How Do You Make Your Dog Tired?

[tigerlily46514]

Great posts above.

Yeah, 100 cues per year seems like one is not fully polishing off the cue to make it rock solid, either.

and yeah, training is for FUN, it's not a competition, imo. I hate to see anyone feeling some kind of pressure to have their dog be "best" at everything every day......wow, that'd bite to feel that! I hope we are being successful at helping you reconsider that inner pressure.
lol,
i LAFF at my dog can not do a proper beg, my dog has trouble with almost ALL "head" tricks, and has tendency to zoom up all his tricks to warp speed ...what a bummer if i felt ashamed about it, my dog IS who he is, and that is that, and i love him just the way he is, whether he has a trophy or not, he's MY lil furkid, "best" or not!!
Same for my human kids, never crossed my mind, when my kid came in "not first", to feel anything but joy they'd tried so well, and had so much fun and learned so much, etc.....


and i am now questioning the difference between saying one's dog is not tired,
and objecting to the dog's behavior regarding his energy level or behavior around the house.......almost never does my dog drive me nutz not ever....i rather enjoy his antics, but we are a very pro-DOG home, and generally very tolerant humans anyway.....there are times, when my dog is herding his laundry baskets around the house,
that we look at each other and chuckle, "do you suppose THIS is why someone threw this dog away?" and make popcorn and enjoy "The Buddy Show".

....I rarely object to my dog's behavior around the house, (he is adult, though, but pretty rambunctious!) although no one looking at him would say he is "tired". He is NOT destructive, if he is kept busy enough.

If your dog is having a behavioral issue, that's one thing. If he is just lively and running about, where is the problem? If you want a calmer dog, that video above can possibly give you some ideas on how to encourage calm behavior.

dogs notice, remember and tend to repeat behavior they get rewarded for....so if it's calmness you want more of, try to reward dog when he IS doing what you like!!


BUT I SO ADMIRE YOUR EFFORTS TO ENSURE YOU ARE PROVIDING RIGHT AMT OF EXERCISE FOR YOUR DOG, WISH MORE PPL DID THAT!!

 

[tigerlily46514]

and yeah, i can picture a young dog needing more than one walk a day. Your current WEEKLY schedule sounds great to me,
but, i can picture adding in TWO OR THREE walks per day could help,
and mayyyyyyyyyybe not so many days between outings. Maybe take dog to walk in a park on thursdays, too? so he doesn't have 4 days in a row
where he is only getting 1 walk per day,
that might not be enough for such a young energetic dog.



I worry a lil more about the limits on young dog's skeleton,
more than i worry about creating a dog who needs exercise, as i love exercising my dog anyway.
Many experts think a young dog under 18 mos old should not jump too high, nor run too far, (like, don't tie a puppy to a bike and ride for miles and miles ) nor walk too too far if under 12 mos old, nor stand on only two legs, til their skeleton is fully hardened. but this may be less of a concern for small dogs than it is for bigger dogs.

but yeah, one walk a day, for 4 days in row-------and even my adult dog would go bonkers.

some people suspect, there may be some connection
between a dog's activity level,
and days the dog is "bratty".....http://www.dogtrickacademy.com/members/forums/threads/does-your-dog-have-bratty-days.5092/

 

[tigerlily46514]

My dog also acts up in the evenings,
if he did NOT get enough exercise or outings or lessons or stimulation that day..........one 45 minute walk is not enough for MY dog anyway.......

i see it like this:
I pretend my dog gets up every day with so much energy,
lets say it is dollars that he HAS to spend or he goes nutz.

Pretend my dog gets up every day with $10 worth of energy , he HAS TO spend that day.

If evening is coming on, and he did not go anywhere that day, or get enough exercise,
there he is, with $6 worth of energy still left!! He HAS TO spend it, see? so he will begin doing laps, herding his baskets more furiously, shaking his toys around, doing more laps around the house, etc etc, doing all he can to burn off that last $6 worth of energy before bedtime....


but, besides his lessons,
if i take my dog somewhere,
or bring him to a fenced in empty school yard or tennis court, or a fenced in field,
so he can run about, running full speed and free,
or to a park for his walk instead of his own street, etc,
have a car ride too! and feel like he "went somewhere/did something"
he wont' have that evening "gotta hurry up and spend THIS energy" thing.....

 

[tigerlily46514]

//"and maybe put her in the crate more for some calm alone time (maybe in the eveing when she starts being naughty)."//


this could backfire.

