Dog Is In The "planning" Stages...purchased From Breeder...spring Litter

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself' started by RICHARD SZPIN, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. RICHARD SZPIN Member

    Hello mewzard,
    Thanks for your followup msg...it hits the mark well.
    When you have a moment to reply, can you tell me if such a harness which you write about is available for Scotties...and is such recommended for dogs that size. I am just now beginning to create a doggie manual of my own as preparation for my pup next spring...things like, what I need to buy, what I need to have set up for the pup, equipment, toys, service objects, etc. There are lots of things which I will need to get to be set up right but most of all I need to work on my patience. Being computer person has made me into a "too rushed, little patience" person and that is exactly the opposite of what a young puppy needs. I am crossing my fingers that the puppy will 'force' me to re-examine myself as a potentially patient, sensitive and observant person. Let's all cross our fingers...but the dog wont lack for love...tho that is just the STARTING POINT for training!
    Thanks again,
    Richard

  2. mewzard Experienced Member

    well, Oka has had 3 differnet harnesses (she is 17months old).
    <>
    The first one we got was a "Premier Easy walk harness". This worked quite well, we put her in at around 4 months. The only problem we had was that it didn't fit her body shape very well, she has a very deep rib cage but a ver flat front - we found it rubbed her armpits and i feel in the end she got too strong for it. with the poor fit and the size the harness just became ineffective as she hit 1 year.
    <>
    Harness #2 was a "Blackdog Balance harness", very similar design. Materials were much nicer and the double ended lead was great! We still had an issue with the fit even though it was more adjustable. She walked well in it, was easier to control. The 2 clip points made it much better for training (we still do a lots of recall training with her!). Only stopped using it as she chewed through the front when i was occupied for 20 seconds!! Many people on here use one, there is a thread about them here.
    <>
    So Onto Harness #3.. her current one, we've had it 2 days, It's called a Perfect Fit Harness (that links to one for Small Adult Scotties (hope i have the right dog!)). Not sure where in the world you are, but they are an English company, but post globaly. The harness is very well made, and i was really impressed. I like that you can buy different sizes pieces within each clip size to make a harness that really fits. Okas' doesn't move around on her chest when we walk, it doesn't slide forwards either. She seems calmer in it, which i find interesting. Don't think i'll be buying anything differnet from now on.
    <>
    I'll stop now!! LOL :LOL:. I found it very hard to wait for our dog. We waited just over a year for her - we were going crazy by the end!!
  3. Bosun Well-Known Member

    That is the Mother Ship you see hovering over you... welcome to the cult... lol. It's hard to not share things that dramatically change your thinking. Good for you for taking your info to the masses... It never hurts to try. Sometimes the information you are imparting makes it way to another person who really wants to hear it.
  4. sara Moderator

    I use the Black Dog Balance Harness with 2 of my dogs, one largish, one smallish (both Terriers). It works very well for Oliver and Scout. Oliver's in the Medium, Scout is in the small, and there's one size smaller. They're very adjustable. With my 2 Dachshunds, I use vest style Puppia harnesses, I think they're called Rite Fit, but they take pressure off the spine. doesn't help the pulling, if they should be so inclined, however they're much more comfortable in those than any other's I've tried.
  5. RICHARD SZPIN Member

    This is quite the forum...informative, interesting, entertaining...but more than that...very personable. You can tell these are dog owners...they almost all come panting with friendship and caring. It is gratifying to be a part of it and I hope I can emulate the warmth and sensitivity that others continuously show.
    I have started a notebook with ideas, suggestions, advice, tips that I have received, that have been triggered or suggested on here, and which I am getting from my various reads...Jan Fennell, The Dog Listener...Ian Dunbars...Dog Training(?) and so many more similar sources. The one on Utube with the trainer from California..Emily Something or other, sorry I cant remember, but she is a winner. Yet, which of the many sources are losers ? I havent found a thing that I would reject or that was negative. The biggest thing I have learned is to be kind, gentle, and positive with my new pup. I am not sure I can live up to it as it isnt my normal personality...but I am hoping that I will learn as much as I will teach. And at this moment, I am learning tons.
    Thank you each and everyone of you. I would send personal notes to each of you but I am not sure that is what you want when you make your suggestions. Hence, I say to all of you...THANKS...I appreciate it all and look forward to every new msg I receive.
    Richard
  6. sara Moderator

