Some Suggestions Please... :)

Discussion in 'Obedience Training' started by blacknym, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. blacknym Experienced Member

    HI all,

    I am teaching Deja the differant positions around my body for example...

    heel position
    side position
    front position
    and behind me.

    she gets it pretty well. when I give her the cue she goes where she needs comes the hiccup..

    If I am standing in the center of the clock (for a visual) when she comes to front she sits at a huge angle. At times she is 9 and 3! lol. I have tried using high value treats but she keeps thinking what she is doing is enough...I end up having to lure her into the right position so she gets the treat. She used to do this squarely and has now decided differantly. :p

    Any suggestions on how I can get her in front of me squarely...?

    MaryK and brodys_mom like this.

  2. brody_smom Experienced Member

    I have this same problem with Brody when I am working on "get in". He gets where he's supposed to be, in general, but I want him tight to my left leg, looking straight ahead, or up at me. He prefers to sit about a foot away, and angled towards me. Even with a lure, he seems to have a problems getting in that close.
    MaryK likes this.
  3. blacknym Experienced Member

    I was thinking I could use a couple of cones and put them in front of me...then she has to position herself between them. Hummm....i wonder if that will work...

    You might be able to do that to Brodysmom. just put the cone at the spot to your side that gives him the amount of room to move in and see if that helps guide him closer.
    MaryK and brodys_mom like this.
  4. Mutt Experienced Member

    Try a target mat (which is placed correctly and not too big) or blocking the way (giving her no choice but to sit correctly).
    Dlilly, MaryK, Mr-Remington and 3 others like this.
  5. jackienmutts Honored Member

    Good advice from Mutt, that's what I was going to suggest - some kind of small mat or small rug, placed exactly where you want her to sit. If you have to fold a little rug in 1/2, or cut a mat down, don't give her a lot of room, just something to sit on (something for her butt to target), exactly where you want her - then just keep practicing with "it" right there, til you're sure she's got it.
    MaryK, blacknym and brodys_mom like this.
  6. brody_smom Experienced Member

    I will try this. So similar to teaching "go to your mat" I would c/t for contact with the mat, then raise the criteria slowly until he has himself right where I want him. I think I can do this! Thanks.
    MaryK likes this.
  7. 648117 Honored Member

    I have a couple of suggestions:

    1) Where do you have the treats?

    - if your treat bag is on the right then it is likely that Deja is orientating herself towards where she knows the treats are. If this is the case then you could try having treats in both hands before she gets in front of you and then alternating which hand you feed her from while trying to feed directly in front of you. Try to make sure you are twisting your hand upwards to give the treat rather than delivering the treat under your hand (it that makes sense) to help keep in centered. A lot of the dogs in our class had problems with this.

    2) How close in front of you do you want Deja?

    - Holly can do "front" for obedience, but she might do it closer than what you are wanting. Holly is so close that her head and chest are nearly between my legs (her head is at my knees, some of the big dogs in our class pretty much have their chins on their owners belly). Because she is so close (and is a small dog) she can use my feet as a guide to sit straight. I have my feet Holly-width apart so it is harder for her to sit wonky. How I taught this was I at first was sitting and lured her between my knees and then slowly started to stand so she would slowly get used to sitting so close (a lot of dogs are uncomfortable with this because you are basically standing over them).

    Hope that helps :)
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  8. 648117 Honored Member

    I had already taught Holly before we were shown in class so I'll quickly explain my method then the class method, the method I used probably wont work for all (most) dogs. But all I did was use a hand target facing backwards right next to my leg so she had to be pressed against my leg to hit the target and she got the treat. Maybe Holly's size helped with this, she was about 4 months old at the time and because of her general small size she had to sit right next to me to do the required hand target.

    Anyway, next I'll explain how our trainer taught it (this method will probably work better).
    It uses luring at first.
    So, if the dog is sitting/standing/whatever in front of you then you have a treat in your left hand and lure the dog towards you and back while stepping your left leg back. So if someone is standing to your right looking at the side of you your legs will look like: /l
    With the "l" being your right (straight) leg and the "/" being your left (stepped back) leg.
    So then as you bring your left leg forwards to meet your right leg you lure the dog at the same time then lure/cue into a sit when your legs meet. The dog basically walks in a "U" shape and should end up tight against your left leg.
    Once the dog understands you can fade the treat, then fade the stepping back and practice with the dog having to find "get in" from different places around you.
    I think the stepping back helps to teach them that they need to be straight by giving them a bit of a guide.
    Hopefully you understand that, I'm not very good at clearly explaining things.

