So, Mud had a breakthrough with pivoting a while back, and we have gotten to a point where she will pivot a half-circle one way and not quite a half-circle the other way, without any cues of any kind. Basically I've just been shaping up to a full circle. I stopped working on it for a bit because I can't get her to make more than a half-circle without me directing her in some way, and I don't want to reward the half-circles so much that she thinks that's what she's supposed to do. She will pivot a full circle if I walk around the stool we are using for this. But if I don't, half circle only. I've tried sending her to the stool so that she has to turn a little more than a half-circle to face me, and I did try learning for one session, but didn't want to use luring too much. I'm a bit confused as to how I want to continue with this. Kikopup's pivoting video uses mostly luring, because the video was made for someone whose dog was punished for offering behaviors, so they couldn't use shaping. Silvia Trkman's heeling DVD uses 100% shaping. With Kikopup, once the dog will pivot with a lure she will lure them into heel position and reward there. With Silvia, once the dog is 100% at pivoting both ways, she steps in the way so the dog comes into contact with her leg, and she rewards there. Silvia's dogs have a much "stickier" heel, probably because they actually do make contact with the leg with this method. Anyway....so I'm not sure where to go from here. I really wanted to 100% free shape this, mostly following Silvia's DVD, but I'm stuck. By the way, my goal through teaching this trick is to get a backwards heel, backwards weave, and various other backwards tricks. I know I can accomplish this with either method. Not sure about Kikopup's, but I with Silvia's basically the dog just knows to stick to the leg, so without really teaching backwards heel, sidestepping, and a few others, they pretty much just do it because they are following the leg. So I guess my questions are: -What other things can I do with shaping to get a full circle both ways? Or, should I just go to luring? I think I'm making this more complicated than it is, lol. I need to watch Silvia's DVD again and see if I can answer some of my own questions, but it's grown legs. I'm about ready to call in a search party, lol!