Advice?

[charmedwolf]

So my room mates' brother is spending the month with us. He's never met the girls so we've been cautious about everything (making sure doors are closed etc ). He's very open on working with the problem dogs.

The problem lies with the others that tend to be around when my room mate, the brother and myself bring up the subject. They tend to snap "you should just force them to deal with it". I've tried to explain that it won't help but I just get ignored because I tend to be the youngest in the group therefore god forbid I know something and they don't. I just need someway I can beat it into their heads that this requires patience and none of their input because I know what I am doing. It has just become the big purple elephant in the room and it has made the room mate's brother uncomfortable around the others because he does want to help.

 

[tigerlily46514]

ohhhhhhh, i do not have any advice, but i DO have an entire bucketful of empathy. I really so understand just exactly what you are describing, it is the same for me, too, and i AM an older person, still, no one really really really understands about managing dogs with special needs. Humans are wayyyyyyy harder to train than dogs are.

Over the years i've had Buddy, I have been told things like, "oh, just let the dogs work it out", and "well, Buddy is probably that way because maybe YOU are nervous inside", {thank you to the tv show dog whisperer) and "get a trainer" and "stop being so protective of him, YOU are messing him up" and so on.
so, with inner attitudes like that,
it makes it hard to get them to honor my requests.

Is your roomate helpful/on your side? and the brother, too?
mayyyybe, maybe, if you sit them down,
and tell them what you want, and point out to them, the dismissive or non-cooperative responses from the visitors,
and tell them you hope they will back you up, and have your back, on helping the visitors behave in the way you ask, or whatever it is you need done,
maybe then, you will have some support in the larger group of visitors??

still, groups of ppl are harder to get to go along with a change, than just one person, imo.

What do you do with the dogs, while the visitors are there, send the dogs to their mats or what?

 

[tigerlily46514]

OH, wait, upon re-read, you are looking for some ways to verbally explain to them what you are doing....ah, gotcha. yeah, that is tough. Sorry about my last reply, duh.

If i come up with anything, i'll come back here,
but, realize, not everyone knows what you know,
and DO stick to your guns, even if others don't agree, (i know you will anyway)

and you are soooo so so right, that only someone who has NEVER successfully managed a dog with issues get better would say "force it".
that
is
one of the few things,
that is almost universally agreed upon,
by almost everyone who knows much about helping dogs with issues.

evvvvveryone seems to agree you are right, Cwolf, that forcing a dog with issues to "face his fears" is not helpful, and is actually damaging to the dog's sense of trust and security.

ONe story that MIGHT help them realize how "forcing" a dog to "face his issue" is my old worn out "spider story" that i use so much.

Some humans can understand better about humans with fears, than they can understand about dogs.

Picture if a person or a child
is extremely, phobically afraid of spiders.or snakes, or roaches, etc,
Throwing spiders on such a person, will not help them "get over it"
and would probably make them worse, AND less trustful of those who allowed it to happen. (in this analogy, the dog owner is the one who allowed the fearful thing to get on the dog, okay)

BUT,
if every time the person saw spiders, $20 bills fell outa the sky, (treats) well, it *might* help the person develop a new association to seeing spiders.


If the person was allowed to see a spider at a distance that THAT person IS comfortable about,
and the others DO keep that spider far enough away, the person can come to realize, "i see the spider, i am kept safe, ppl DO respect my fear and understand, and i can relax and feel safe while looking at a spider"

which is a great first step of the process, and it IS a process for dogs.

Overtime, once this person DOES trust, that he/she will be kept safe,
and is given a chance to learn how to relax even if a spider is around,
overtime, the distance between this human and spider may be shortened, but trust is key.
If the person DOES trust the others won't throw spiders on them, the person may begin to be able to tolerate spiders jsut a lil bit closer each time, and build up a new better history in his/her mind, that seeing spiders does not have to be overwhelming after all. Some one helped the person learn HOW to be calm while seeing spiders.


it is sort of the same way for dogs.

who knows, this story *might* help your human friends develop a new appreciation for what your dogs are going through, and your plans to handle it all at a sub-threshold level of desensitization....??

 

[rouen]

Do you forsee these people trying to help at any point?
Do any of them listen to you and respect your approach?

 

[charmedwolf]

Oh, yes Tigerlily the room mate and the brother are very much on my side. And to be honest my room mate is the one the reminds me about mob mentality and keeps my frustration and anger in check. The brother just honestly wants to help because he feels like a burden by trapping the girls away from him.

Depending on where we plan to be when visitors are here, the dogs are either out in the yard or in my bedroom. We still have to have some sort of barrier between the visitors and the dogs as they aren't ready yet.

I think it wouldn't bug me so much if it weren't for the fact that the 3 people with the loudest voices on what I should do have never owned a dog in their life, nevermind one with issues. The other ones are easily bribed with food for their services and attention. Lol. I might have to tell them the spider story or at least something similar. I actually have a phobia of crickets so much so that I can't go into my room mate's room where her Bearded Dragon lives as well as a few hundred crickets live for him to eat. They should understand that one, in the very least.

They tend to respect and listen to me about certain things about training but definitely not about reacting/aggressive behaviors. Honestly, you think they would listen to the person going to school for this. I see 3 of them helping not including my room mate and the brother as long as I give them food (The joy of being friends with college kids). The other 3 that are the ones that bicker with me about it not so much. It's come to the point where if they come to the house they stay in the garage and don't say anything about the dogs. Fine by me. I don't want to lose friends because of Jinx and Isis but if it happens, it happens.

 

[Amateur]

Dogs over idiots any day

 

[tigerlily46514]

//".......the 3 people with the loudest voices on what I should do have never owned a dog in their life, nevermind one with issues"//

i know what you mean.
I find even other dog owners,
if they have never ever worked on rehabbing a dog with issues are not much better, sometimes.

but the one thing, that almost all ppl working with dogs with issues all seem to agree on, is we can not force our dogs to "face their issues". Maybe dog owners who are NEW to trying to help their aggressive dogs might think forcing the dog to "face their issues" is the way to go,
but, it usually doesn't take even the new owners too long to realize, that was a mistake...

Good luck,
and CharmedWolf, don't give up on these humans......like dogs, humans also need a lil time to absorb new ideas. Given time, they might be able to absorb a new idea.
lol, i just thought of an old quote:
//"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."//
that 18th century quote does seem true....even about dog information!!


I wish you the best of luck, and we are always here if you need an ear.