Caging up a dog who only got one walk that day, and is now boiling over with unspent energy might not work out so well.........your dog might end up just chewing up his crate in frustration......

a better plan, worth considering,
to get more calmness from your young dog,
is giving dog 2 or 3 walks per day, not just one,
and adding in an outing on thursdays to break up the 4 days of nothingness there,
and this idea:

or this:

 

[tigerlily46514]

//"And I was aiming for her to learn 100 cues within the year (we got her at christmas, so I wanted 100 cues by next christmas). I think she is at about 50 so far."//


it's nice to have goals, but, don't set yourself up for a letdown. It's hard to imagine, a dog totally polishing off 2 tricks per week every week, to perfection. YOu might make it, you might find some cues take longer than 3 days to polish to perfection.
Getting a dog to do a rollover in your living room,
might be different than getting your dog to do a rollover outdoors when there is a squirrel in the yard, too. Getting a dog to do tricks amidst distractions is yet another level of trick training worth striving towards.

I don't see the need to cut back trick training, but, remember,
the main number one thing trick training should be (in my opinion) is
FUN
FUN
FUN....for BOTH you AND the dog.

imo, THAT is the main thing to stay focused on, is ensuring it is FUN!!

 

[Mutt]

I can only agree with the above

 

[648117]

We have been doing a little less new trick training lately and just been working on the old tricks and getting them better (eg, working on "leave it" and heelwork) and getting the verbal cues stronger.
The "100 cues" are not all tricks and she is already at around 50 and it's only the start of July. And they include the most basic cues that she had to learn when really young like sit, down, stay, come etc which didn't take much effort and agility ones like tunnel, jump, front crosses (it's not really a cue as such but I'm counting it) which she didn't really need to be taught either. So it's not really that many.

I haven't really put her in the crate more than she was before. She sleeps in there and goes in there when no one is home (maybe two hours maximum during the day). And she has unlimited access to our backyard through the dog door when not in her crate.

On her 45 minute walks she always gets at least one (but usually two) off-leash run-arounds, one near the start of the walk and one near the end.

But I will try to take her somewhere more exciting on Thursdays.

The only difficult bit is that it is winter so during the week it can be harder to do stuff in the evening before it gets too dark (I don't really like being out in the dark, especially when it's just me and Holly). Agility class is ok because although it is in the evening it is inside. It's usually starting to get dark by the end of the 45 minute walks that we have during the week so if I tried to extend that or go somewhere that took longer it would be dark.

We like her doing zoomies in the house (it's pretty funny) as long as it doesn't upset Paris and she can chase the cat in the house if she wants because when the cat has had enough she will turn around and let Holly know - and the cat is bigger than Holly and it is also funny to watch when the cat decides to just sit down and Holly is trying to get it to run (she does lots of play bows and little barks while the cat glares at her ) .

Her version of being calm is chewing. That's why she has to have a chew or kong in the evening and then if she isn't being naughty she is chewing one of her chew toys, or her deer antler, or a stick.

 

[Mutt]

Even if that is the case with the tricks I still personaly wouldn't set a goal like that and I have to say that I only count a trick aa thought if the dog fully understands it...
When she is in yhe yard, does she settle or is she busy the whole time? When it is the last one, that means this also counts as being active.
I wouldn't go for exiting, just for a walk.
Fun doesn't have to mean a hyperactive activity.
I for example live quite remote so when I walk with the dogs in the woods (which we do every walk),
Its just the three of us.
I personally wouldn't allow a dog to chase other animals, because this isn't fun at all for the other animal. And in my eyes behavior due to not enough rest. even if the cat in your case will eventually respond.
Chewing is not rest/calm, it is being active, only in a other way.
But I'm getting the idea that you don't agree with me, so I rest my case

 

[648117]

No, I do agree that she is too active in general.

I think she does get enough exercise especially compared to many dogs that get far far less and are able to be calm most of the time.

It's just Tigerlily thinks that three days (Wednesday, Thursday and Friday) in a row of just a walk (with off-leash time) could be considered boring so maybe I need to do something more interesting with Holly on Thursdays (more interesting/exciting than her usual walk and training session).

a better plan, worth considering,
to get more calmness from your young dog,
is giving dog 2 or 3 walks per day, not just one,
and adding in an outing on thursdays to break up the 4 days of nothingness there,

So I'm getting mixed messages about whether I should be giving Holly more exercise/stimulation or should be putting her in her crate more for calm time. I don't really think any reasonable amount of exercise/stimulation is going to make her tired. She probably just needs to grow out of this behaviour in her own time. I'm not really too worried, I just don't want to be giving her too little exercise or over-stimulating her mind and risking it leading to problems that she can't just grow out of.

Chewing is not rest/calm, it is being active, only in a other way.

