Hi, my name is Elizabeth. My husband and I have a 2 year old female Pom-Chi and are picking up our new 8wk old female Husky/Golden Retriever. Anyone here have any tips on how to introduce the two? The baby is already very dominant as she has been in quarantine with her siblings for 5 weeks with no human contact...they've kinda started forming a pack. Anyways. I have lots of ideas of games to teach her and our pom-chi. But I'm not sure how to teach them to interact with each other. Should I allow the older one to be dominate over the younger one, even though the younger one is already 3x bigger than my Pom-Chi? Or will simply both being subordinate to us solve our problem?:dogunsure:
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I really don't recommend trying to force dogs to interact or decide who is dominant or who is submissive. In multi-dog households, their still has to be an heirarchy chain, with you at the top. How can you stay at the top of your pack?
-Teach your dogs "wait"--doors, gates, etc YOU should always exit/enter first, and the dogs second.
-You supply their resources, and that is a dominant position(food, shelter, etc).
-Call your dog to you to play or pet, rather that having your dog come to you and demand attention.
-Leash-train your dogs--a dog who pulls is leading the way, making you nothing more than a follower and even just baggage to drag around. If you don't know how to teach your dogs to walk beside you on/off-leash, feel free to ask or browse the forum. There are many posts on this.
There are many other things to help you stay the alpha of your pack, but these are the main things to remember.
Aside from that, I do not believe at all that you can change a dominant dog. It is in their nature to be dominant, and there is nothing wrong with that. AGGRESSION is an entirely different matter, although uncontrolled dominance is often part of the problem. The more dominant dog will dominate the other dog--standing over him, putting the other dog in its place if it tries to do anything impolite, etc. This is okay--so long as the dominant dog is not going to give your submissive dog a complex and a vet bill. A dominant dog typically does not cause physical damage when they dominate another dog--two very dominant dogs may have recurring tiffs, but 9 times out of 10 the food chain is sorted out and the more submissive dog knows who's in charge, so she'll respect the dominant one enough to not cause problems.
Your older dog may correct the puppy, no matter how dominant, if she tries to snoop in her food, take her toys, sleep in her bed, etc. Let her--puppy will either correct her or back down. These corrections(from either dog) are important in sorting out who's in charge. Let them just be dogs--your 8-wk-old puppy is not going to put your Pom-Chi in the vet. I also think it is not good at all that your pup has been quarantined with no human contact! The prime socialization period only lasts until 12 weeks--not that you can't socialize an older dog, you can and it is in fact important. But the best time for the majority of socialization is in the first 12 weeks of life, so she's missed out on 5 wks of a lot of socilization! You have a lot of catching up to do.
You don't really have to teach them to interact with each other, just let them. I really recommend crate training, as the puppy needs a place to get away from the stress of the new home. Older dog needs to have the alone time as well, so if pup is crate trained older dog can have some time without the playful pup.
Hope this helps, and if you have any questions feel free to ask! Welcome to the Academy, congrats on the new pup, and enjoy the site!
-Teach your dogs "wait"--doors, gates, etc YOU should always exit/enter first, and the dogs second.
-You supply their resources, and that is a dominant position(food, shelter, etc).
-Call your dog to you to play or pet, rather that having your dog come to you and demand attention.
-Leash-train your dogs--a dog who pulls is leading the way, making you nothing more than a follower and even just baggage to drag around. If you don't know how to teach your dogs to walk beside you on/off-leash, feel free to ask or browse the forum. There are many posts on this.
There are many other things to help you stay the alpha of your pack, but these are the main things to remember.
Aside from that, I do not believe at all that you can change a dominant dog. It is in their nature to be dominant, and there is nothing wrong with that. AGGRESSION is an entirely different matter, although uncontrolled dominance is often part of the problem. The more dominant dog will dominate the other dog--standing over him, putting the other dog in its place if it tries to do anything impolite, etc. This is okay--so long as the dominant dog is not going to give your submissive dog a complex and a vet bill. A dominant dog typically does not cause physical damage when they dominate another dog--two very dominant dogs may have recurring tiffs, but 9 times out of 10 the food chain is sorted out and the more submissive dog knows who's in charge, so she'll respect the dominant one enough to not cause problems.