    The best training book I have ever read is "The Dog Vinci Code" by John Rogerson, the second best is Jean Donaldson's "The Culture Clash"... the other one that should be read is "Reaching the Animal Mind" by Karen Pryor, which is a clicker training book... If you're looking for books to read :)
  7. sara Moderator

    oh and btw, I like you! You make us feel like stars!:p I think we'll keep you ;)
    mewzard likes this.
  8. RICHARD SZPIN Member

    Ha ha ha...thanks Sara...all of you make it fun to open my gmail msgs that are labelled with this forum.
    I do have a question relating to the books you suggested, though I might get the Dog Vinci Code just because of the title...lol...just kidding. But the serious question...I have read and seen some of that "clicker" training and I hesitate to go that route. I dont like any kind of training that requires one to carry anything which one could forget to bring along at some future point. Also, a question to those who have done clicker training...doesnt the dog simply learn to respond to the clicker and likely just ignores anything else that follows...mind you, that might not make sense as it doesnt know what is being commanded until it hears the command. So the idea of the clicker might be that the clicker alerts the dog that a command is about to be given. So it learns how to respond to the particular command...sit, it sits, come, it comes, etc. Eventually, it is trained to respond to the command and do what the command requests, regardless of the clicker being sounded. I invite your response or a response from anyone with clicker training experience.
    Remember I am speaking from a non-experience position. To me it seems, I may be training the dog to respond to a "CLICKER, COMMAND GIVEN" stimulus, when I want the dog to learn to respond to just the COMMAND GIVEN. I have a feeling I am overdoing all this preparation...can one be over prepared ? But I like that I am learning lots and feel better equipped to take on the challenge of a new puppy.
    Thanks again,
    Richard :confused:
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  9. mewzard Experienced Member

    Click = "good dog" it's just a consistent sound that says that the dog did something right. You give a treat as a reward/ motivator. Eventually you can phase the treats out as the dog will know you are "good for it down the line"... E.g he will great good stuff from you for listening ... Games, belly rubs, off lead time. I dont treat Oka every time I ask her to 'sit' or 'down' but I do when I'm teaching her something new.
    You don't need to use anything special, many people use the dogs dinner to train commands.
    You teach the dog click=treat(or toy time), then you click as the dog is doing the action (eg sit is click when pups bum touches the floor). You treat quickly after the click. You label the action when pup consistently then slowly pip will learn "sit" means bum hits floor = treat.... Later phasing the treat out. Check out the Classroom section signpost at the top of the page.
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  10. mewzard Experienced Member

    I'm just realising that the above doesn't totally make sense. The chain would go: CLICK+Treat -> cue word for a while then: Cue word -> treat eventually just the cue word.
    We just use a clicker to "mark" the correct action more consistantly.
    Ah! found a vid that kind of shows what i mean better (made this for someone who wanted to know about teaching names/eye contact). I'm saying her name kind of quick here but you can hear the click, everytime you see her look up at me i click which says to her the equivilant of "YES!!" then she gets treated...this is more like stage 2 as she knows that her name is Oka so i say -> she looks -> she gets treats. (ignore her grabbing her nose, thats her trying different tricks to get more treats!)
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  11. Bosun Well-Known Member

    The key to any training is consistency. When we use our voice, we alter pitch, tone, speed, volume and even the words. Good Boy! Atta Boy! Yes! Good. etc. The clicker delivers a consistent noise that "marks" the exact time your pup is doing something you want to reinforce. You can deliver the "click" faster than you can say Good Puppy.

