain damage can be very slow and painful ways to die. My uncle died of untreated diabetes had an awful death. He refused to go to the doctor because he didn't want to know. He basically died of poisoning after multiple organ failures caused organs to die and go gangrenous. All preventable with a natural compound, insulin.

    I had a teenage friend with epilepsy that was finally correctly treated and got to go to "normal" school at 15. It was the most wonderful thing in her life. You say these drugs do horrible things to people but the truth is much much more often they work miracles. My GSD had seizures when she was 5 or so and they were so rare that we could never determine the cause. Finally we got blood levels at just the right time it and it was blood sugar. She was hypoglycemic. Solution she ate every few hours and every now and then some maple syrup. YAY she was thrilled with that. The alternative was organ failure and brain damage. So don't freak about this and don't deny medical treatment because you want to deny anything is wrong-because it's very traumatic-I really do understand. And nobody can make you "give" your dog anything. We treated our GSD with pheno in very low doses later in life and she had no side effects. Most people that take pheno you never would know. I've taken pheno and dilantin and depacote and neurontin and they had few to no side effects. They unf didn't work for my problem.

    I have a movement disorder and I take plenty of drugs that I would rather not as I feel homeopathic is better for me too. I go to extremes with my health diet and doctors and I never ever take OTC junk. The reality is that there is no replacement for the one organic chemical I need except for that chemical which my own brain doesn't make enough of. Even that chemical, as homeo as it gets, has side effects because my stomach doesn't metabolize it across the blood brain barrier. Even natural organic homeopathic compounds have side effects, your own brain has its own imperfections regardless if you know or not. So to compare a homeo remedy to a pharmaceutical remedy is not always apples to apples. My natural compound comes with side effects because I must eat it. It is a blessing that gave me my life back so I am willing to compromise on that with the few side effects like nausea and hyperactivity which are seldom as compared to being mostly immobile. Mostly immobile people die much quicker than active ones. The whole idea about homeo with me is living longer so I can't defeat my own purpose by being too rigid.

    When I see you say I refuse to give these drugs be sure it's because you are educated about the drugs, have consulted doctors, know your animal is not suffering, and weighed the other options. If he is suffering without pheno for example would you rather him suffer? Of course not but you need to make that decision from an informed place not an emotional reactive one. I refused drugs for a long time and suffered through a lot I didn't need to. I don't even take Tylenol. Just do the research, in correct therapeutic ranges these older drugs like pheno have no side effects. Many people every year poison themselves with herbal remedies that have toxic liver side effects or cause renal failure. So look at the whole picture.

    So don't believe that there aren't other answers or that drugs are nec bad or not natural in many cases. Thyroid hormones treat thyroid disorders very effectively and naturally. In the right dose with the right doc medication can give back life and can be natural. I decided I would much rather have a few side effects that are miniscule compared to being not able to walk or feed myself. You just have to ask is the disorder worse than the possible drug side effect? If the disorder is miserable then why live with it? If its mild or controllable by other means sure go for it. Many seizures can be treated with acupuncture and other therapies.

    Quality of life should be at the top of the list ultimately. Knowledge is your ultimate homeopathic tool. Without it you'll never know if it wasn't very simple. For a serious health issue forcing an animal to suffer debilitating symptoms is not the kindest option. I liken it to having an animal hit by a car and not operating because you don't want the anesthesia chemicals in their system. That would be abusive and is by law abuse. You have to make a decision about what is right for the animal. It is your job to find out if it is suffering and not just choose to remain in the dark. You owe it to him since he'd lay down his life for you.

    I'm not trying to change your mind about your philosophies-I agree with them actually. Just trying to get you to empower yourself and give yourself a break. You are having a natural reaction and going through a little denial/grief/fear maybe. Take charge and do something and you'll feel INSTANTLY better I promise. Hugs to you guys and your special pup. You can do this for him.
  6. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    Very well said Snooks.
  7. alexa999 New Member

    DTA members are THE BEST!!!!!!