Your older dog may correct the puppy, no matter how dominant, if she tries to snoop in her food, take her toys, sleep in her bed, etc. Let her--puppy will either correct her or back down. These corrections(from either dog) are important in sorting out who's in charge. Let them just be dogs--your 8-wk-old puppy is not going to put your Pom-Chi in the vet. I also think it is not good at all that your pup has been quarantined with no human contact! The prime socialization period only lasts until 12 weeks--not that you can't socialize an older dog, you can and it is in fact important. But the best time for the majority of socialization is in the first 12 weeks of life, so she's missed out on 5 wks of a lot of socilization! You have a lot of catching up to do.
You don't really have to teach them to interact with each other, just let them. I really recommend crate training, as the puppy needs a place to get away from the stress of the new home. Older dog needs to have the alone time as well, so if pup is crate trained older dog can have some time without the playful pup.
Hope this helps, and if you have any questions feel free to ask! Welcome to the Academy, congrats on the new pup, and enjoy the site!
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
Tx is right, the dogs will work it out between themselves, who is boss dog. yup.
I've heard it is helpful, to introduce two new dogs in NEUTRAL territory, like a park. Especally if there is question of if they will get along. Is worth getting off to a good start. Ive heard the 'resident' dog's home is sometimes NOT the best place to make introduction.
I've never done this, but i've seen it several times on various dog tv shows. Go to some park, and you walk your 'resident' dog on leash, and someone else walks New dog on leash, about 30 feet apart, parallel, but going opposite directions...start with even more distance if needed, and keep passing back and forth, so dogs can slowly get accustomed to each other from afar.
With each pass, you both come in slowly towards each other, shortening the distance...passing back and forth, each time a few more feet closer.......if no signs of aggression,:doghappy: keep on making it closer. Let them introduce themselves and sniff and all that.
I"d keep both dogs leashed initially, while trying to avoid a taught leash on either, but leave leash on to pull them away if there is any real trouble....if all is going okay, Some dogs get honked off easier on a leash...be nice if you could find fenced in park to drop the leash if it is going well......Drop leash, do not take leash off.
I've seen on tv, when that does NOT work out, :dogangry:that walking both dogs in same direction for a while, (to avoid the face-to-face scenario) but some distance apart helped. And close in to a side by side thing...
(I've had several dogs that did not like a dog on first meet, but for some reason, SECOND meet, =best friends. Go figure. My ol Toby, never liked any dog at first, nope,:dognowink: Toby always required two meets to like any new dog. He was a crank though, ha ha, had arthritis... )
PLUS, they'll get a lil worn out, be more relaxed from all this walking and walking, and maybe won't have as much energy to protest if they dont' like each other?:msngiggle:
I"ve also heard, that sometimes, is good idea if possible, to close door or gate off new dog in some room, so dogs can get used to each other for first day, through the gate. I've always wondered if that isn't hard for New dog...?
Some folks say New Dog does need a ton of sleep anyway, is stressful to a dog to move. Ha, my new dog, Buddy, he slept sooo much the first day or two,:ysleeping: i thought he must be old?!!? (Vet says he is either 1 or 2 years old, and he is lively lil fella now!! )
Probably your dogs will do just fine, :cheers:and won't need all that separate room stuff!!!!!
HOPE IT GOES WELL!! LET US KNOW!! When does New Dog come home?
Also, be aware, is way easy to 'lose' New Dog, he does NOT know where he lives, you are no one to him yet, and there are great smells everywhere to be followed...
I've heard it is helpful, to introduce two new dogs in NEUTRAL territory, like a park. Especally if there is question of if they will get along. Is worth getting off to a good start. Ive heard the 'resident' dog's home is sometimes NOT the best place to make introduction.
