Asking to go out to potty

[wjcook]

Hi there,
Has anyone got any hints as to how I can teach my jack russell to ask to go out to potty. At the moment she just goes and sits at the back door and waits(and sometimes can't wait!). My previous dogs had no problem with this and just did it naturally and I'm really struggling for ideas. Thanks.
WJCook

[xanny]

I have bells hanging on the back door. When Bender was a puppy, I'd ring them before we went outside. Eventually, he started ringing them himself when he wanted out. You could also teach your jack russell to ring the bells (super easy if she knows how to target) and quickly use the premack principle for a reward. (She rings the bells, you let her outside.) Hope that helps!

[wjcook]

Thank you. I will get some bells and give it a try.

wjcook

[fickla]

how old is your dog? But really, some dogs never learn to tell you they have to go out. Those dogs don't have accidents if they are potty trained, they jsut learn to hold it. My 2yr old corgi hasn't had an accident since a pup but he never tells me to let him outside. We use a regular schedule or go out whenever the younger dog tells me (by sitting by the door).

If your dog is having accidents, then she's not potty trained. it's up to you to watch your dog 100% of the time until she is. If she is going to the back of the door then you really do have a signal that she tells you. If you respond to it everytime and as you prevent her from peeing inside, she will learn to sit there and wait.

You can try the bells, but most people find it very annoying. A lot of dogs learn to ring the bells whenever she wants to visit outside, not just just pee. But some dogs do very well.

[snooks]

WJ forgive me for pasting things in but this is a frequent topic here--fear not we all have good time tested solutions here. i can attest to what i wrote and mostly agree with what I skimmed over. there are lots of smart people here with great ideas that i freely adopt and use and learn much from. as long as you keep this positive and rewarding for ur dog i agree with it. i don't like punishment b/c it teaches dogs to hide and avoid and not come to you for help with the door.

pasted in from some past posts on this topic I wrote. i start with targeting when the dog doesn't have to go.
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Hi Gorittany, welcome. I also have Goldens, two girls and I just love Brittany’s. She's a cutie pie. Usually when I start training a new adult dog like a rescue or foster I start with targeting with nose then paw. It lays the foundation for a lot of follow up behaviors. For example come might evolve from holding out your hand for a nose touch and getting the come behavior. It's also very handy in teaching tricks and pick up things and flip them over etc. Once a dog learns to touch with nose and paw and knows that you will reward them for doing so they set about figuring thinks out. So don't go too fast and teach open the fridge door unless you are sure it won't be emptied.

Go to the classroom and monthly challenges. There is some great stuff there. Loads of tricks with videos that people made to help. Goldens and Brits are so smart I'll bet you're and expert in no time. Ask questions if you need any help. Yay! to you for rescuing her too. That's wonderful. Look forward to seeing you on the forums.

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there's some nice stuff here about alternatives I posted to a while back

"ringing a bell when needing to go out"

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another historical post about building in a wait but the right way

I usually watch to see what they do if I take just a little more time to get to the door. It's sort of a fine line between saying good for telling me and wait one sec. I go just a tad slow and get the leash and the treats and put on shoes instead of whisking her out like when she was tiny when I never took my shoes off and had treats in my pocket. I trained her to come find and touch me and tell me. I also ask don't drag me to the door, a sit at the door, I go first, and sit and wait outside as I close the door since she's leashed I don't want her just to take off and pull. I slowly add in these wait behaviors with really good rewards. If she's able to control herself and be calm when she really needs to go she gets some points for that. Not that I add a lot b/c that would just be torture but I ask for manners and no forceful rude behavior.

I also watch what happens if puppy is putting up a fit or if she gets very persistent when I am occupied or on the phone etc. My puppy gets insistent and goes and sits by the door. Comes back and paws me, barks really loud and just about screams LET ME OUT NOW! It's kind of like an everyday thing of observation and what she'll do in the kennel at night when she needs to pee but I suspect she's just being uppity because she just peed. She will NOT go in her kennel she'll raise the roof.

You really have to be watching and be able to judge signals. And it's a fine line not to subvert your training in any way. I also base this times I've misjudged and said you can NOT need to go out again-you’re just trying to go out and sight see or get out of the crate. She is very insistent and clear like when she has diarrhea-bless her little heart she's holding it and telling me.

I would leave her out now in a limited area but I'm sure she and big dog would wrestle the entire time and run into walls and scratch cabinets with collars etc. She also might jump on the couch whilst wrestling and scratch the heck out of it. Start small with the kitchen or laundry or a cleanable floor area and separate them if you need to. Start the times very low like 5-15 mins and work up. It's more of a feeling than an age for me. A video camera is very neat and fun for this purpose. Our 3yo I left in the house at about a year gated in the kitchen and she never potty'd in the house. She got more room as she got older.

I wish I had a good kitchen here to gate off but the openings are all huge and I couldn't securely gate it. Any smaller area is a good starting place then they sort of build trust with me. I've been lucky and trusted all of them by 18 mos max. One dog as she aged she became incontinent so she went back to the kitchen gated with the other two in the rest of the house.

