Dog food

Discussion in 'Dog Products' started by greatpyreneesmum, Nov 6, 2008.

  1. greatpyreneesmum New Member

    Has anyone here heard of Joy dog food? We will pick up our new pup this weekend and asked the breeder what food the pups were eating. She told us "Joy dog food, but it's pretty hard to find." I was wondering if anyone has even seen it before? What about the nutrition value for a Great Pyr? Thanks to all!!


  2. Jean Cote Administrator

    I've never seen or heard of that particular dog food. You could probably contact them to see if a local supplier carries it.
  3. greatpyreneesmum New Member


    Thanks Jean,

    I took another look at the website and found the nutrition facts and have decided to change my new pups diet. The first ingredient listed is corn. Why do dog food manufactures insist on offering ingredients that dogs can not digest:dogmad: (I know $$$$). But it just kills me that they call it well balanced and healthy. It just makes your dog a profitable (to the manufacturer) poop machine. Not my baby!!!

    Thanks again,
  4. Jean Cote Administrator

    Hi Denise,

    If you are planning on changing the puppy's food, you should do it incrementally, start by mixing 1/4 of the new food with his old food and over the course of two weeks gradually increase the amount of the new food until you stop using the old one. This will avoid upset stomachs, loose stools and diarrhea. ;)
  5. greatpyreneesmum New Member

    The breeder is giving us enough food so that we can do as you said. I believe that the change in people and surroundings are going to be traumatic enough and I kinda expect some tummy trouble. I would hate to exacerbate it by changing food too suddenly.

    Thank you for your advise!!!!!!!:dogbiggrin:

  6. Jean Cote Administrator

    You are very welcome, I'm sure others will join in to this conversation once they see it. ;)
  7. snooks Experienced Member

    Oy another corn food. I agree how great that some dog food companies like to make $$ by shortening dog's lives. Good for you for researching it. An incremental switch is perfect.

    The one that really gets me is science diet. Here the vet is giving it to people and they trust it is a good food. It too is mostly corn and many times Hills supplies it to the vet a low cost as an additional incentive. I can't tell you how many times I had a vet suggest it for anything from upset tummy to a UTI. I took one look at the label and said OH NO not my dog. A few sites i like with lots of food info.

    Have fun with that little cute puffball!
  8. bellapup Well-Known Member

    I changed Bella's food for that reason...but I've heard that the new fad is heavy on protein. Some use venison, bison, etc. I've always thought this was frou frou food for people who didn't have anything better to spend money on. But on the other hand, I never thought I should be feeding her food with corn, wheat, carrots, etc. It just seems against the nature of the animal to feed them like humans. I guess I should do more research. I want what's best for her, not what's the hottest trend.
  9. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    Just so you know, (my apologies if I misunderstood), you shouldn't be feeding food that includes corn, wheat, etc. Dogs cannot digest corn. Ideally a grain-free food that is all natural and contains human grade meats is best, but certain grains are not unbelievably terrible for your dog. They are simply fillers and don't have much to offer.

    Venison and bison are not necessarily bad things, neither is high protein; it all just depends on the dog. Over about 39% protein may be borderline unhealthy for anything but a serious working dog. For instance, Blue Buffalo's Wilderness variety has 42% protein and quite a bit of fat as well. I would only recommend this for a steadily working Border Collie, an active police dog, or any other regularly working dog who can easily utilize this much protein. A dog that gets jogged every day would not need this much protein, and it could actually be dangerous for the dog to get high amounts of protein. It really just depends on the dog and what he does. Many other foods have even higher protein content, and are typically best for, as stated above, serious working dogs. A common misconception is that a dog that gets a lot of physical exercise(long daily jogs) needs more protein. True, the dog will need more protein than the average couch dog, but can't even compare to that of a working police dog. Actual working dogs are expected to perform tasks that are extremely physically demanding; nothing like a piddly little 5-mile jog.