I've never done this, but i've seen it several times on various dog tv shows. Go to some park, and you walk your 'resident' dog on leash, and someone else walks New dog on leash, about 30 feet apart, parallel, but going opposite directions...start with even more distance if needed, and keep passing back and forth, so dogs can slowly get accustomed to each other from afar.
With each pass, you both come in slowly towards each other, shortening the distance...passing back and forth, each time a few more feet closer.......if no signs of aggression,:doghappy: keep on making it closer. Let them introduce themselves and sniff and all that.
I"d keep both dogs leashed initially, while trying to avoid a taught leash on either, but leave leash on to pull them away if there is any real trouble....if all is going okay, Some dogs get honked off easier on a leash...be nice if you could find fenced in park to drop the leash if it is going well......Drop leash, do not take leash off.
I've seen on tv, when that does NOT work out, :dogangry:that walking both dogs in same direction for a while, (to avoid the face-to-face scenario) but some distance apart helped. And close in to a side by side thing...
(I've had several dogs that did not like a dog on first meet, but for some reason, SECOND meet, =best friends. Go figure. My ol Toby, never liked any dog at first, nope,:dognowink: Toby always required two meets to like any new dog. He was a crank though, ha ha, had arthritis... )
PLUS, they'll get a lil worn out, be more relaxed from all this walking and walking, and maybe won't have as much energy to protest if they dont' like each other?:msngiggle:
I"ve also heard, that sometimes, is good idea if possible, to close door or gate off new dog in some room, so dogs can get used to each other for first day, through the gate. I've always wondered if that isn't hard for New dog...?
Some folks say New Dog does need a ton of sleep anyway, is stressful to a dog to move. Ha, my new dog, Buddy, he slept sooo much the first day or two,:ysleeping: i thought he must be old?!!? (Vet says he is either 1 or 2 years old, and he is lively lil fella now!! )
Probably your dogs will do just fine, :cheers:and won't need all that separate room stuff!!!!!
HOPE IT GOES WELL!! LET US KNOW!! When does New Dog come home?
Also, be aware, is way easy to 'lose' New Dog, he does NOT know where he lives, you are no one to him yet, and there are great smells everywhere to be followed...
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
OH! I just reread your original post, disregard my entire post--you are bringing home a PUPPY!!! Oh!! Puppies can't do all that walking!! Whoopsie! Sorry! Somehow, i missed the word "puppy" in there! Duh! I'm going to bed...:msngiggle:
Tx is right, though, puppies who haven't been around humans got a lot of catching up to do!! Why in the world would anyone 'quarantine' a puppy?
Tx is right, though, puppies who haven't been around humans got a lot of catching up to do!! Why in the world would anyone 'quarantine' a puppy?
Ooh neutral territory, good point Tigerlily! Completely slipped my mind, lol. Absolutely right. Your other dog considers your home her territory, and if puppy 'invades' it, this may pose a problem. And it may not pose a problem at all--just depends on the dog.
And still good to keep in mind---walking two new siblings together is a wonderful way for them to safely interact and get used to each other's company. And indeed...the idea of placing the pups in quarantine is just ridiculous because socialization to people/dogs/etc will be a rude awakening after being allowed to become basically a wild dog pack(even though of course mum is domesticated). Pups not quarantined could've already learned very good manners with people(not nipping, etc), had lots of socialization to crazy house sounds(pans, vacuums, cars, etc), met dogs, cats, and a million other things that they really need to be introduced to. I see MANY questions coming in the near future!
Even though your older dog may be smaller, she may end up running the roost! My 30-lb BC girl is dominant, and she tells the boys of the house how things are going to go. She loves to rough-house with 60-lb Rottie mix, 50 lb BC/ACD, and newest BIG Weimaraner/GS Pointer(all boys). It's pretty comical to see her playfully pin them down. She is DEFINITELY in charge of the boys, even though Rusty(Rottie mix) is very dominant. Her best buddy outside of the house is a 110-lb male Lab...who is also happy to let her boss him around. ^^ She never gets out of hand, though, and she never does anything more than nip if someone crosses the line(which rarely ever happens).