    Because it's such a reliant sound, the dog learns more quickly. It was likened to taking a mental picture for the dog. Like the noise a Polaroid makes. That is the "picture" you want to see again.

    As already pointed out, there is not need beyond the initial training of a behaviour to carry a clicker. The click noise is a marker only. It's associated with positive behaviors that you want to see again. You phase out the clicker and transition to verbal praise or hands on or treats.... your choice. The clicker is just a method to bridge the communication gap between human and animal.

    I say "Look out Puppy! Your Papa's gonna have it all over you!" I think it's terrific that your getting comfortable with all this now! Good for you! After working in rescue for years, it gives me faith in human beings to see someone putting so much preparation into bringing a dog home.Now that you've chosen a training method (hats off to your choice by the way ;) the possibilities are endless.

    You know you can teach your dog to ring a bell attached to the door handle to tell you when they want to go out... right?
    tigerlily46514 and mewzard like this.
  12. sara Moderator

    I taught Oliver to do this... then removed the bells as he decided he wanted to go out everytime he was bored (like every 10 seconds when he was a pup LOL)!

    I gave the bells to my sis, who taught her Westie to use them... works great for them LOL
    tigerlily46514, Bosun and mewzard like this.
  13. mewzard Experienced Member

    Oka did this too - we taught her to ring the keys that hung in the lock of the back door. She would ring them constantly. :rolleyes:
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  14. RICHARD SZPIN Member

    In a way I am envious of you people who can write what you dog can do...is capable of doing. My dog is not even in the conception stage YET. But I can see that once my puppy arrives, I will also be jockeying for a position in here displaying and/or raving about what JOCKO can do...that's tentative name...geez...it's like waiting for a baby...first we start hunting for names, then we get the house/room prepared...what colour should I paint the walls...mud brown??? And wife still isnt fully on board but I am betting the puppy will win her over with its warmth, playfulness and wet nose...still...one shake of its rain wet body in the laundry room and my wife will cringe with negative feelings about cleanliness going out the window.
    Appreciate all the feedback I am getting...you people are great...what is the dog lover word that is comparable to but opposite of a chauvinist...caninist ?? Barkist?? Bowwowist? Well you people are that...but keep it up...as for the book suggestions, well, I am on the prowl for these books now and am building my library of dog books...TWO READ and two more to go...the DOG VINCI CODE intrigues for its name also, and I have to get the clicker training book cuz I still think it will take some time to train me into its proper use. OKA the German shepherd sure looks calm about it...like "Click...oh man...here it comes...give it up with the clicking and just give me the darn treat!" Isnt that what the pawing meant? I guess I better start learning dog language !!
    R
  15. mewzard Experienced Member

    Body Language
    The pawing the nose is a trick -> "Oka, where's your nose?" - she bops her nose - cute,no?:giggle:
    She couldn't believe that we were doing simple name recognititon and was trying another trick to see if that was what i really wanted. Kind of common with clicker trained dogs as they are so eager to 'work'.
    Thats kind of the point too -she knows that the click means she'll get a reward (food/toys). *click* wheres the reward?!
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  16. Amateur Experienced Member

    Just remember, each dog is different, and what works for teaching/dealing with one dog may not work for another. My two are VERY different in personality and learning. I have found you may even have to combine methods and adapt them to your dog in order for things to work.
    One dog instantly caught on to the clicker, the other looked up at me and said " Duh ? "
    Either way its rewarding to see them happily "working" for a living in whatever capacity.
    Good luck with the new pup.
  17. sara Moderator

    This is a great video for seeing how clicker training works. The last 5 minutes are a free-shaping session with Oliver. Free-shaping is when you dont really have a trick or idea in mind, you just see what the dog offers on it's own and work from there. This video I have a box and Oliver starts by touching the box with his nose, so I clicked that, and within 5 minutes Oliver had learned to "tip it" we'd never done anything like that before, so it was completely new, but it totally came from him.