    Therefore, high protein content is great--for some dogs.
  10. snooks Experienced Member

    interesting ongoing research on protein and dog diet. puppy's not included as their protein requirements are very specific.

    dr nicolas dodman's new book also has some info on it that's interesting. all the testing is not complete as he points out. there is something to it but it's not thoroughly tested enough to be completely definitive.

    for a puppy stay in the AAFCO guidelines.
  11. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Okay, i'm new, just learning about the raw diet, and beginning to slowly give my new dog some tiny amts of raw meat into his dog food, so far, we've only tried beef. Buddy did great, loved it. Next week we'll try a lil raw chicken.... I plan to use dog food (still studying up which one is best that we can afford and can get in our town) and use part raw on top...SO FAR, this is our plan at this time...might change though...still studying this all up...

    So if over 39% is unhealthy unless it is a serious working dog (mine is not), would a RAW diet be over 39% protein?
    Geez, i am derailing the thread...:msnblushing: SORRY! But everyone here is soOO smart and helpful, and i was just wondering about that "over 39% protein is not healthy unless it is a serious working dog"...SURE makes sense, but i wonder if raw wouldn't be over 39% protein...?
  12. snooks Experienced Member

    Go back a bit to my previous post on this thread. I listed several resources including whole dog journal, and dogaware which are excellent. The best standard you can follow is the AAFCO association of american feed control officials, sort of like animal version of FDA. See for their recommendations on percentages of nutrients. If the food does not have these items in it you'll need to supplement or include items that meet those requirements.

    Don't embark on a homemade or raw diet without doing some reading on your own first. I'm still feeling a little inexperienced after over a year, not to discourage you but you'll need to balance nutrients for your dog not just add raw meat to their diet. Then you must decide do you want to do all raw/no cooked carcasses and parts no carbs, raw but use dairy and veges, raw and cooked combo, or raw and kibble.

    The biggies are proton, calcium, and phosphorous, and fat; then there are vitamins, trace nutrients, omega fatty acids. In the wake of all the dog food contamination scares I saw recipes for raw "safe" diets that had no source of calcium or phosphorous and no added fiber, or material that provides vitamins and nutrients.

    You'll also not find much more of a hotly contested issue in the dog world. As people become more picky, vegan, green, obese they start obsessing about what their dogs SHOULD eat and get pretty crazy on some of the forums I've seen fighting and getting mean about food when I'd rather see them get angry about someone hitting their dog for example.

    Don't ask your vet unless that vet is a canine nutritionist, most are not and most sell and recommend Science diet which is a horrible food in my opinion (mostly corn/sugar). Most vets HATE raw diet and home diets because they believe most people are too uneducated to balance the diet correctly even though they also can't. Honestly most people don't do the research either so the vets are right to be concerned. They'll also lecture on bacteria etc even though you haven't killed yourself yet handling raw meat that you cook for yourself. And not to slam the vet but that really isn't their specialty so you can't expect them to know everything. Ideally you would have a holistic vet and consult with a canine nutritionist but I know that this isn't going to work for everyone.

    There are a number of excellent books by different philosophied experts and you need to decide what you are willing to do prep-wise and pay for. I argue that you can raw feed a dog for about the same price as a good quality kibble. I also feel strongly that the less processing/cooking the less you alter the natural nutrients in the food and the more likely that they are in a form that makes them usable by the dog's body. The same principle if you cook your broccoli to mush that you've crushed the fiber and so broken down the nutrients that you can eat it and get little from it other than full.

    Kibble is the most processed by its very nature because it must be ground and material added to it to get it to stick together in pieces and cooked. Canned is less processed because no additives are needed to get it to kibble and often it contains whole pieces of vegetable matter and meat. Least processed is raw with home "cooked" defined as how much of it you cook and how long.

    The supplements you'll need to add to a totally homemade or raw diet can be expensive but if you look at the entire package you can make a better evaluation. Also consider that a kibble food may have 26% protein but part of it may be vegetable protein or altered enough by processing that the net effective protein digestible by the dog may only be 10%. So depending on what you decide you can ask for more help or go back to those sites I listed in this and the previous post. I like several kibble foods and several canned. I also am a big believer in green unbleached tripe which is a superb source of natural probiotics (the good bacteria your dog needs for digestive health).

    Check out the links too for the dog food project that is very good on explaining ingredients and labels on commercial dog food. Dog food labels have been downright misleading IMHO because they could be and get away with it. Most commercial foods would not disclose where they got their ingredients and how much of what they listed was actually in a large enough percentage to even be detectable. Until the last few years there was no requirement for a customer decipherable best by date.!!