If the 2-yr-old gets along well with dogs, then I really wouldn't worry. I really don't buy the idea of 8-wk-olds and other very young puppies having 'aggression issues.' I think it's a crock because at this age the ONLY way puppies might have ANY aggression AT ALL towards all dogs would be if they had been very severely attacked numerous times, creating the beginnings of a fear aggression problem. Dominance and aggression are not the same thing, therefore a dominant dog is not the same thing as an aggressive dog. Regardless of how dominant your pup may be, you shouldn't have a great deal of trouble introducing the two as long as your other dog has no aggression or fear towards other dogs.
And still good to keep in mind---walking two new siblings together is a wonderful way for them to safely interact and get used to each other's company. And indeed...the idea of placing the pups in quarantine is just ridiculous because socialization to people/dogs/etc will be a rude awakening after being allowed to become basically a wild dog pack(even though of course mum is domesticated). Pups not quarantined could've already learned very good manners with people(not nipping, etc), had lots of socialization to crazy house sounds(pans, vacuums, cars, etc), met dogs, cats, and a million other things that they really need to be introduced to. I see MANY questions coming in the near future!
Even though your older dog may be smaller, she may end up running the roost! My 30-lb BC girl is dominant, and she tells the boys of the house how things are going to go. She loves to rough-house with 60-lb Rottie mix, 50 lb BC/ACD, and newest BIG Weimaraner/GS Pointer(all boys). It's pretty comical to see her playfully pin them down. She is DEFINITELY in charge of the boys, even though Rusty(Rottie mix) is very dominant. Her best buddy outside of the house is a 110-lb male Lab...who is also happy to let her boss him around. ^^ She never gets out of hand, though, and she never does anything more than nip if someone crosses the line(which rarely ever happens).
If the 2-yr-old gets along well with dogs, then I really wouldn't worry. I really don't buy the idea of 8-wk-olds and other very young puppies having 'aggression issues.' I think it's a crock because at this age the ONLY way puppies might have ANY aggression AT ALL towards all dogs would be if they had been very severely attacked numerous times, creating the beginnings of a fear aggression problem. Dominance and aggression are not the same thing, therefore a dominant dog is not the same thing as an aggressive dog. Regardless of how dominant your pup may be, you shouldn't have a great deal of trouble introducing the two as long as your other dog has no aggression or fear towards other dogs.
snooks
Experienced Member
]\ Welcome and congratulations on the new addition.
I too would advise against deciding who is dominant esp. if you are judging that wrt to humans or littermates. This predisposes some people even unconsciously against totally equal or reinforcement of house rules. Dog dominance is a changing thing and it can be different day to day or minute to minute. It will certainly be different in a different home with different dogs. Some interesting reads that might make ur concerns much less. My dogs take turns with the dominance thing though it's so benign I don't usually see a need to intervene. The bigger dog may be on her back playing but she chose to lie down and self handicap on purpose and is still actively engaging. I can tell when she's tired though and usually call them both for a shake off and ramp down. If I don't she will decisively but without harm put an end to the games. So is puppy dominant while she's on top? No, because the older dog is in control and willingly lowering herself to play when she doesn't need to. She also calls the stop without argument.
http://www.showdogs.co.za/articles/wag_the_dog/dominance.htm
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/dominance.htm
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/macho.htm
http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/pack.txt
I do advise as all of my trainers did in mixing two very different size soon to be adult dogs. Train a good fun positive leave it and remember that an adolescent G/H mix can break P/C bones even very innocently by accidently being a big pawed puppy klutz. I do advise some supervision for a good while until the puppy stage is calmer or outgrown. For Goldens that can be 3 years, I have two of these perpetual puppies that I adore.
As the Husky part matures he's going to need lots of good safe vigorous exercise. See your vet for safe exercise protocol for large breed puppies. Before 2 years no jogging or jumping as in agility or out of an SUV. Some good fetch on grassy surfaces is fine. Their growing bones need protection until they are mature to avoid future painful musculoskeletal problems.
