Discussion in 'Dog Health' started by Anneke, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. Anneke Honored Member

    I was wondering...
    I have been hearing a few of you say, you can't take your pups out on walks, because they haven't had their shots yet.
    Why is that??
    Over here in the Netherlands, pups get their first shot at 5-6 weeks, second at 8-10 weeks and the last one at 11-12 weeks.
    And yes, the vet says to be carefull with interaction with other dogs, but when the mother has been properly vaccinated, the pup will have resistance to most common diseases, besides the fact he has had his vaccinations. They will advise not to take the puppy to a place where a lot of dogs do their business.
    I got Jinx when she was 7,5 weeks old, she had one shot and got her last two shots with me. But I took her to the dogschool 3 days after I got her. Ofcourse all the dogs that come to the dogschool have to have their vaccinations every year, so it's pretty safe.
    But I have been taking her along with me everywhere I go from the moment I got her.
    Our vaccination is for Parvo and Weil(leptospirosis), para-influenza(kennel cough) and Hepatitis Contagiosa Canis(lever disease)
    They get this every year. In addition I have the rabies shot given too, because we sometimes travel to Germany and there is still rabies out there. Not here in Holland.
    I don't now of anyone out here, who doesn't take their pups out, because of not having their shots.
    So this is why I was wondering, what is so different over there? The only thing I can come up with is maybe the risk of Parvo?
    We hardly have that here anymore, because everyone has their dogs vaccinated.

  2. TiflovesBCs Experienced Member

    We had to have 2 injections at 8 and 10 weeks i think so couldn't put her down till she was 12 weeks i think. You can take them out just not set them down i think incase there have been any unvaccinated or whatever dogs about i think
  3. southerngirl Honored Member

    Honestly one of Missy's puppies that we kept never got his shots. I had never heard of parvo or anything like that except rabies. He went with us to the ball park everyday from the time he turned eight weeks. He never got sick or any diseases from going out. The only shot my mom says she's ever gotten for out dogs is rabies. We also took her other puppies out in public once they were eight weeks old, none of them got anything. Once again me nor my mom new about getting puppies shots before they were taken out in public.
  4. whipple Well-Known Member

    I would feel safe if the pup was still nursing from mum when he got the first shot. But if I didn't know or I knew he was weaned before that first short I would wait a bit before going anywhere with lots of dogs. I've had a pup get parvo, and its not pretty and not something I would ever want to see a dog get. I've also dealt with kennel cough/bordetella, and not nearly as bad, but still annoying to deal with and treat.
  5. charmedwolf Moderator

    For our puppies we give them a 5 way vaccine at 6 weeks and again at 9 weeks. Rabies, Lyme and Bordetella at 15 weeks. I give all the vaccines myself besides the rabies.

    Personally, I take my puppies out around my property(I live on a BIG nursery) for walks and to places I know dogs have not gone in a while. As long as they aren't around other sick dogs there isn't much of a concern for the puppies getting sick. However, if I do take puppies out to say the pet store or the vets they don't touch the ground. This is because parvo (highly highly contagious) is often found living on the floor of these locations.
  6. Anneke Honored Member

    Ok, so I understand Parvo is a big risk over there.
    I was just wondering about it, since I do think it is so important for a pup to go through all kinds of situations, as socialising at the age between 7 and 15 weeks is so much easier, than when they are older.
    If we had a big Parvo risk, here, I guess I would not take my pup out eather.
    Funny how different the world is across the big pond;)
    Just trying to understand how life with a dog is on the other side of the world;)
  7. Adrianna & Calvin Experienced Member

    This is an old post but I think the info is always relevant ...

    It's true that a mother who has been vaccinated or naturally (previously) exposed to a disease should pass on resistance to nursing offspring. Unfortunately, that resistance wanes, and the pup will be susceptible to disease. Also unfortunately, we can vaccinate a pup but the vaccine won't be effective until the resistance from the mum wanes. While the pup has antibodies from the mum, there is no need for him/her to make their own antibodies (the point of vaccination). This is why vaccinations are repeated for puppies, and why there is a risk even when you're vaccinating a pup who has properly nursed. The general rule is that by 12 weeks, maternal antibodies should be gone so vaccinations done then should 'take.' Of course, maternal antibodies could wane before that, leaving the puppy unprotected, which is why vaccination is done earlier as well!

    Parvo and distemper are both quite contagious. When you hear of people who never vaccinate their dogs and they never get sick, it's because of 'herd immunity' -- everyone else is properly vaccinating their animals so it's not in the environment i.e. their dog's health is dependent upon everyone else having done the vaccines. With some people turning against vaccines here in the US, some adult animals (never vaccinated) sometimes come down with 'puppy' illnesses like parvo and distemper.
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  8. jackienmutts Honored Member

    Several years ago, a friend adopted a puppy from ? (I believe someone in her neighborhood), and within a few days of bringing their new puppy home, it died. Pups had not had any shots, and she found out later that sev in the litter also died (yes, parvo - and the puppies had not been out of the backyard/house). The GS rescue I deal with takes in way too many puppies with parvo - some make it, and sadly some don't. I almost feel like people who don't vaccinate their puppies are living 'lucky' - I've seen way too many go the other way.
    tigerlily46514 likes this.
  9. Pawtential Unleashed Experienced Member

    I am going to play a bit of trainers Devils Advocate here.