    I'll give you some suggested reading and surely some other folks will chime in. This is my opinion based on help from other people I know and my puppy's breeder. She is a PhD and very active in the dog world and dog research on nutrition and breeding away genetic defects. So I think she's pretty smart and her dogs are obviously very long lived and healthy and winning titles all over the place. This is not the only opinion out there-so intended to just get your feet wet and let you run. Hopefully not scare you but help you understand there are things that need to be added other than what you might find in a normal family pantry.

    Your source of calcium and phosphorous for healthy bone and the calcium/phosphorous ratio are very important. Some people add ground bone, give whole raw bone, dairy calcium, egg shells, and the list could go on forever. I prefer feeding one protein source which is grass fed and pasture grazed given no antibiotics or growth hormone and US raised. Learn the terms like free range, which is meaningless and doesn't mean the animal ever went outside. Many people prefer to find local farmers or co-op clubs and buy meat local or order and ship it frozen. The reason for one protein source is that if an allergy occurs you can go to another protein. Exposing a dog throughout its life to a lot of sources, many people argue can create sensitivities as it can in humans to more foods.

    I said grass fed above too because grass fed animals have meat richer in omega 3,6,9 fatty acids needed for cardiovascular health (just like humans take for lowering cholesterol, artery blockage, healthy heart). Grain fed animals are not as rich in FA's and are more likely to be lot fed, more crowded, and therefore need antibiotics to keep a large crowded population healthy and growth hormones to supplement the lack of good grass nutrients.

    For example I am mildly lactose intolerant now, my doctor suggests that even though I don't have a severe problem avoid dairy because I can develop worse issues. So you see where the human dog diet emotional issue comes into play here.

    The whole dog journal has interviewed and compiled a list of AAFCO acceptable dry, canned, grain free, and raw foods. Where they could they got country of origin of ingredients and listed the amount of ash (trash) that was included in the foods and where foods had excess of some ingredients that might be bad. you can subscribe to the monthly and it's well worth the cost and then can purchase back articles like the 2008 best dry foods for $7.50 for members or $10 for non-members or if you subscribe you get it all as it is published.

    Although this all seems like a lot-once you get it down just like any diet or life style it becomes second nature and you can ad lib and change things up and should do so. A diet that you control and isn't full of preservatives, contaminants, junk, by products, and undigestible crap has got to be healthier. Particularly look at the bad ingredient list at

    References: I tried to give a wide spectrum -- with help from friend's reading suggested list and much advice over a long period

    Note that each meal need not be totally balanced with raw. The balance can be completed over 2-3 days or a few meals as long as the needed nutrients for that amount of time are met fairly quickly and over those few meals/days. The idea being that the body doesn't sense a deficit right away, you do need to meet the need before the body responds to a lack of any nutrient.

    Raw specific
    Kymthy Schultz Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats
    Dr Tom Lonsdale DVM newest Work Wonders Feed your Dog Raw Meaty Bones (not sure I like his concept but I’m no expert)
    Susan K Johnson Switching to Raw
    Chris & Beth McDonald Raw Food, Make it easy for you and your Dog
    Dr Billinghurst Eat Drink and Wag your Tail Improving your Dog's Life through Nutrition

    Raw Friendly & home made
    Dr Wysong the Truth about Dog Foods
    Dr Marty Goldstein
    Monica Segal books and Pamphlets
    Steve Brown & Beth Taylor See Spot Live Longer
    Dr Strombeck DVM

    More emphasis on grains than others
    Wendy Volhard & Kerry Brown DVM The Holistic Guide for a healthy Dog

    More General INFO
    Liz Palika The Consumer's Guide to Dog Food
    Ann Martin Foods Pets Die For
  13. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    OH Snooks, i just love your posts! You are so informative! You are right, a raw diet sure DOES require a lot of education!! I am still studying it all up!! I am very interested in pursuing this, at least by half or 1/3. Honestly, i haven't even been able to settle on a dog food yet!! The more i study that up, the more confused i get!!! Some sites give contradictory info than the other sites...hmm.

    My goal is to give Buddy a good dog food, that we CAN afford, and CAN get in our town, and top it off with a lil raw on top. So far, that is our goal....

