Working

Discussion in 'Dog Sports' started by johnny1609, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. johnny1609 Active Member

    didnt know where to put this, is there anyone on here that uses there dogs for hunting? is there any obedience/tricks that you have found useful in the field?

    johnny

  2. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Oh, there are some ppl here interested in hunting. Hope they spot this post!
    WELCOME!!

    What kind of dog do you have?
  3. johnny1609 Active Member

    A classically bred lurcher and my father has her parents and a bullx which I also work.
  4. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Ah, then i am guessing there is some sighthound in this dog, is that right? If so, beginning to teach a solid, "like a rock" recall to your puppy, is great idea.

    How old is your puppy? ohhhhhh, sorry, i see your other thread now. Only 7 weeks old! This is GREAT that you are already beginning training! YAY!!!

    so you will be also working on potty training, and stopping puppy biting right now, right?
  5. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    SORRY FOR DERAIL, but here are two super-short, quickie videos on potty training and biting: (pups removed from their mom and siblings so young, almost always are nippier pups, as they are missing out on all the lessons from their momma and littermates)








    BUT STAND BY, some hunter types will be along!!!!:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
  6. johnny1609 Active Member

    Fortunately enough I saw my mum train a staff pup who's mum rejected him, she had him potty trained by about 5 weeks. I have had her since last thurs and she has only having around 1 accident a day at the moment but she's getting very good. Iv almost stopped the nipping, that had to be almost instant with having a 7 month old daughter. Also unfortunately I'm unable to view the videos as I'm on phone.

    She is 51/64 sighthound and that consists of greyhound, whippet, deerhound and saluki but I learnt a long time ago that percentages mean nothing in regard to the dogs attitude, intelligence or biddability.
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  7. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    GREAT!!! I so agree, but those breeds you list are among the most difficult to have solid recall with, if not the MOST difficult to have solid recall with,
    but, you mentioned your family's other lurchers DO have solid recall, so that is great role model and encouragement for you with your lurcher!
    Amazing about the potty training!! wow! I did not think dogs even had the nerve endings req'd to master bladder control that soon! wow! To *my* ear, i couldnt' be more surprised, if you said your human baby had control over her bladder so young, as humans also have to develop the nerve endings to control their bladders before successful 'potty training' can really work.

    You are doing something right!
  8. johnny1609 Active Member

    She hasn't but I just taker her out every hour and during the night every 3 hours, even if that means waking her to get her to go toilet.

    As far as recall is concerned any lurcherman worth there salt has a dogthat is instant on recall and retrieves all automatically without having to be called.

    Pups mother posing, this little girl will bring back all rabbits alive which is great as I'm able to release any rabbits that appear pregnant or young.

    http://pbr152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/johnny1609/dogs/my dogs/HPNX0008.jpg
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  9. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    LOVELY DOG!! This dog sounds like he is going to have a marvelous life!

    yeah, i had a feeling, with the 7 week old puppy having no accidents, it is the owners who are trained, but still, very impressive that there are no accidents!!! wow! and wow!!

    and yes, i so agree, hunters with sighthounds who have marvelous recall are impressive indeed! I think your dog sounds like a very very lucky dog to have ended up with you!!!
  10. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    also fascinating your dog brings the bunnies back alive! wow....my dog always kills them, always. He will bring me tiny baby bunnies back alive, but adult bunnies he kills, and proudly delivers me the carcass(on his own, it's his idea, too, to bring home his kill) Buddy also kills and brings home all manner of wildlife he's killed, gophers, squirrels, hedgehogs, moles, small raccoons, whatever he can kill, he brings it home. I didn't train any of that, at all, and rather wish i knew how to stop it, really.

    ...i have no idea how one would even go about training the dog to bring back alive bunnies...wow. you must be good!!!!!!

    Can your family call off lurchers in mid chase? SEE, that is one thing i have sorely failed at training my dog to do, is stop the chase, and return to me. I wish i knew how to train that, but i dont' have regular access to running wildlife to work with him on this. I might see some every day, and then go a week without seeing one.
    I can't pick and choose when the deers run by.

    ANY other situation, ANY other distraction, even cats, i can call him back to me, but i have failed at being able to get him to STOP his chase after wildlife, even deers, and instead, return to me.
    He will eventually return to me, either carrying his dead bunny, or having lost the deer, but i can't call him off mid-chase. Can you?

    IF YOU KNOW HOW TO TEACH *THAT* TO A DOG, feel free to share!!!!!!
  11. johnny1609 Active Member

    I'm actually the lucky one as she is extremely well bred aswell as mogrels go.
    B
    As for teaching a dog to bring back animals alive you teach the dog to be soft mouthed the same as you would a gundog. But I didn't teach the dog, a lot of lurchers just do it naturally.