She does chew a lot, I know chewing is not the same as resting, I would estimate she spends at least half an hour to an hour chewing her chew toys per day (spread over the day, although it is hard to estimate). If her evening chew is a pork-hide barrel it takes her about an hour of non-stop chewing to eat the entire thing (and she will chew it till it's gone so she is easily capable of chewing non-stop for an hour and then not being tired once she's done, I don't let her have more than one of these per week though), if it is a dried lambs ear or bully stick its under 10 minutes, a frozen kong lasts about 45 minutes.

When she is in yhe yard, does she settle or is she busy the whole time?

When she is in the backyard she is usually sniffing around (I suspect looking for cat poop to eat), although she has dug a hole in the lawn once and she sometimes barks at birds a little bit, but not often. She doesn't ever settle in the backyard or lie down or sit, probably because it is winter and no one else is out there with her (except sometimes one of the cats or Paris).

Holly only really interacts with two of our cats.

She only chases one cat (Grace), she doesn't chase her everytime she sees her or anything, only if Grace lets her. Holly will sleep next to one of our other cats (Tilly). Tilly usually spends the evening rolling around on the lounge floor or sitting on a chair next to the dogs. So I don't see the cat chasing as a problem because she knows that cats do not equal chasing. Just sometimes Grace will play and can be chased if she is in the mood. Grace is not afraid of the dogs at all and sometimes sits next to the dog door and slaps them if they try to go through it (we have found Paris stuck outside before because Grace wouldn't let her in).

As for teaching Holly to settle like in the kikopup videos:
Holly does settle when on-leash. In class when we are waiting she just calmly sits and then lies down (I rewarded this in puppy class when she was little) and if I put her leash on her at home and hold it/put it under my foot and sit down than she will lie down but she looks unhappy about it.
But I cannot sneak up on her at home to give her a treat for just lying there calmly because if she is just lying there then she will immediately get up when I get up and she isn't likely to be just lying there anyway, she will be either chewing or sleeping.

 

[tigerlily46514]

//"So I'm getting mixed messages about whether I should be giving Holly more exercise/stimulation or should be putting her in her crate more for calm time"//

Yes, i think you are getting mixed messages on this , i agree,
so it's up to you to decide what Holly needs.
It's good to hear different points of view to consider.

I don't think putting an active dog who has leftover energy to burn, into a cage, is going to solve the problem, but, it's an option you can do if you think that is best solution.
I think if Paris is upset by Holly running around,
you might want to work on desensitizing Paris to the sight of a dog running around, and focus on teaching Paris how to be calm, too!! like in the video above.

I think the only harm in setting such a high list of tricks to be trained is,
you could set your own self up for a let down,
and
you might not be polishing off the tricks to be solidly understood by HOlly,
but, i do NOT think tricks training,
in ANY way,
contributes to behavioral issues or hyperactivity or "over-stimulation" or whatever. (if done in positive only way)In fact, i think tricks training is something we can use to REDUCE hyperactivity and boredom.



//"Wednesday: 45 minute walk
Thursday: 45 minute walk
Friday: 45 minute walk"//


Your dog may be different,
but my dog would go NUTZ if that was all he got for exercise, for three days in a row, (sorry it IS 3 days, not 4, sorry! i misread)
even with tricks lessons each day. My dog WOULD eat the sofa out of boredom and frustration .

Five minutes off leash on the walks would NOT help my dog see that as sufficient.
but all dogs are unique.

I totally understand the wintertime problems,
i have same exact problem.
I do indoor agility,
have dog run up/down stairs,
take him visiting pals,
do lots of games like "find the toy" and up the tricks training,
trips to hardware stores (often allow dogs) or quickie trip to Petsmart,
and have play outdoors as much as i can anyway, unless it is too icey.
I am fortunate that there is a well lit, very safe school yard on busy corner
where i can take Buddy to run offleash.


I don't see where this young dog needs more rest, (????) imo,
but more exercise. YET, if you DO want to teach Holly how to be calm,
the video is there to look over. Just putting a dog into a cage,
and teaching a dog how to be calm,
might not be exact same thing. Have you looked over the video yet?

 

[tigerlily46514]

Reply #3 on this thread,
*might* also help your dog on boring winter days
http://www.dogtrickacademy.com/members/forums/threads/does-your-dog-have-bratty-days.5092/

as could finding a walking partner so you feel safe to have winter walks. It'd be two-fer, you could both stay fit during winter times, and the dogs would be happier.