    As a trainer I see far too many undersocialized, reactive, aggressive or scared witless dogs every day. Key socialization happens during those crucial weeks and I have too many people that their vet has said until the puppy has had all their shots - including Rabies [which depending on the vet can be 4-6 months of age] - DO NOT let them outside the house. 6 months of no housetraining, no meeting other people or dogs and then they wonder why they have such issues when they then try to take them to a dog park [another pet peeve but I will not derail here].

    Even fully vaccinated adults can get Parvo.
    Parvo can be brought into your house simply from you walking - without your puppy - through an area that has it and you CAN bring it back on your shoes. It can live in the soil for months and sometimes years in the right conditions.
    Someone else can track it in from their house or kennel.
    Taking your pup TO THE VET for Parvo shots puts them in direct contact with the airborn pathogens of all the other sick pups who have been there no matter how much they bleach. [My vet has a separate entrance for Parvo/Distemper cases but some vets - especially in more urban areas - just have people walk in with a dog vomiting or having diarrhea and without a clue and then the dog does one or both on the floor there.]

    I fully believe that keeping your dog inside for those key weeks does more harm than good. By all means vaccinate - but sequestering your dog until they are 4-6 months old is asking for trouble.

    Petco does not have a vet clinic - so the odds of someone walking in with a sick dog are very small. You don't bring your sick dog to buy dog food. I am not saying any of the above tracking scenarios cannot happen - but in general we are much less risk than say Petsmart who has Banfield [vet] and who when Knoxx was younger, met us at the door with a big "Get out now - we have had Parvo puppies in today" panic.

    Of course be careful...
    Of course use common sense as to when and where to take your pup...
    Use places like farm and feed stores for socialization [Southern States/Tractor Supply allow dogs in with NO problems]
    Create a puppy play group for pups that you know are vaccinated and have everyone either spray bleach on their shoes before coming in or better yet leave the shoes outside.

    But for me - especially with breeds that are known to be aloof if not reactive with people or other animals - missing those crucial weeks is something I wouldn't do.

    Just my 2 cents!
    Mr-Remington likes this.
  10. jackienmutts Honored Member

    Lisa, I absolutely agree with you. I walk a dog a few times a week who's doing fine now, but had a rocky start due to the scenario you described above. Until almost 4 mos old, they didn't want her out of the house, meeting any other dogs, etc. She had her shots - "but the vet said....". Umm, yeah - cuz a vet book said that 30 yrs ago (or something). I referred her ASAP to our training facility, which has puppy preschool, puppy kindergarten, etc ... classes. Puppies are carried in, the floor is always cleaned in prep for the puppies, there's a potty yard only for puppies, etc - couldn't be better. And yet - they still wanted to wait. When they finally took their pup in to class, she was terrified and spent the next several weeks under the chairs. Sad. She's healthy, tho. :confused: Lots of hard work, loads of socialization ... and 8 mos later, and she's a very well-adjusted dog. My last puppies (~15 yrs ago - I've adopted adult dogs since) were out and about (maybe 10 wks or so) really soon, play dates with other puppies, etc -- and they did great (yes, vaccinated).

    It's interesting hearing about what diseases are - and aren't - prevalent/vaccinated for in different countries, tho. That's what's great about this forum -- great place to learn.
  11. Pawtential Unleashed Experienced Member

    When I lived in New Zealand [Jan 1998-May 2010] - Parvo was not that widespread, rabies does not exist and many rural people do not vaccinate.

    There is a great little PDF about NZ dog issues I have attached just as a bit of info:

    Attached Files:

  12. Anneke Honored Member

    That is exacly what I mean! Pups get the wrong start in life, when you keep them away from everything.
    Ofcourse, like I said, parvo and rabies are rare here, so there isn't as much danger to take them out. The vet does suggest not to take them to the dogpark, or places where a lot of dogs do their business, to be carefull with that.

    It is so much harder to train a 5-6 month old to be social and not afraid, then a 10 week old pup.

    I find this interesting too, since there is so much difference in people, climates and diseases.;)
  13. Adrianna & Calvin Experienced Member

    The American Veterinary Society for Animal Behavior agrees that socialization should start before the puppy series is finished. Click here and scroll down.
  14. Pawtential Unleashed Experienced Member

    I have a copy of this I give out to people feeling like they should wait but I wish vets were more on board...

    Lets Go!
    Mr-Remington and Dogster like this.

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