Frustrated and confused!!!

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself' started by hunniedoll, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. hunniedoll New Member

    I have had my new black lab for about 2 months now... His name is Link. I adopted him from the SPCA and he is about 1 1/2 years old. I have all the basic commands down... Sit, Lay, Stay & come. But it seems after that... he is at a stand still. I tried to teach him to roll over and he just wasn't getting it at all. I know that patience is key... but I have been trying endlessly and perhaps I am doing something wrong. I tried to put him in the proper position and praising him with treats and lots-o-love... but he just looks at me confused and sad because all he wants to do is make me happy ^_^ Help!!! :dogsad:

  2. szecsuani Experienced Member

    Welcome to DTA!
    This is the problem with adopted dogs, you never know what happened to them before... :( (my dog is adopted too)

    Try some shaping games. Just sit down, with a bunch of treats in front of you, and click for anything he does. Really anything. Don't look for a behaviour, you just want him to realise that learning is FUN ,and he can't do anything wrong. Of course you will need to get him used to the clicker, if you didn't do it already.
    Do this for a looong time, that is enough for him to go crazy about learning. When he understtod, that learning is good, and he WANTS to learn, you can start teaching different really easy tricks. Nothing difficult at first, just something that he can learn soon. So he will easily reach success.
    But back to shaping games. Use your fantasy. Put down a box on the ground, and click for anything related to the box. Just looking at it, or touching it with a paw or nose. Anything. I guess you get what I mean.:)

    Hope I helped something, have fun. :D
  3. fickla Experienced Member

    I agree with szeuscuani. But if you really want to try rollover right now just remember that it is hard for big dogs to do, it takes alot of momentum! I believe there's a lesson on it in the classroom, but you just need to break it up into small steps. Step 1 can be getting to dog to lie down with his hips to his side, then start getting him to bring his head towards his butt. You want to lure him so he is reaching back across his opposite hips. Eventually his front legs will start to lift because he his stretching so far, and then it's easy to just bring the treat back towards the front so he rolls over! The most common mistake is simply luring the treat around his head so he just swivels his head instead of rolling over.
  4. snooks Experienced Member

    shape it and chain

    i did this with my puppy using a clicker and had her rolling over that day. now she loves it and goes both ways. hopefully ur pup knows clicker, if not it takes very little to teach. i'll assume u do. if not tell me. teach each bit if behavior and click/treat often, make this fun. don't over lure or expect puppy to follow a lure too far, they will get bored with no pay off and lose interest.

    sit on a soft floor with traction like carpet with low distractions. sit facing puppy. u need a bag of small pea sized easily/quickly eaten treats puppy loves like diced chicken or cheese. don’t use crumbly treats that puppy will scramble to clean up or take a long time to chew. indoors will be easier.

    teach a down, from down move a treat from pup's nose slowly past his cheek toward the shoulder of the hip that is on top. most dogs have a preferred side to face up or roll onto. the head should follow treat to shoulder. click/treat work moving toward pup's backbone low and just skimming shoulder. he should roll partly onto his side. click/treat.

    keep the verbal praise low or silent since it may be so exciting he stands. the treat is the praise. once on side move a new treat from nose toward back of head. so if he's on his lefty side facing u move treat left to right in a straight line over his head very close so he won’t get up. as he follows over click treat. once he goes over another treat up and continue right so he has finish going over & stand to get up.

    i taught down, side, & stand first. I then used these commands as we worked clicking & treating each. then u can work on kneeling or standing in front of puppy. i use hand and voice cues but usually the hand cues are what dogs cue to listen too.

    after u have about 80% success u can put a word/hand cue to rollover. then u can work on the other way. the side u can use to help train dead's too fun. :dogrolleyes:
  5. hunniedoll New Member

    This hands down is the best forum EVER!!! Do regular pet stores sell clickers??? How the heck do ya even use one... yes, he is adopted.. he is very smart tho. He has picked up on basic tricks... but I didn't even think of his size being an issue with the whole rolling over thing. He thinks he is a big puppy and I guess I do too... But @ 62 lbs he is far from a pup. hehe
  6. Jean Cote Administrator