    Right now, though, i am back to plain dog food, Buddy is being treated for 3 kinds of worms, :msnsick: round worm, tapeworm, and whipworms. :dogblink: He had zero symptoms, no diarrhea, no weight loss, great appetite, (he is gaining a pound a week! which we are gonna have to level off soon!! Yikes! I think it is his dog treats...i am gonna study up making my own dog treats)
    One kind of worm he has could be from raw meat. NOw i've forgotten which one that was....but I think Buddy already had worms when we got him, the dog pound SAID he'd been de-wormed...but maybe they DID give him medicine, but the worms grew back again....?

    So for now, til we complete all his worm treatments, he is just on plain dog food. Plus, now, we are worried if WE got worms too, :msnsick: we have no symptoms, but over time, we did get a little lax about good handwashing before we eat...eeeeeee. :msnrolleyes: At first, we sure did wash our hands after playing with Buddy, but we got lax...eeeee.

    So now i am studying up worms. :msntongue:Weirdly, online it says you gotta repeat the medicines in 2 weeks, but our vet said no, :msniwonder:but that seems strange. The eggs in him will be worms in 2 weeks, guess i better ask the vet again about that!!

    Oh, Snooks, you are right about vets not being much for 'raw' diets, humans docs can sometimes be just like that, too, about other things, EVERYONE gets put on a prescription!!:msnsad: My best friend, her dog was dying, wouldn't eat, was losing ground fast, and she put him on raw, read a book on it first, and her dog did rally, start eating again, acting liveley again, put on some badly needed weight, and it gave her some quality time with her beloved Abbey before she passed on. Her vet had a fit though.

    We put an Omega3 capsule, opened and squirted onto Buddy's food, for his coat. We been putting cannola oil, a lil dab, as well, for less shedding, it DOES work. But in studying up the links you've posted, i see cannola oil is seen as a less than optimal source of fat for dogs...wonder what is a good oil for dogs? I swear, if you put cannola oil, just a dab, they shed way way less....our old BC, we could TELL if he missed even a day, BAM!! hair everywhere!!!!
  14. snooks Experienced Member

    Sorry to hear about the fun. I still would take a fecal sample in maybe twice more in the next few months and be sure it's clear after the treatment. Sometimes they miss the worms or the dog isn't shedding them.

    The best oils for dogs are wild salmon, sardine, or flax. I have heard of flax causing diarrhea though. My puppy hates hates salmon oil though my other dog loves it so putting it on puppy's food wastes a whole bowl. What most raw feeders do is alternate between sardine and salmon with flax if the dog tolerates it. The omega fatty acids are denser in deep cold water fish oils like salmon and sardine. Be sure to get wild caught so that you don't get the farm raised huge amounts of growth hormones or antibiotics. Also never feed a dog raw salmon-there is a bacteria/disease they can get from it...I’ve forgotten what it's called.

    If you were raw feeding though you could dump a can of cooked salmon in the bowl bones and all and that might be a great meal with a little calcium. Then of course you'd have to balance out the rest of the nutrients needed over the next few meals. Lots of raw feeders use raw eggs shell and all and ground bone. What you must calculate is the % by weight in dry matter (after you take out the amount of moisture in the food) that comes from calcium. This means you'll need to understand how to calculate it and measure it. The same for protein etc. The AAFCO dog site explains how to calculate dry matter nutrients. I gave you the link previously.

    What works best is to find someone with credentials in your reading research and look at their recipes and use them as guides. You then might consult with a holistic vet and/or a canine nutritionist. I post on another site where many of the people have literally had huge turn arounds using diet on dogs with cancer and terminal illnesses. It can make a huge difference.

    The kibbles I like and have seen recommended by raw feeders and combo feeders are Innova, EVO, Wellness, Orijen, Canidae, Flint Rock River, Ziwi Peak

    Whole dog journal just did a 2008 best kibbles and grain free. I personally don't think dogs need or use grain in their food but as long as it is a low glycemic grain (corn, white rice, white potato, tapioca all bad), not a majority of calories, and fed with protein and fat to slow it's digestion you won't get a blood sugar spike. It's a similar principle to why human diabetics can't eat a lot of "starches" or high glycemic carbs and why if they eat some they must include protein and healthy non-sat fats to slow the digestion down and give a nice slow blood sugar rise and fall. Not a spike then crash. Since dogs weigh much less than humans a blood sugar spike crash is more dangerous and can cause organ damage quickly.