    Mid chase, well I can call off the bitch in the picture purely byshouting 'oi' but she tends to not just chase as I work her with no lead on so she runs when told to do so and is also stock broken to a good standard. To stop her mid chase teach the dog that these animals are out of bounds.

    Recall, well I won't accept poor recall and will even go as far as lunge rope to enforce recall
  12. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Johnny, i'm so jealous you CAN call off your dog mid-chase.


    How exactly, step by step, can i begin to teach Buddy "these animals are out of bounds"???


    AGain, i never know when i will see deers and bunnies, at all, so setting up exercises to work on, is just a matter of sheer luck, really, and i'll only have moments til the creatures leave.



    any and all tips would be greatly appreciated!!! What is a "lunge rope"?
  13. johnny1609 Active Member

    Please bear in mind it is gone 2am and I have been up since 4 am yesterday and I'm also on my mobile so there may be a few mistakes both spelling and grammatically.

    Firstly ill explain a lunge rope and how to use it as it can be beneficial in stock breaking, now I know technically deer and rabbit are not stock but the same principal applies.

    A lung rope is principally a long rope traditionally used in training horses, the principal is that the dog is on an extremely long rope that can be easily controlled to stop the dog and force recall when required.

    If using a lung rope for recall you put the dog on the lung rope and allow the dog to slowly walk away or trot, when the dog has reached a desired distance, use the word or noise you use for recall whilst pulling the dog in. Whilst pulling the dog in occasionally repeat the word, when you have got the dog to you praise! Continue to repeat this and it will become a habit. As you progress you will be able to decrease the times you say the word and even increase the distance you allow the dog to travel. Eventually you'll be able to just say the word once and the dog will just turn and recall. Once the dog is 100 percent every time you can remove the rope but it may be an idea to just drop the rope so that the dog still feels you can pull him back at any moment. You can gradually decrease the rope til the dog is eventually just got a normal lead attached before removing it when you feel ready.

    The best part of a lung rope is should a dog ignore you youure able to simply pull him in and praise.
  14. johnny1609 Active Member

    Stock breaking

    Now to start, take the dog you wish to break to an area with the animal you wish to break the dog to, for the purpose of this explanation I'm going to use sheep in a sheep field as it is what I break my dogs to but the principal is the same but with wild animals take the dog to an area in which you will see these animals and imply the same rules.

    So take the dog to the field and start to walk past the sheep without causing the sheep to startle and run. (This part is harder with wild animals so perhaps break to a domestic animal first). When the dog shows an interest in the sheep give a short sharp tug on the lead with a stern 'no', continue to do this on a regular basis without just walking backwards and forwards as this is just goading. Once you have got this stage sorted now put the dog on the lunge rope, allow the dog 10ft or so. Now should the dog show interest in the sheep again, short sharp tug and a stern 'no', follwed by your recal word and pulling the dog in. Gradually increase this distance til the dog is almost within reach of the animal should it choose to and the dog should eventually just accept the animal as out of bounds prey.
  15. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    hmmm.
    Interesting method of recall! My dog already does have pretty flawless recall, but only if deers or bunnies run by, will i be unable to call him off mid-chase.
    otherwise, we have recall down pat.
    I'm actually pretty darn proud of Buddy's recall, long distance, distractions, whatever, he comes running to me, full speed and smiling.

    That yanking and having dog associate sheep with your disapproval, might work, it is not what i'd call positive only training, imo. It's not how i'd desensitize a dog to anything at all, ever, but, i bet it might work. I have desensitized my dog to many things, but, not by yanking and scolding.

    That method doesn't work with all dogs. My dog is dog-aggressive, and your method as described would not reel my dog back in if he is focusing on another dog. I could spend years yanking on him, and sternly saying "no!" and he would not change an iota. That is eggggzactly what most ppl with aggressive dogs do, for the dog's entire life, and the dog never ever gets better. I can get Buddy back to me, even around dogs he hates, but your method doesn't work for that.

    I have zero idea, though, even if i decided to yank and intimidate my dog if he gets too close to an animal, how to apply that to bunnies and deers. Sheep, might indeed be easier, as they don't dart away with the same speed as bunnies and deers. You approach the sheep, instead of having sheep dart out in front of you in the woods.

    I have desensitized my dog to some horses down the street that he used to fear and react towards. (i just got Buddy calm, starting back where my dog WAS comfortable, and rewarded that, moved closer, rewarded that, and so on, no yanking, no scolding or sterness at all) My dog is now cool around horses. :D (well, my dog is cool around those 3 particular horses anyway, no idea if he might react to some other horses..no idea..)

    How do you apply this "yank and yell" method to fast running wildlife that you see only occasionally, now and then?

    My guy is like you, he will occasionally yank and yell "no" at my dog, when my dog lunges towards squirrels or bunnies. Well, he used to, he's pretty much realized it doesn't work for Buddy,
    and so my guy has quit, after years of that.
    doesn't work at all,
    not at all.
    Plus, overtime, my guy has changed his mind about yanking and loud voices for dogs.