 

[tigerlily46514]

I feel a dog can be active and zoom about,
and still have also calm times on same exact day.

my dog does this.
My dog can chill quietly next to us,
and later,
also have zoomies herding his baskets around...
and around...
and around.......

yet, he can also be calm, an hour later....on exact same day. Actually, he does this every single day.

i do not feel the times when my dog is super active,
in any way,
reduces his ability to calm in the evenings.
in fact,
i feel for MY dog,
if he DIDN'T get to be superactive--------he would NOT be able to calm down in evenings.


Allowing or encouraging a dog to be superactive,
does not
in anyway,
mean the dog will now become superactive 24/7.


but, again,
if you want to learn HOW to help Holly become calmer,
do watch the video.??
but, a young dog who is only gettting one walk per day,
for 4 days in a row,
may have a valid complaint... Evne most geezer dogs need more than 1 walk per day to stay sane.

 

[tigerlily46514]

//"As for teaching Holly to settle like in the kikopup videos:
Holly does settle when on-leash. In class when we are waiting she just calmly sits and then lies down (I rewarded this in puppy class when she was little) and if I put her leash on her at home and hold it/put it under my foot and sit down than she will lie down but she looks unhappy about it."//


lol, sorry, i am JUST NOW reading this part, sorry!
One can carry treats in their pockets, or keep some nearby.

Maybe wear a lil dog treat container, like a fanny pack style of thing.

click/treat calmness months ago,

in an entirely different location and set up,
might need some ongoing work.
just like any other behavior or trick,


If Holly is looking unhappy about it, try watching the video one more time?? there is a difference between training a "stay"
or training a dog to stay by your feet,
and rewarding calmness....

 

[tigerlily46514]

but 64817,
HANG IN THERE,
and i think you will solve this. I THINK YOUR DOG IS LUCKY TO HAVE SUCH A THOUGHTFUL OWNER,
who cares so much,
who is trying to find best way to help Holly have fun and great life! KUDOS TO YOU!! WISH MORE PPL DID THIS!!!

i might be dense,
but, it is still unclear to ME what the problem IS.
sorry, but, exactly what is it that Holly is doing,
that you want her to stop doing?



My dog "not being tired",
is usually not seen as a problem to me.
My dog doing laps in the house, for me, is not a problem. We've re-arranged our furniture to make it easier for him to do laps,
and we've added in some throw rugs to help make the turns too!!
Now, if he ate the sofa, that's a problem, but, he doesn't....probably cuz we let him do laps when he wants to.

I sort of understand you are saying your dog is "not tired",
but, what is it -----specifically----------that Holly is doing that you do not like?

 

[648117]

I think if Paris is upset by Holly running around,
you might want to work on desensitizing Paris to the sight of a dog running around, and focus on teaching Paris how to be calm, too!!

It's not really the sight of her running around that upsets Paris, it's when Paris is being calm lying on a chair and then Holly uses the back of that chair as a spring board by jumping over Paris.
Or if Paris is on the floor Holly will try to jump over Paris and crash into her then zoom off then crash at Paris again and pull her ears. When Paris has enough of it and tries to tell Holly off, but because she is so frail she ends up losing her breath and coughing but Holly keeps crashing into Paris until we put Holly in the crate or pick her up. Holly also does the crashing into Paris thing straight after every walk.

In the evening if no one is being interesting she goes off and makes her own fun by being naughty. She will not just lie down with everyone and be calm (unless she is chewing) until she suddenly goes to sleep. She'll be active and moving around one minute and then the next she will jump onto the seat next to Paris and go to sleep, she does not calm down first. She usually goes to sleep between about 9:30 and 10:30pm, it's like a switch goes off and she goes to sleep.

Having treats on me is not likely to help because she will get up if I get up (so when she actually gets the treat she will not be calm anymore), she isn't calm very often so catching her being calm will ba hard, and when she is calm it is not with arms reach (she does not sit on laps or cuddle, she's not really bothered about getting pats).

I just would like her to be calmer in the evenings so I don't have to stop her doing something naughty every 10 minutes. But like I said, I guess I'm not really that worried or stressed about it. I mainly just wanted to know if there was anything I could do to make her more tired and relaxed in the evening.

 

[tigerlily46514]

//"she isn't calm very often so catching her being calm will ba hard, and when she is calm it is not with arms reach "//

she doesn't have to be in arm's reach, do watch the video, you can sit where you are, with your treats hidden away beside you,
when you spot Holly being calm,
CLICK, and toss the treat to her. When Holly goes back to calm, click/treat again.
over and over. Only when she is calm, and keep doing it.
With some REPETITION, (not just once per evening)
Holly will probably notice, "AH HA! Mom DOES like it when i am calm, ohhhh, got it!"

like they show in the video. I keep getting feeling you have not really watched the video.



okay,now i better understand about Paris and Holly, and Paris does have a valid complaint there, i get it now.
I think you can solve that one, not sure how yet, but, i think that is solvable.
Maybe it's easier to start with when Holly crashes into Paris after a walk first.