    My parents are both diabetic so I'm very conscious of this. Dogs are very similar to people in many ways. Once you get diabetic or insulin resistant (pre-diabetic) you will die of some diabetes complication earlier than you otherwise would have. Sad but true. So I really watch the carbs and sugars and if my dogs don't need it to thrive I see no point in giving them carbs. Rice, particularly brown rice (which is good carbs for people) is very hard for dogs to digest. So sweet potatoes would be something I prefer to add because they have fiber, help the poop stay solid, and are sweet so dogs like them.

    Keep your dog lean, not skinny but lean. Research shows lean dogs are healthier and live longer. I also add probiotics that I buy on line rec by my breeder. I like Animal Essentials plant enzymes, Geneflora, and I like Probalance Canine to add those nutrients, amino acids, vitamins, and nutrients. These supplements are listed on the AAFCO page.

    Right now I am feeding Wellness kibble to my older dog b/c puppy hates it, puppy eats Canidae. I add home cooked and other stuff to it. I had a horrible diarrhea problem with both dogs for several months and the vets insisted I stop feeding raw because that was the reason. It wasn't that's when I discovered all the vets here hated raw feeding. It was caused by the tap water which was new to both dogs when we moved. So long story short we are transitioning back to raw. Puppy was raw weaned and I had begun adding raw to my older dog’s diet when we moved.

    To their kibble I add sweet potato, green tripe, and use a lot of canned food since it is less processed. The green tripe does come canned though frozen is less processed if you can find it at pet stores. It does stink but the dogs are mesmerized by it. I'll slowly go back to adding raw meats and will probably buy a frozen product since it's so easy. Since kibbles are high in calcium wait to add calcium sources until you stop feeding it. Then you can start adding in yogurt, cottage cheese, ground bone or whatever you decide to use.

    There’s nothing wrong with a good quality kibble or canned food while you are researching. I do sympathize. It’s a jungle, made even worse by the lack of laws for dog food labels. Human food labels are still skirting the edge of honesty. :dogblink: I'm glad this is helpful.
  15. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Well, again i learn a lot from you. ONe thing i was surprised is you think corn is okay, and brown rice is not easily digested by dogs... I'm still just learning but some of the sites you sent me say just the opposite of that. ?
  16. snooks Experienced Member

    Oops sorry if I wasn't clear. My little parentheses were a little confusing. I said corn white rice, white potato, and tapioca are all bad. It looks like I just meant the tapioca. Corn is probably the worst thing I think the commercial food makers put in their dog food.
  17. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Ah, ya know, now that i RE-read it a lil slower, i understand better, even that first time, you DID say corn is not great after all!! I have heard that Innova is great, they don't sell it in my's $20 for a 16.5 bag (i think). I guess i could drive a bit!! It's not like i have to buy it every week!! It's kinda heavy to pay shipping on..i'd think.

    That Candidae, most sites like that Candidae, and one site had something bad to say, now my brain is fried and i'd hafta look to see what it was..? but that Candidae IS real popular too, but it is $25 for 15 lbs. Guess i can get a bag or two here or there. EVO is like 42% protein, and Buddy is not a working dog, (but the more 'at home' he becomes, the more i wonder if he was/should be!!)....but, like you said, not all the protein is digestible i guess...

    wow, i hadn't thought about the sugar/carb cycle...good point!!

    LUCKILY Buddy seems to tolerate switching up his food!! I do it slowly, But Craig sometimes just swaps it out all at once by accident and nothing happens, also, Luckily, BUDDY EATS ANYTHING!!:dogtongue2: Not fussy at all, again, though, i do think Buddy MIGHT have been living on squirrels before i got him!! Weirdly, Buddy may eat poop?:dogtongue:

    I've heard some dogs do this. :msnrolleyes: When we walk in the woods, i am now letting him go offleash, cautiously, (but not when deers are about, like early morning or twilight...)his recalll is only about 80% if something goes by, so i gotta quit doing this...but i'm training him for recall....i can only report moderate success IF there is a distraction. Guess i oughta train him with some kinda distraction IN MY YARD first...yeah, that is what i'll do. No distraction, he is 100%. Okay, 95%...

    and twice i've caught him eating something off the woodland floor, :msneek:i ran as fast as i could to stop him...THIS is probably how he got worms in the first place..:dogtongue:.a starving dog does eat poop sometimes...and buddy was pretty boney when we got him...who knows what his story is...
    This particular spot Buddy ate something on the ground is a sort of a dog-poop area..eeeough. So it probably WAS poop....eeough!

