BARF food quantities

[tdavies]

I posted this elsewhere - sorry for doubling.
Our six month and a few days, freshly spayed border collie is a bit heavy. Our trainer commented on it a week ago and the vet who did Trixie's surgery used the "count her ribs" method and found a bit extra at her waist. Her weight is 20.12 kilos.
Right now she eats the equivalent of half a chicken a day, about a cup and a quarter of rice or oats and the fruit/veggie equivalent of one medium sized banana. The actual diet includes many varied foods ( salmon, beef liver, beef & pork bones, eggs, small amounts of vegetable oil, whole pumpkin, peas, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, etc.), I used the daily intake example with the chicken for discussion purposes. Everything but the animal protein and some of the fruit is cooked.
The vet suggested we reduce her intake by 10%/day which we're doing and keep everything on hold for two weeks to see if she's just growing in a different direction, for a while.
I have a friend who lives on the cold Canadian prairie and she feeds her full-grown Polish sheepdog (a PON?) a double elkburger - meat, innards and ground bones - once a day.

Her health is, in the vet's terms, "above excellent". Her coat's shiny. She's attentive and eager to please and learn. But we are concerned about her bit of extra weight.
So how much should feed her? Thanks heaven, he finally got the question, eh?

 

[storm22]

it prob all depends on how much exercise you do with her also,
storm (blue heeler) is about 19kg and he has a cup of bikkis in the morn (pro plan) and at night 250g of dog roll or equilivent in farm kill (sheep, beef venison-his fav) but we walk a good 2hours a day plus horse riding, biking, running, or training (depends on the day)
so you might have to put out more exercise but i dont know
how much exercise are yous doing?

 

[Jean Cote]

Well. First of all, your dog is six months old. She is not even full grown now so you don't really have to worry about her being overweight. Unless you plan to compete with her in agility or flyball (where you need speed), a little weight shouldn't be anything to worry about.

Your vet has pointed out that her health is in above excellent condition - he would of said something if she was overweight. Besides, if she has plenty of energy then everything is fine.

 

[tdavies]

BARF diet - thanks

She seems quite healthy so we'll go with Jean's advice and chill on the anxiety stuff.
She had her surgery on Wednesday. This morning we walked about three or four kilometers. Normally on a day when life doesn't intervene too hard we have at least two hours of outside stuff. Mostly, it's about running. Our house is surrounded by friendly farm neighbours so we have a few hundred acres to tramp through. She rarely has lead walking - right now during convalescence, but normally it's not necessary unless we cross a road or walk on a road.
Read on if you're interested in our BARF experiences Here coat is probably the thing most people notice right away. Really shiny. She no longer smells "like a dog" unless pretty thoroughly soaked. her breath only smells when she has raw fish and then only for a couple of hours. Her bathroom functions are excellent and regular. The head vet at our clinic is the one who pressed hard for this diet. I'm glad she did. Although chopping raw meat with an axe in early morning hours seems kinda primal.
Thanks for your replies and advice.

 

[Jean Cote]

I’d be cautious about the amount of exercise you give her. She just got her surgery 3 days ago and the last thing you want is some stitches to break. This could lead to a lot of problems.

When my dogs got their surgery, I kept them inside and trained them to do tricks and formal obedience, things that didn’t require much exercise. Remember that even though your dog has a lot of energy, she is still healing.

One week of rest & being a couch potato won’t hurt her.

 

[chessiesrule]

I also have a rescue 6 mo BC that will be spayed this Tuesday. She is 23 lbs and I also feed her the homemade diet. Her coat is really shines and people also comment on this. Her diet is mainly chicken and turkey and rice and veggies. She was extremely underweight when we got her to we had to really increase her feed but now I have to stabilize her. She gets approx 1 1/4 cups of food twice a day. Their treats are usally liver bits the size of a raison so they are not that big. Also you mentioned that you feed her pork, when I got the diet from a holistic vet for my Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, they said no pork in the diet. My Golden is on a diet and I put 1/3 cup pumpkin with his food and I noticed a difference in his weight. They do get beef and salmon on occasion. We also live in a rural area and my dogs are rarely on a leash but we start obedience classes next month so we have to start. This is our first BC and what a difference from the others puppies. We are really excited to have her. She will start in agility as soon as the weather gets warmer which probably won't be until April.

 

[storm22]

dogs love liver dont they, storm will do anything for liver, koda hasnt had liver yet (been to lazy storm just going on with bikkis) but she'll learn fast

 

[lagomorphmonster]

My dog's coat is super shiny too, and she is NOT on raw food. I think raw meat is ok as long as it is fresh (I eat my steak medium rare too). I do worry that some people who feed the BARF diet are using supermarket meats, which has passed many counters and surfaces and hands, and may harbor salmonella (or other bacteria). Please note that I'm not criticizing your diet; I just want to make sure that people who read this post and decide to do BARF are clearly informed.

 

[tdavies]

Thanks for all the replies. I have a couple of further questions:
1) Chessiesrule wrote that the holistic vet said, no pork. I wonder what the reason was and have others heard this similar prohibition?
and
2) I wonder how tough dogs digestive systems really are. Lagomorphmonster cautioned against food that's contaminated in supermarkets or somewhere else along the human grocery chain. Aren't conditions for human food production higher than those for pets?
Thanks.

 

[lagomorphmonster]

1) uncooked pork may harbor trichinella. See CDC fact sheet: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/trichinosis/factsht_trichinosis.htm

2) Raw chicken has been shown to be a common cause of salmonella since the 1980s, with sporadic outbreaks of salmonella in raw eggs as well. http://www.cdc.gov/enterics/publications/146-kimura_1998.pdf and http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol12no12/06-0653.htm

These are just the most common sources of infections, with many other bacteria/parasites carried by other meats (as well as contaminates in vegetables that are not well washed).

I don't think dog digestive systems are necessarily tougher than ours. There was a recent outbreak of salmonella in jerky treats on the market that made many dogs sick.

I think it's a common perception that dogs/wolves in the wild eat raw foods, so it must be good for them. Please bear in mind that those are freshly killed animals, and don't have time for the bacteria/mold to grow. Also, our domesticated food animals are usually housed in overcrowded conditions where they literally stand on manure. Ever visited a chicken house or beef ranch? Moreover, wild animals don't tend to live as long as our domesticated pets, precisely because they are exposed to diseases (and predation) that our companions are not exposed to.

 

[chessiesrule]

tdavies - I don't do the BARF diet and the chickens and turkeys that I feed are raised by me and chemical free. The reason no pork they said was due to parasites and ever since they told me about that, I rarely eat pork. I do give my "kids" some raw chicken but it is usually cooked. If I feed hamburger, it is cooked but they do get raw steak or stewing meat but the beef I buy is natural beef or beefalo and also chemical free. I have been doing this diet for 5 years and I have never had any problems with any of my dogs. I also keep all my cutting surfaces super clean and I eat the chicken breast and they get the rest andI have never been sick. I also get fresh eggs that are chemical free and use that as part of the protein as well but they eggs are cooked.