    Hi! Yes most pet stores sell them for $1 or $2. I recommend that you get the i-click though, as it's my personal best. Basically you teach your dog that every time that he hears the click, he receives a reinforcement (treat, toy or praise). And you can use the click to pinpoint the behavior that you like. There is a classroom lesson dedicated to clickers if you would like to know more and practice some exercises. ;)

    P.S. My husky is 60+ lbs and she can roll over. :)
  7. snooks Experienced Member

    some stores have clickers in bins by the check out and almost all online places have them. i like the i-click too but the cheap old box clicker is louder. if i'm training outside or ion class i need a louder clicker. strongly rec and for free u get a lot of how-to's and the karen pryor site sells great books.
  8. jeepdog New Member

    One thing I'd like to add is that rolling over is a submissive act. Grady would refuse to do any thing close to a submissive act for the first couple of months he was with us. We worked on getting him to lay on his side with me being over him. Then him on his side me over him and having my hands on him. I eventually could roll him over using his legs with out him fighting the movement. Then I started training to get him to roll over on command and he took to it quickly after that.

  9. hunniedoll New Member

    Thank you so much for all of your help. I bought a clicker today and Im going to check out the few sites and ideas recommended. I also hope to get a few pictures of Link up real soon!
  10. snooks Experienced Member

    have great fun.!!! once u go clicker it's hard to imagine not using one. :dogbiggrin: would love 2 see pics.
  11. hunniedoll New Member

    :doghappy: Bought the clicker today. Everytime I see him doing something positive I make sure to give em' a click. hehe I know that I have to make sure I click DURING the good deed... This form of training is just very vague to me, being my first dog and all. I am new to this new experience and any helpful advice is totally appreciated! Thank you so much.
  12. Jean Cote Administrator

    You always need to give a treat after every click.
  13. hunniedoll New Member

    Im clicking. I did a 10 minutes session with him today. Clicking, followed by a treat. He seemed to catch on to the clicking very quickly. Is it harder to train an older dog? He is only 1 1/2 but I have not had him since birth.
  14. Jean Cote Administrator

    It technically is because they have not learned the fundamentals that others have. But once your dog figures out the game (clicking = reinforcement for something I just did) then you'll find it much easier.
  15. hunniedoll New Member

    No kidding! He is already responding very, very well to the clicker. The only thing I am concerned about is that when I go to give him the treat, he tends to nip at me on accident. I did the exercise where you palm a treat, let him sniff and lick... and he didnt do anything negative. So while using the clicker, I practice his catching of the treating :) He will be a pro baller before I know it lol
  16. Jean Cote Administrator

    There is also a lesson called 'Accepting Treats' in the classroom which will help you with that. ;)
  17. snooks Experienced Member

    this sounds like a little excitement and a little rude so he just needs to learn no teeth just like sit. just close ur fist when offering, as soon as u feel tongue w/no teeth open hand wide, this big surface is harder to bite. u can also spit them at him or teach to catch tossed treats in air which is nice for distance work. i would also do separate work with taking treats appropriately independent of clicker training. u don't want to withhold treats after a click when he's just learning. click ALWAYS means treat.

    fist closed and open for licking, teeth take the hand away behind ur back. pup will realize that any teeth make a treat go away, licks get the treat. you can also offer a fisted treat and close hand quickly and say easy for teeth and open for licks. the other thing I do is teach a leave it. offer treat in open hand and say leave it, close hand quick if he goes to take it, try again. when he does leave it, or looks to you and turns away from the treat click and say get it. ur teaching patience and self control and not rewarding the snarky bite. u could also lower the value of the treat to him when training no biting. my dogs get snarky when they are excited so i stop and do some calming things like sits and look at me and offer fisted treats just to take it down a notch.
  18. hunniedoll New Member

    Thanks for all of your help!!!!

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