//"Holly also does the crashing into Paris thing straight after every walk."//

This might take a few tries til we hit upon something that will work.
but something will work, sooner or later.
How about this,
how about,
when you finish walk,
and are now bringing Holly into home,
you keep Holly on leash for a while,
you sit down somewhere,
and ask her for a sit. CLICK/TREAT the sit.

Keep Holly on leash for another five minutes, and have Holly continue in a sit, or a down.

Sometimes, when i am about to ask my dog to do something i am not sure he will do,
i FIRST ask for a sit,
and THEN i ask for a down, or "a whatever". so even if you want a down,


maybe try asking for a sit first...?

Keep calmly praising Holly for this down, and give treats now and then to Holly for keeping this down. It's okay to massage her lil back if Holly finds that soothing. CLICK/TREAT any signs of calmness,

or for ignoring Paris.


if Holly breaks her down,
ask for it again.
After five minutes, drop leash.
If Holly does not jump on Paris, remove leash, and click/treat Holly for not jumping on Paris.

worth a try, but, like i said,
this might need tweaking along the way.

 

[tigerlily46514]

do you have a fenced in yard?

if so, another option, might be, after a walk,
bring Holly right through house, onleash,
and let her out into backyard til she releases all her excitement about her walk.

when you bring Holly back into home,
after being out in her own yard,
keep Holly onleash, and do the "you and Holly sit and be calm" for five minutes,
while CLICK/TREAT
any signs of calmness/ignoring Paris during that time.


Don't underestimate your dog, Holly is way smarter than you are probably giving her credit for. Dogs DO notice, remember,
and repeat
behaviors they are REWARDED for....give Holly a lil chance to understand what you DO want her to do instead of jumping on Paris.



Help Holly be able to do what you want,
and show Holly what you DO want,
and REWARD her for it, so Holly will notice, remember, and repeat that behavior.



It will take more than one reward, see? It will take more than one lesson, but i bet----if you help Holly do what you DO want,
and if you REWARD Holly for doing what you DO want,
Holly will get it.

 

[tigerlily46514]

One other thing worth trying,
to help elicit calmness in your dog,
that i use allllllllllllll the time,
i mean allllllllll the time,
is try talking to Holly in HER OWN language. some ppl laugh,
but, it works for me anyway.

Next time you want Holly to calm down,
offer Holly a yawn,
some sloow blinks,
and one (1) deep slow exhalation through your nose.

Holly will know what you said, that's HER language.
She may
or may not be able to do what you said, "calm down"
but, she will know what you said.

when i offer my dog calming signals, sometimes he turns his head away (good answer)
or sometimes he agrees with his own slow blinks or yawns or deep sighs.

lol, sometimes, in the evening, i do a deep slow exhalation out of my nose,
and in seconds, Buddy does exact same thing back to me...too funny.

 

[tigerlily46514]

you can also CLICK/TREAT any calming signals you observe Holly doing. C/T any slow blinks, deep slow exhalations from her nose, or yawns.

some ppl see lip licks as calming signals, whereas i sort of see lip licks more as a way of saying "that's too much for me, i'm getting nervous, stop what you are doing" rather than a calm thing...but, that's just me! I generally do not reward lip licks, cuz to me, that is my dog saying, "i'm nervous".

(again, you can wear a treat bag, and TOSS the treat, you don't have to be right next to Holly,and you don't have to get up to toss treats)

 

[Anneke]

I see where Mutt is coming from, as we probably train in the same way, judging by the link she posted
It is true that some dogs CAN be overstimulated, but I don't really get that impression here.
My Jinx has her thing too, where she throws around her toy and goes nuts for a while. She would like to molest Cooper, but she doesn't dare, as Cooper will tell her to buzz off

How about keeping her busy in a different way. Redirect as to say. Maybe a treatball would help? It would give her the chance to chase, push, jump on, burn her energy, but stay focused on that ball, instead of Paris?
I rotate toys aswell. So sometimes I pull out a "new" toy for her to play with and if she is bothering Cooper or my cat too much, I will step in and play with her for a while.

I had a chuckle when you said you can't treat Holly for lying down, because she gets up when you get up. That is exactly what Jinx does. No matter how deep she sleeps, when I get up, she gets up.
There were times, when she was al little pup, I would have to stay put, just because she needed to sleep That's why my laptop is next to the sofa