    It is about 10 degrees here now, BEFORE the windchill --and Buddy will NOT poop in OUR yard, ever!
    There's a good side,(clean yard, extra walks for everyone) and a bad side (inconvenient at times, pouring rain, freezing winds, etc) to this....(Pee, yeah, but no poop.) cute enuff, Buddy won't even pee in the yard either, unless we go with him!! :msngiggle: Buddy (so far), will NOT leave the deck til we get our boots on and get out there too!! If i throw a toy out in the yard, he will go sit by the toy, or retrieve the toy, and keep waiting for us til he pees on some tree!!? :dogbiggrin:

    So we walk to the other side of our block to the woods half of our block, (but so do some other dog-walkers..). It's a wee bit cold in the mornings and nighttimes to be walking over the other, great big woods, and the streets are all ICEY as heck. I walk in the snow, so i won't slip, but Buddy walks on the icey street. Bet we look weird, ha ha!!:msngiggle: Like a dog walking his person!!

    Buddy shows no interest in his own poop, but i think we'll always have to watch him for eating OTHER dog's or deer's poop......Maybe once he ever realizes he is gonna be fed EVERY DAY and is all up on his nutrients, he might not do that anymore..? hopefully.
    Ha, i might have to actually train him to never eat that,:dognowink: now that i think about it, so we are safe to walk in the woods. :doghuh: Yeah, i'll take him next to some, and train him no!!...or treat him for ignoring it..or something...

    I hope i don't get kicked off the board for derailing threads!!:msnblushing:

    I will check out those oils, THANKS SO MUCH!! Hey, when we cut fat off our meat, is that a good fat for dogs? I guess only a little bit, so he won't get fat. Wonder if fat helps with shedding like cannola did..
  18. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    Actually "leave it" is the one of the most useful commands you could ever teach, and you you can use it on virtually anything. As for oils, not sure what EVOO does for shedding, but it is great for the skin and coat. My dogs tend to get really dry skin and a lot of dandruff, so I add EVOO to their food daily and this has knocked out the dry skin and dandruff really well.

    I would definitely be extremely careful about what he gets into and teach leave it ASAP. If he was a starved stray or whatever, his scrounging habits can put him on the surgery table with serious digestive problems. As Snooks mentioned earlier, grains don't really have nutritional value for dogs. The foods she listed are grain-free foods. If you end up feeding a higher protein food, this doesn't mean your dog is going to DIE. It simply means it'd be best to up your pup's exercise or increase the intensity of the exercise he is currently getting. And like Snooks mentioned, not all of it is digestible protein.

    Personally I prefer a combination of raw/homemade and kibble. Just a personal preference. Sounds unhealthy, but the key is to keep it consistent. I just use it to top off the kibble. If you're considering a homemade diet you should really be strict and careful with the ingredients. Do some research and(if your vet is a fan of homemade diets) ask your vet for his/her recommendations for your dog.

    What are you currently feeding him?

    Also, it would be a good idea to invest in a 20-50 ft leash. This way, he can still have a lot of freedom in the woods with you, but you can still keep him from dashing off in pursuit of a squirrel. :)
  19. snooks Experienced Member

    That fat you cut from your food is not good fat. It is saturated fat, most meat and fat from animal matter is saturated fat including dairy. See for an explanation of fats considered good and bad fats.

    If you pick up a item of food at the store look at the label it will have the amount of sat fat or saturated fat, hydrogenated fat which is a chemical process things like margarine go through to make them solid at room temperature and less healthy. Trans-fat will also be listed and is one of the worst. It started as a process to cheaply make fat that would be solid at room temp and then fry food for fast food. It wasn't until all the people eating fast food after that fat hit the scene started dying that the FDA realized how bad trans-fat was.