    Before I reply to each post individually, I hafta say all the members of that I've had the priviledge of communicating with,are w/o a doubt w/in a certain class of folk! It truly "does my heart good"knowing that there are still good people out in this world. The GENUINE CARING,EMPATHY,& HONESTY that I felt while reading the replies to my post has brought a new sense of calm to the situation.THANK YOU-SINCERELY! MUAH!MUAH!MUAH! DTA members ROCK!!!
  8. snooks Experienced Member

    Oh good. I feel so much better reading that post than the first. Hang tough.
  9. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    How sweet. :)

    Good news for you, we just had a member join who has a DVM in homeopathy. I gave her a link to this thread. Hope she gets to ya.

    Hope Bubba's doing well.
  10. alexa999 New Member

    He's mostly chow, and a lil' bit of Rottweiller,8 years old. I did throw out the food,got him on Lotus now. Thabk you so much for your input!
  11. alexa999 New Member

    I was gonna reply to each post individually, but I have the same thing to say to all: Thank you from the bottom of my heart for enlightening me and trying to help my Bubba! I'm making an appt. today w/ the vet! Ya'll are right-not knowing is worse. After I get his results, I'll letcha'll know- and maybe we can have another "meeting of the minds"! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
  12. snooks Experienced Member

    I'll cross fingers and my girls will cross paws. We'll all hope for the best and please do let us know.
  13. alexa999 New Member

    Bubba update!

    I followed everyone's advice, and took Bubba to the vet...I did some research on where I should take him, and was extremely fortunate to have found a vet that breaks the mold of stereotypical doctors! We love Dr. Tran! She's NOT a profiteer! She GENUINELY cares! Anyhoo... she gave me a referral for a neurologist for Bubba. He has an appt. Tuesday- too far way, but they didn't have anything sooner. Bubba's history: First seizure was 6am Friday morning(March 6); had another one 9:30 pm Wednesday(March11);went to vet next morning(3/12) then had ANOTHER seizure 2:10pm (3/13)and AGAIN @ 4am this morning (3/14)!!!!! I don't think I can make it 3 more days! I know there's NOTHING I can do at this point...which is the worst feeling EVER!
  14. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Oh, i'm so sorry, how terrible for Bubba and for you. Keep us posted, and hang in there..
  15. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    Glad to hear you've found a vet you're more happy with. :) Goodness, definitely something there. Good luck, lots of prayers from us, and keep us posted.
  16. snooks Experienced Member

    You might ask about a few days of valium or like drugs to help with the frequency. That does sound like a lot of seizures to a non vet like me. Valium metabolized very fast and is out of the system that day. Sometimes is has a stimulant effect on people and dogs so it may not be appropriate but at least if stopped before ur visit to the neuro it would have less chance of interfering. Don't be afraid to call the neuro and say this is a lot of seizures--is there anything in the interim that will help either that I can do or give him?? There may not be but it never ever hurts to ask.

    You really have to take the reins and be your dog's advocate sometimes. Just as in human medicine. Sometimes they look for common things first and the common may not be the issue. If I had a dollar for every time I should have insisted on further info, tests, second opinions. Don't accept a vanilla or unexplained diagnosis if there are non-invasive tests that you are willing to pay for like cat scan, x-ray, or blood etc. Ask and research the answers and the homeopathic remedies and ask about them in follow up if you need to call on the phone you can save an office visit fee. At least with the neuro you'll get some very experienced specialized advice. If you can video any odd behavior or seizures it might help too. I burned some to a DVD b/c my boy didn't behave the same at the vet when excited as he did at home. The neuro diagnosed his issue based first on the video behavior then confirmed with a cat scan. So he was able to narrow down the possibilities and get to the answer quicker.

    Some advice--ask for and hand carry a copy of your dog's records. Even if they say they will or have faxed them. More than half the time mine didn't get there despite calling to check that day and I got less than all the info in the doc's hands. Take copies or the originals of any films or tests already done so you won't have to pay again or to be sure there is a base line if needed. Most of the time they can burn these to DVD or they may already be digital for you. Sometimes there are things on the printed test results that a neuro may target that the regular vet doesn't notice as significant because it's an obscure finding.