There are several reasons that crates can still be needed. Puppy doesn't destroy anything or chew it and I don't think she would potty. Wrestling though most def. LOL Oh and do be careful and boring and out/right back in with the bell. If they think they can go outside and mess around they'll abuse the bell and make you nuts. Mine have all tried that little trick.

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[snooks]

add to that the step toward me-maybe just one at first and whisk outside.

Potty outside isn't really natural since puppies are used to going in the whelping pen and mom cleans up. So all of this is new to them. I do a little different spin since I have a 3 story house I may not hear bells or a bark at the door. So I started when puppy went to the door or gave some signs for her to come toward me...just a step at first is okay esp if there is a hurry element. Then we increased that distance and I independently with a clicker trained paw knee. So when she comes to me and touches my knee with a paw that is the signal to potty. That way I can be upstairs or in the basement and she'll come find me. She doesn't have full run of the house yet-just the main floor but I feel comfortable enough that I can take a short nap and she'll come paw me on the couch to go outside.

In answer to teaching the bell you can teach them to touch the bell with their paws on the floor with click/treat. And ask them to do it EVERY time the go by it on the way out the door. Then hang on the door and ask to touch every time. Finally it will click if they touch bell they get to go outside. Just watch for bell abuse. I got that with the easy button. When they wanted to go out and putz around they would hit it over and over. So they go out get about 60 seconds for potty and come back in-no treats but calm for no potty. That way there is no chance they will get the idea that it's fun and a romp.
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I trained my dogs to come find me and touch me with a paw in this big house or if I'm sleeping I need a tactile reminder. and when we go I say OUTSIDE?? Sometimes my 2 yo still goes to the door and or whines at the door. I don't move-I ask after a few seconds OUTSIDE? and now that I know she can and will hold it reinforce EVERY time that she comes and touches my knee--when she does GOOD GIRL YAY maybe a treat and ALWAYS right away very happy outside.

With a combo of targeting and touch with paw or nose and one step toward u if that's all u manage and build on that to two steps and be ready with a treat. Mark that behavior toward you even on step with a verbal cue YES or a clicker (markers ALWAYS mean a treat) and meaty wonderful ones inspire more learning just like $100 bills inspire more interest than $1 bills.

Good books Patricia McConnell "Way to GO" and Puppy Primer
Trish King "How to Parent your Puppy"

And yes start at potty 101 as if a puppy no matter what the age

big hint - watched puppies don't potty in the house-that is the human's fault. learn to see those cues better and ask earlier when there is time OUTSIDE?? If you can't watch tether your dog to you or crate them. This works with perfect success on my last several dogs. If you eliminate all possibility of failure and set ur dog up to succeed only he will.
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Last a post with nice contributions-i put a lot of other people's posts into one grand slammer. thanks to the contributors.

As you can tell ur not alone and this is an often discussed topic. Some of us have come upon perfect solutions for us and our unique dogs/lives. Take what works and be willing to try more than one thing. Set up for success is the most important---after a good cleaning with proper cleaners for smell removal by that door-it will tempt marking YEARS after if you don't.

see my post on cleaning THIS IS CRITICAL
http://www.dogtrickacademy.com/members/forum/puppies/2076-new-here.html

if you u prefer a bark or a bell teach that behavior FIRST and backchain it. meaning start at the last behavior you want like teach potty on command by repeating a cue over and over WHILE dog is peeing-reward and praise handsomely. I use Hurry UP! for pee and poop some people have separate cues but I've never needed them. then teach ring the bell or touch ur knee, then come and when you get an individual single thing down start combining them and touch my knee. You can teach all these things at once separately - dogs can learn several different behaviors at once like sit, stay, down, rollover i taught all at once with my puppies. just do 1-4 repetitions and keep it short and interesting. quit while the dog wants more and don't insist on each item being totally perfect before u try chaining a bit. go slow so u can give out lots of pay offs (treats - fav toys) this is not a time to be stingy or demand 6 chained tasks to perfection be4 pay off.

Give it a name like POTTY? OUTSIDE? when the dog isn't in peril of peeing. watch those cues that he needs to go EARLIER and ask OUTSIDE? EARLIER. If ur dog just glances at u when u ask that's enough at first for a mark and reward. run outside to reward more. teach potty on command by repeating a cue over and over WHILE dog is peeing-reward and praise handsomely. I use Hurry UP! for pee and poop some people have separate cues but I've never needed them. little by little add a turn toward u then 1 step, then 2, work up to running backward and enticing a bit of chase to u or target ur hand and treat and go out. pretty soon u'll have a dog that finds u and does what u like to ask and u should always praise and GO THEN to reinforce all ur and ur dog's work.

last two ideas don't free feed-feed 2 times a or an adult or 3+ for a tiny puppy and get on a strict schedule of exercise,eat, bedtime. if u do you will be able to predict soon with great accuracy WHEN ur dog needs to go and anticipate them.

don't ever forget to check the vet for the chance there is a medical problem like a urinary tract infection FIRST. if ur pup has no medical reason for this the forge ahead.

best of luck - let us know how it goes