    My dogs have alot of tricks that they've thought up themselves, I really enjoy free-shaping, and watching a dogs brain at work! Even Mouse (my little dim wit) has become adept at free shaping, and learned to pray in her last session... she offered the behaviour on her own!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S69KCSk7piM
  18. RICHARD SZPIN Member

    Hey Sara,
    That CLICKER demonstration was EXCELLENT. Convinces me that clicker is very, very useful tool in training a dog. At first, I thought the dog was training the owner by doing something to see if a CLICK and reward would result. Then, with more watching, it became very obvious that the dog was responding to the CLICK and the COMMAND. The videos are excellent for teaching owners how to do things. I am thoroughly convinced never to use NEGATIVE PUNISHMENT/REINFORCEMENT...but strictly POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT. The closest to negative is to say OUCH when mouthing has become to rough but to immediately offer something positive.
    Man, the INTERNET sure is a great tool for helping people to learn how to do things.
    Again, I thank all of you that have posted something here which I always find to be valuable and add to my notebook about puppy training.
    THANKS a lot !!
    Richard :)
  19. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Great video, Sara, you and your dog are amazing!:)

    yes, Richard,
    have you yet looked at CLASSROOM? <---there,
    you can also see our admin, Jean, clicker-training as well. Super-easy to understand tutorials on dog training, those reeeally helped me a lot. The "Classroom" videos are short, often with lil signs in between the videos, explaining what he is doing. It's so much easier to understand what we are talking about,
    if you SEE it in action.
    A click, is just a simpler way of saying "YES! THAT'S IT!" is all it is.

    .
    YOu will do fine, i'm sure of it. :D Clickers reeally help the dog 'get' the trick faster,
    the click tells the dog, "YES! THAT is what i wanted!"
    Clickers (of a sort) are how they train the killer whales at SeaWorld, too.
    .
    almost all dogs learn "click = YES! AND TREAT!" almost instantly. It is sooooooooo easy to teach a dog that.
    .
    I can't leave my clickers lying about in the house,
    as visitors always end up messing with them, which confuses my dog, "Ey, i heard a click, where is my treat?"O_o
    ha ha.
    it's THAT powerful to the dog--- that click!!
    .
    btw, earlier you mentioned a concern about a dog shaking off after a rain, and your wife might be unhappy about dirt in the house. My house is clean, and i have a dog.
    above, you can see Sara's silver colored carpet in the video looks very clean, and SHE has FIVE dogs.
    so even homes with multiple dogs can be nice and clean, NOT TO WORRY!!:D
    .
    If it's been raining while i walk the dog,
    i stand outside of the door for a moment, and if Buddy IS really soaked, then Buddy shakes off outside,
    then
    we enter....... if his paws are wet, keep your dog on leash,
    and wipe off his feet.
    {Me, i say "bang" and my dog then puts all 4 feet up in the air for me.}
    .
    we keep towels by every door in our house in case that is the door we come in. It's not that hard to keep a home clean, even if you have a dog. You will be fine!:D
  20. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    //"At first, I thought the dog was training the owner by doing something to see if a CLICK and reward would result"//
    .
    that can be done, too! ---when the dog offers various behaviors,
    if you see one that you like,
    you click and treat.
    and thus,
    a new trick is born.
    .
    i did that with my dog for licking his face. NOw he can do that on-cue.
    .
    I did that with my dog howling, now he can do that on-cue.
    .
    there are many ways to use a clicker. Almost ANY dog behavior you see that you like, and wish the dog to be able to on-cue, you can "click it" and make THAT into a trick. Dogs DO think up great 'tricks' sometimes!:ROFLMAO:
    .
    and Richard, don't forget, with a baby dog,
    you'll have to keep lessons really short at first, even mere minutes can be long enough for a baby dog's att'n span.

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