    I'm so so glad u found a vet u liked. I bet that's a relief by itself. I'm betting you'll be very glad for the neuro consult.
  17. alexa999 New Member


    It has only been 33 hours since my last post, but it feels like 3 or 4 days! At that time, Bubba had had his 4th seizure w/in 8 days.Then ANOTHER one came only 17 hours later, and it was MORE severe, and it took him (what seemed like) forever to come out of the fog... I'm still foggy... As soon as we thought we made it through the traumatic experience, and maybe kinda sorta relax...8 hours later, he had the most severe of them all.(6 total in 8 days)
    He was more confused than ever and for a lot longer amount of time. I would have fallen apart way before now if I had not found my angel, Dr.Tina Tran in long beach. She was taking the time either in between patients, or AFTER HOURS to check up on our status, always answering my questions,and going above and beyond.. She tried her best to soften the blow as much as she could of the truth hitting my ears... i had been encouraged to by others follow through w/ the neurologist appt. even though it was days away... and at best,the only thing the neurologist would be able to do for me and Bubba is to basically give "it" a name, and figure out WHICH medications he was going to take.It was never a "whether or not" thing- it was WHICH! There was definitely something wrong w/ the "firing order" in his brain- not making normal,regular connections. It was the most painful to witness,because he didn't know WUT THE HECK was happening, and why it was happening to HIM!...and I couldn't explain why. I couldn't let my baby go through that again- not one more time! I didn't care wut IT was called, or what caused IT- I just wanted IT to STOP! NOTHING was going to make the seizures magically disappear. The DRUGS would only make the seizures less frequent. It was definitely his brain-everything else had been ruled out. I put myself in Bubba's "shoes", and I knew he wouldn't wanna live that way.So i did right by my lil' Bubba!WUT ELSE? He went to "Bubba's Disneyland" TWICE today-total of 3-4 hours and was the HAPPIEST!!!! He was chasing squirrels, trying to catch rabbits, running&leaping& playing ... basically,JUST BEING BUBBA! I wanted him to have the most fun today, get completely tuckered out- so he could fall asleep easily and more peacefully than ever before....and awake in a better place...
    REST IN PEACE BUBBA-CHEESE, BUBBA LA BRRREEZE, BABY BUTT WIGGLER,LIL CHEESE BURGER SQUIZZER! No more suffering.He's better off! I believe in QUALITY of life- NOT quantity of existence... I know I did the right thing for him...
    WOW!It's taken me almost 3 hours to type this post! In a way, I feel as though all of you were/are right there w/ me through all of this! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!DTA members ROCK! So please, when ur done reading this,open your arms up really wide,and blow the biggest kiss ever, up to the sky and give Bubba a shout out! But be QUICK...cuz u might miss him!Bubba was one of the FASTEST dogs ever lived, no denying one of the "HANDSOME EST" and w/o a doubt THE BESTEST!!! So give him props and SMILE!!!! BUBBA'S ALL BETTER!I love you BUBBA!
  18. snooks Experienced Member

    Oh alexa I'm so sorry this was so severe. It sounds like he had such a wonderful life and love with you. A very lucky boy indeed. I just wish the outcome had been different. Thank goodness you got a good support network adn some help though. It does help so muck. You'll be foremost in my thougths today and I'll send some special thoughtst to you and Bubba. It sounds like the new vet was a blessing. Hang in there.
  19. maggies mom Well-Known Member

    With tears in my eyes.......I want to say "I'm so sorry for your loss"
  20. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Oh Alexa, oh i'm so so sorry. I'll burn a candle tonight for you and your precious lil Bubba.

    A friend of mine recently lost her beloved dog, here is a poem she received.

    "Why Dogs don't live as long as people"
    Being a veterninian, I had been called to perform the euthanasia procedure for an old beloved dog. I felt the familiar catch in my throat as the dog's family surrounded him. We sat together for a while after the dog's death, wondering aloud about the sad the fact that dog lives are shorter than human lives. I'd never heard a more comforting explanation:
    The child said, "People are born, so that they can learn how to live a good life- like loving everybody all the time and being nice, right? well, dogs already know how to do that, so they don't have to stay as long."

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