    Any ideas for my problem with my dog chasing fast running bunnies and deers? which is not livestock, (cuz i did desensitize my dog to some horses down the street,:D but my dog still chases bunnies and deers):(

    Got any ideas on how to get my dog to stop mid-chase after bunnies and deers?
    I only ask, as i don't hear a whole bunch of ppl who say they know how to train this. I know very few, and our last dog, we could call him off a chase, :D although we weren't even very knowledgable back then about training dogs, we just got lucky with Toby. Toby would just came back even if chasing a bunny,
    but not this current dog Buddy, nope. I know some other dogs around here on dogtrickacademy, who also won't stop chasing prey in the middle of a chase. nope. They might be too shy to admit it, but, i know Buddy is not the only dog here who wont' come back if he is after prey.:ROFLMAO:

    Til we met Buddy, we did not realize, we can't call all dogs off of a chase in progress:eek: . who knew?

    If Buddy is off leash, and a bunny goes by, he's gone...he brings the dead bunny back to us.:rolleyes:

    Any ideas for bunnies? and deers zooming by?? Not slow moving livestock that we can approach, but suddenly appearing, zooming, fast moving wildlife?

    I've occasionally joked i'll buy some bunnies to train Buddy with!! :ROFLMAO: but i have no where to keep them and i don't know a thing about how to care for bunnies. And Buddy would still probably chase deer....:rolleyes:
  16. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    i guess at least i am glad, Buddy can not actually take down a deer successfully all by himself....i'm glad he is NOT dragging dead deers back to us.!!:ROFLMAO:
  17. johnny1609 Active Member

    I completely understand what your saying and it doesn't work all the time on adults.

    You say about positive only training, I wouldn't have been able to do that with the bullxs I was running due to there attitude.

    The lunge rope is a strange method but does work as a last resort especially on adult dogs.
  18. johnny1609 Active Member

    You said about deer, that little bitch in the pic is only 35lbs and will take deer by herself
  19. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    I am assuming, since you use the word "lurcher", that you are in UK? Deers where i live are generally larger than deers in UK. (No idea why, but most members on DTA don't put what country they live in.) And usually, Buddy is chasing them through very thick, heavy woodlands, the kind you can barely even walk through.. not fields.
    who knows, maybe Buddy is killing the deers, and is unable to drag them home. We never follow him to get the deer, if he kills it. But i doubt Buddy kills the deer.

    Again, i am GLAD my dog is not dragging dead deers back home to me! *I* do NOT want a pile of dead deers in my yard, i really don't, i am not kidding!:ROFLMAO: The pile of bunnies is bad enough!
    If Buddy was dragging me home dead deers, i'd be asking you for help to train him to quit it!!:ROFLMAO:

    There are puppies that yanking and yelling don't work on, either. We rarely go a week around here, without some puppy owner joining DTA, and complaining how yelling and yanking are NOT working to stop his puppy from doing this or that unwanted behavior, and what should they do? They always seem surprised that weeks and months of yelling and yanking didn't work.

    And there are many ways to approach teaching a dog or puppy, what we DO want them to do instead. Hope you stick around, i think your dogs sound like they have wonderful, action-filled lives. Way too many dogs are asked to be "couch-potatoes", which is sad. And there are some other hunters around here,:D so sooner or later, i'm sure they will notice you here. If i spot a thread on hunting dogs, i'll send it to you.

    If you ever do think up any ways to help me get my dog to stop chasing bunnies and deers in mid-chase, i'm all ears!! Hope you enjoy DogTrickAcademy as much as i do!!
  20. running_dog Honored Member

    I tried those methods to train my dog with both stock and deer. For my dog these work (more or less) with the former and not with the later. Even with the stock I'm not as confident with his steadiness as I am with his slowly developing steadiness with deer. To maintain that stock steadiness I feel I have to constantly continue the negatives. The stock have not become part of the furniture as I hope one day the deer will.

    What I am working towards is being able to recall my dog when he has commenced chasing... I am only at a stage when I can recall him when he is hyped up and running on the scent of a deer and he also tends to "check in" with me before he takes off.

    ANY negative to my dog confirms that he would sooner be elsewhere and chasing - maybe it is because he is 1/4 saluki and very averse to negatives. 100% positive desensitisation has worked wonders - last time we were training with a frisbee on open land his attention wandered slightly, I looked to see what he was watching and saw a herd :eek: of deer had walked into full view. I was able to quickly but calmly leash him and carry on training. No dodging past me, no lunging, no yelping at the end of the lead, no panic like the last 4 years of using the methods you describe. I agree your methods will work for some dogs but assuredly not mine :ROFLMAO:.

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