    Polyunsaturated fats and monounsaturated fats are the good fats found in nuts, fish, plant oils (like canola) etc. Dogs should have fat levels around 15% (which is less than humans) to be healthy and grow healthy. Those fats ideally should be from fish and nuts or the omega fatty acids not the canola or other oils that humans eat. It would be much healthier for humans not to eat canola oil too actually. If you stuck to Omegas and those unsaturated fats found in fish and nuts you'd have much less arterial blockage as you aged.

    I haven't ever heard of an oil helping with shedding. Their hair falls out for the same reason ours does. It grows for a while then it falls out depending on the individual hair growth cycle. Then it regrows. Dogs are more seasonal than humans are so they have much of their hair set to the same clock and shed 1-2 times a year with hormones playing a part. What you may be seeing is that the oils make the dog and coat healthier and less hair breaks or is dried and brittle in cold or dry weather. The result is a glossy coat and less hair on the floor. I gave our foster fish oil in addition to our better kibble. She was so dry and her hair was like steel wool when I got her. When she left she had a ruby luster that shone in the sun and she felt so soft.

    So I would not feed fat scraps from my human food to the dog but I would include the salmon, sardine, and flax oil in correct amounts and if feeding raw eggs leave in the yolks and feed whole dairy unless fat from other foods made the fat content too high. In fact I don't red meat but stick mostly with wild caught salmon and chicken sometimes. I do give my dogs lean red meat because it is good for them. No fatty stuff which can actually cause pancreatitis and can be fatal. Rotisserie chicken or roast drippings can kill a dog if ingested all at once because their systems are not designed to take it.

    that's partly why like Jean I feed a mix of really good quality kibble and add raw or homemade ingredients as I learn. it's not a bad idea really.

    I know what you're saying about the cost per bag but consider that a poor quality protein source will not be digested by your dog and you'll need to feed more to maintain weight and health. Much of that money he'll be pooping right back out unchanged on the ground. typically a good quality food is denser in nutrients and you need to feed less because the nutrients are bioavailable to the dog. I feed much less of wellness and canidae than the bag says. kcals/cup doesn't matter if the protein and other nutrients are trash.

    you'll typically need to feed about half what's on the bag to maintain weight though each dog is different. look at that dog food project site and go to all the pages. when dog food lists by products, animal digest (stomach contents of the dead animal) and glandular remnants as protein sources your dog isn't going to actually use most of this and you're paying for it. so it's all a perspective thing really. get a bag of the good stuff and see how long it takes to go through it maintaining the same weight compared to the cheap stuff. if the good stuff has enough fatty acids already in it that you don't need to add more then you save even more.

    Just sort of thinking off the top of my head here with ideas. a good food will add 3-7 years to your dog's life depending on breed and average age. if they are healthier then the vet bills will also be less. so it's not just the $$ on the bag that go into the equation. :dogbiggrin:
  20. zbranka New Member

    Hi tx cowgirl,

    I fed my dog raw food. As a matter of a fact, he was on raw food all his life as I've done a search on a breeder that feeds all his dogs raw. I know that all the information you are finding can be overwhelming, but don't get discouraged! I assure you that the benefits are well worth it. I've helped a firend of mine switch her German Shepard to raw and I've seen the transformation first hand. The amount of energy she has now, her coat is so shiny that everyone keeps on pointing it out. She lost all her fat and is just plain happy dog. Not to mention that her teeth are pearl white. Honestly, I never grasped the concept of teeth cleaning for dogs. I wander who cleaned their teeth in the wild. Ah, that's right, they didn't need it as they did not have all that crap stuck on their teeth. Anyway, I believe that understanding dog's digestive system will help you understand why some concerns that we have when talking raw food does not apply to dogs. Human digestive system is VERY different than that of a dog. Of all the readings that I've done of raw feeding, I liked the following book the best:"Raw Food for Dogs
    - The Ultimate Reference for Dog Owners! by Mogens Eliasen. He has great books on dog training etc.
    Personally, I read a lot, get all the different kinds of info, where some is contradictory and use my own common sense. Feeding your dog good is not that expensive and is well worth your time!

    p.s. a good oil for dogs is "Arctic oil".


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