As for introductions take them on a short walk together after a brief rest in a crate containing the other dog's scent on a blanket or towel and a few treats. Then walk side by side without head on meetings and lots of treats for being good dogs. I don't advise crating one dog and allowing the other to advance and sniff and loom outside the crate. I see more lip raises out of uncertainty that way. So make all experiences positive and reward all good behavior as they interact. Even reward ignoring one another. Small pea sized meat bits are best. There is no rule that says they have to play or sleep together the first day. Go slow and see what they are comfortable with. I would feed separately in crates initially and see how you feel comfortable from there.
Of course go to the classroom here and dig around for some very well put together training that anyone in the family can do. There are loads of just what you need. Patricia McConnell has written several books on Managing a multi dog household, I highly recommend her Puppy Primer, The Other End of the Leash, Feeling Outnumbered, are all aimed a positive reward based training is another a friend really recommends.
I too would advise against deciding who is dominant esp. if you are judging that wrt to humans or littermates. This predisposes some people even unconsciously against totally equal or reinforcement of house rules. Dog dominance is a changing thing and it can be different day to day or minute to minute. It will certainly be different in a different home with different dogs. Some interesting reads that might make ur concerns much less. My dogs take turns with the dominance thing though it's so benign I don't usually see a need to intervene. The bigger dog may be on her back playing but she chose to lie down and self handicap on purpose and is still actively engaging. I can tell when she's tired though and usually call them both for a shake off and ramp down. If I don't she will decisively but without harm put an end to the games. So is puppy dominant while she's on top? No, because the older dog is in control and willingly lowering herself to play when she doesn't need to. She also calls the stop without argument.
http://www.showdogs.co.za/articles/wag_the_dog/dominance.htm
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/dominance.htm
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/macho.htm
http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/pack.txt
I do advise as all of my trainers did in mixing two very different size soon to be adult dogs. Train a good fun positive leave it and remember that an adolescent G/H mix can break P/C bones even very innocently by accidently being a big pawed puppy klutz. I do advise some supervision for a good while until the puppy stage is calmer or outgrown. For Goldens that can be 3 years, I have two of these perpetual puppies that I adore.
As the Husky part matures he's going to need lots of good safe vigorous exercise. See your vet for safe exercise protocol for large breed puppies. Before 2 years no jogging or jumping as in agility or out of an SUV. Some good fetch on grassy surfaces is fine. Their growing bones need protection until they are mature to avoid future painful musculoskeletal problems.
As for introductions take them on a short walk together after a brief rest in a crate containing the other dog's scent on a blanket or towel and a few treats. Then walk side by side without head on meetings and lots of treats for being good dogs. I don't advise crating one dog and allowing the other to advance and sniff and loom outside the crate. I see more lip raises out of uncertainty that way. So make all experiences positive and reward all good behavior as they interact. Even reward ignoring one another. Small pea sized meat bits are best. There is no rule that says they have to play or sleep together the first day. Go slow and see what they are comfortable with. I would feed separately in crates initially and see how you feel comfortable from there.
Of course go to the classroom here and dig around for some very well put together training that anyone in the family can do. There are loads of just what you need. Patricia McConnell has written several books on Managing a multi dog household, I highly recommend her Puppy Primer, The Other End of the Leash, Feeling Outnumbered, are all aimed a positive reward based training is another a friend really recommends.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
tx_cowgirl;16367 said:
OOH! I FIGURED OUT HOW TO "QUOTE"...kinda...the entire thing appeared in my reply, and i had to delete alll the other lines...
Tx, my Buddy DOES come to me and demand attention...what SHOULD i be doing when Buddy does this?
It's a very suddle way of being dominant, and not necessarily one that always needs "corrected." When you get down to the nitty gritty, tons of things the normal housedog does are dominant--right down to laying in front of your front door. Mud does this often, but it is by no means to control the traffic in/out of the house--our entryway is tile, and she likes the cool feel of it. I don't try to stop her from this at all as it doesn't worry me and she is not dominant towards me at all.