    Hope that helps :)
    MissyBC, MaryK and brodys_mom like this.
  9. blacknym Experienced Member

    This is all great info! Thank you so much for all you suggestions so far.

    I have the habit of delivering food from different angles and hands so don't think it is the food delivery.

    I went right back to the beginning tonight. To make sure she sat straight I placed two cones in front of me with a small space for her to walk through. I put her in heel position and used a new hand signal. She did very well. I'm hoping this works. If not ill will for sure use some of the suggestions given. :D
    MaryK likes this.
  10. brody_smom Experienced Member

    The second method is the one I used. I think I got it from YouTube, not sure who the trainer was. It works for getting him to the general position, but once he parks himself, he is about a foot away, and angled , not straight and next to my leg where I want him. I plan on using the target mat technique later today, so I'll update on how that works. He was pretty quick to learn to target his "spot", so hopefully this will come easily as well.
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  11. brody_smom Experienced Member

    Okay, I worked on this for a bit yesterday. Brody was really having an off day, training wise. I have been trying Jean Cotes suggestion of playing a little tug to get him in the "peak zone". He mouthed my hand almost right away, so "game over". Wait a few minutes. Try again. Same thing. Wait a few minutes. Moved on to training once he was a little excited, but not too much. Tried luring him to "get in" with a folded up rug beside my left foot. He was hit and miss. I realized I hadn't started by making him aware of the mat, so I unfolded it and tried with c/t for showing interest, then touching, etc. I think he generalized a little and then just started lying down on it, as if it was his spot. Not a bad thing, except that I just want him to sit on it. He wouldn't just lay down in a ready position, but with legs out to the side, more of a settle. Sigh. Maybe a little more tug next time?
    MaryK likes this.
  12. blacknym Experienced Member

    I would suggest playing with the mat. What i mean is to do trainings on the matt. For example....

    Sits, downs, stands and stays. Have him target with nose and feet. This way he will get the idea that he can do more then just lay down on it. :D Then you can have him use it a target matt and he will know to go there when you ask and be understanding of your wanting him to move in different positions on the matt.
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  13. brody_smom Experienced Member

    Worth a try!
    MaryK likes this.
  14. blacknym Experienced Member

    Let me know how it goes! :)
    MaryK likes this.
  15. ackerleynelson Well-Known Member

    I tried your idea Mutt and it is really good. Thanks a lot for sharing this wonderful idea..:)
    MaryK and Mutt like this.
  16. Mutt Experienced Member

    Glad it worked for your dog :)
    MaryK likes this.
  17. MaryK Honored Member

    Came onto this thread a bit late. Very good and useful tips, I too have an 'angle boy' and blocking with a small target mat did the trick. He's almost there, was getting good until he got sick, so hopefully he'll remember all he's learned when he's better.
    Mutt likes this.
  18. blacknym Experienced Member

    I've been using cones and a target Matt...down to the Matt now. It is the size of a face cloth. :) she is getting the idea to be square when she comes front... And to be straight in heel and side when doing stand/down and sit. :) we are slowly but surely getting there. :)
  19. brody_smom Experienced Member

    I am getting frustrated with the mat. He only ever wants to lie down on it. If I don't click/treat for lying down, he will sit and bark at me, or just relax on it, which is good because that is something we have been working on for his reactivity, but bad, because now I can never use a mat for anything else. If I call him off the mat and move it around, he starts pawing at it, or picking it up and walking away. He did the same thing with a small plate I was trying to teach him to target for nose work. As long as I was holding the plate in my hand, he would touch it with his nose. Once I put it on the floor, he would paw at it, flip it over, bite it, etc.
  20. blacknym Experienced Member

    Are you using the same matt for training as he uses for relaxation? if so try a differant matt for training or something completely diff like a wash cloth. LOL

    When he starts playing with the items stop the session. even if he has only done it once. try again later. :hugs i know its fruetrating.
    southerngirl likes this.

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