Does Buddy rush out the door before you? Does he lead the way on walks? Does he have any other dominant behaviors other than just wanting attention?
If no, then honestly you don't need to be in panic thinking your dog is running the house. You can however, do a few things just a case--and he won't mind.
If he walks up to you and shoves your hand or really tries hard to get your attention, just ignore him or even walk away. When he gives up and lays down or walks away, call him to you enthusiastically and give him lots of love. If you walked away and he followed you, just wander around until he loses interest a little. Him following you is a submissive behavior, so he can get pets for this. If he brings you a ball and drops it at your feet, just continue whatever you were doing, and maybe even go to another room(where you can get another toy). With this other toy in hand, walk back to him(if he hasn't followed you) and entice him to play. This way you are initiating the fun game, rather than playing because he brought you the ball and decided it was time to play.
Like I said, if this is the only thing he does that is dominant, I don't think you should worry. One thing to keep in mind is that submissive dogs will also go to their alphas and lick their mouths/chins/etc. You see this very often with puppies--they will go to their mother and lick at her face. So don't think that just because Buddy is coming to you, he's trying to dominate you. It's not always the case. They are pack animals and they do want the closeness of their pack members. Many of the daily things you do make you the alpha of the household---you feed him(best after you eat), you provide his water and shelter. He follows you around the house. I seem to recall you've been working on Buddy waiting to go outside, to get out of the vehicle, etc. This is also good and makes you decide when he can exit/enter someplace.
Does Buddy rush out the door before you? Does he lead the way on walks? Does he have any other dominant behaviors other than just wanting attention?
If no, then honestly you don't need to be in panic thinking your dog is running the house.
You can however, do a few things just a case--and he won't mind.If he walks up to you and shoves your hand or really tries hard to get your attention, just ignore him or even walk away. When he gives up and lays down or walks away, call him to you enthusiastically and give him lots of love. If you walked away and he followed you, just wander around until he loses interest a little. Him following you is a submissive behavior, so he can get pets for this. If he brings you a ball and drops it at your feet, just continue whatever you were doing, and maybe even go to another room(where you can get another toy). With this other toy in hand, walk back to him(if he hasn't followed you) and entice him to play. This way you are initiating the fun game, rather than playing because he brought you the ball and decided it was time to play.
Like I said, if this is the only thing he does that is dominant, I don't think you should worry. One thing to keep in mind is that submissive dogs will also go to their alphas and lick their mouths/chins/etc. You see this very often with puppies--they will go to their mother and lick at her face. So don't think that just because Buddy is coming to you, he's trying to dominate you. It's not always the case. They are pack animals and they do want the closeness of their pack members. Many of the daily things you do make you the alpha of the household---you feed him(best after you eat), you provide his water and shelter. He follows you around the house. I seem to recall you've been working on Buddy waiting to go outside, to get out of the vehicle, etc. This is also good and makes you decide when he can exit/enter someplace.
snooks
Experienced Member
If Buddy bugging you for attention bugs you then ignore him. Or stand and walk away. My puppy often gets the freaky on and just wants to play and will get pretty pushy with me or block my other dog. When she does this I refuse to pay any attention to her. She figured this out pretty fast and quit doing it. An occasional reminder is still needed. I also trained her to "go lie down" when she's pestering me. Often I'll wait a few minutes then go get a toy or call her and show her how I want to play. I initiate and when we're done we're done. This way I also get many fewer times asking to go out when she's just bored and doesn't need to potty at 1am. :dogtongue:
I'm not convinced this is dominance as much as it is demanding because demanding and being persistent may work. I wouldn't worry that this was dominance. Dogs communicate in so many ways and they must initially guess at what works. When they guess in a way we don't like we always have an option to change it. That doesn't indicate dominance to me.
:dogwink:
I'm not convinced this is dominance as much as it is demanding because demanding and being persistent may work. I wouldn't worry that this was dominance. Dogs communicate in so many ways and they must initially guess at what works. When they guess in a way we don't like we always have an option to change it. That doesn't indicate dominance to me.
:dogwink: