Discussion in 'General Dog Training' started by tigerlily46514, Jul 13, 2009.

  1. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    My neighbor has an adorable dog, Jive. Jive zooms around our yard, or wherever he is, when she wants to put his leash on him to take him home. Jive is incredibley fast runner, takes her about 20 minutes on average to corral him and get his leash on. (Jive knows what she wants, and ducks his head away if she attempts to grab his collar.)

    It utrns into big game of chase. JIve loves this game. JIve also has no recall whatsoever, i've got threads on that recall. Jive won't be lured by any treat or toy to get near that leash...

    Any tips? Besides the recall training, I offered to help her teach Jive the leash is a good thing.

    Here's my plan, but i've never had this problem, so i wanna hear from anybody with ideas!!

    I told her i'd start with a brand new leash. In the house, put it on him, give him treats PRAISE, and play with him, and take it off after 5 minutes.

    I'd do this several times a day, every day, lengthening the on leash time, so he thinks "This leash is best part of my day!"

    I'd then put him outside in fenced yard, and lure him with treats, put leash on for 5 mnutes, take it off, lengthening the time the leash is on, and while it is on, tons of praise, treats, playtimes.
    What do you think so far? Or should we use a long rope to keep him somewhat corralled?

    What should we do if JIve won't come over when he sees the leash? This run-from-the- leash is pretty ingrained in him, even if we get his recall going, the sight of the leash sets him running.

  2. fickla Experienced Member

    I personally don't know if I would let my dog off leash, even in a secure area, if he wouldn't come back to me. Jive gets reinforced whenever he's over at your house with a really fun game of keep away, and if she does nothing it's only going to get worse and worse. So one option is simply keeping him on a long 30ft line so you can easily stop the game of chase. Whether you do that or not, here are some other ideas:

    1. Like you mentioned, the dog has to learn a really good recall. Start over with a brand new word, and also introduce hand targeting.

    2. Gotcha game. In the house, simply grab collar, give treat, release. Teach the dog that a collar grab is a good thing, whether the leash is on or not.

    3. Stop reinforcing the zoomies. This likely entails the 30ft rope. It also means that when she needs to get Jive she never ever runs and never does a quick grab when she thinks she can reach him. This does mean lots of patience and determination. Walk down the dog. With out showing any anger, walk and walk and walk after Jive. At first it's fun, he thinks you're playing a game, but soon it stops being fun as you do not chase him but just slowly walk. It may still take 20 minutes the first tim you do it, but eventually Jive will realize you mean business and let you catch him. But you need to do this until he completly gives up, if he's running and you manage to do a quick grab this does not count, I want walking after the dog until he lies down/sits.

    4. I also reccommend teaching him that the leash is not the end of playtime. So when you finally do get Jive, clip leash on, give treat, unclip leash and let him play again. Repeat often. It may also help to do some training with the leash on, and then while training casually drop the leash and continue on as if nothing happened. With a dog who is really leash wise, you may need to practice unclippling the leash and dropping a ton of treats to prevent the dog fro immediatley running off, the do a few quick training things and then YOU release the dog to play.
  3. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    Also, rather than treating ON the leash in the house, teach him to come to the leash. Sit the leash down, any curiousity, any interest towards it, click and treat. Continue this for quite a while until he's consistently pawing it, nosing it, whatever, so long as he understands leash contact=TREATS! With this method he learns that going to the leash is a WONDERFUL thing! Granted, this will not give you immediate results with leash in hand.

    Agree with everything Fickla mentioned. Definitely must learn some form of recall. This can be a REALLY fun game. Stand with dog between the two of you and a favorite toy or awesome treat. Owner: Jive, come! GOOD BOY, fun and play. You: Jive, come! GOOD BOY, fun and play. Owner: Jive, come! And so on. Expand to a couple more people so he learns not to just bounce from one person to another, and keep working on it. Increase the distance between the two of you gradually. It becomes a fun relay type game that he'll really enjoy. Plus, it's a great introductory to getting him to come even though he's having fun. He may be having fun with his owner, but there's fun with you too! And vice versa. Anytime someone calls him, it's fun! Also, enthusiastic voices, not angry voices. Kneel and smooch or run away from him/past him, not AFTER him with an angry posture. If you run away from him he is likely to want to chase after you. Just keep doing it until he'll let you play with him and then get him. Gotcha game will definitely come in handy. If he's not chasing you, run PAST him so he definitely sees you and then he's like, "Wait, she's not chasing me. Where's she going???? Hey, this isn't how the game goes!"

    Hope this helps.
  4. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! Ha, did i mention JIve is mostly greyhound? Is interesting greyhound/pug mix, (PLUS SOME other breed, it's got webbed feet,) if you can picture a greyhound with a pug tail and facial wrinkles. Was reading up, that greyhounds may be a lil harder to train recall in than some breeds...
    Sidenote, Buddy was so malnourished and underweight and decrepit when we first got him...after months of good food and excercize, he was building up his strength and stamina.
    BUT, i tell ya, when he ever first started playing with Jive, he could not keep up. He used to be outa gas and even breathless in 10 minutes...

    BUT after months of regularly chasing Jive all over the yard, Buddy is SOOOo gaining stamina and strength. Buddy does and will stop and rest himself when he runs outa gas. Over time, Buddy has increased his stamina remarkabley!!
    (JIve, btw, never ever ever runs outa gas, ever.)

    We had a 3rd, new dog in on the dog play date, he tried to run around with those two, but this 3rd dog ran outa gas in less than 10 minutes, i said, "That is just how buddy usta be. JIve has built Buddy up in stamina over time."

    Buddy can now keep up with Jive for almost 30 minutes, with only brief rest sessions in that 30 minutes!!!!!. Stunning. And after some rest, Buddy is back up and after Jive again. Off and on for hours!! Buddy doesn't do this with all dog playmates, sometimes it is way more quieter type play, BUT, with Jive, he does, cuz JIve never ever stops running, nope, and Jive makes it clear he WANTS Buddy to chase him. Is hilarious to watch.

    I tell ya, nothing i can do with Buddy provides the excercize another dog can. JIve is Buddy's fitness trainer!!

    Turns out, my neighbor is not as interested in putting in the work to teach Jive a solid recall as i had originally thought. She had sorta thought it'd be one or two lessons, and Jive would come when called.

    Plus, she has kids that kinda wanna get in on it, but being only kids, they break all the 'rules' of training a dog, they don't mean to, but they aren't using the same 'program', ha ha!!! so it'll be tough for her to train Jive to come when called.
    But, anyone reading this, if you wanna build up your dog's stamina, get him a greyhound pal to play with!!:msngiggle:
  5. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    Lol indeed sight hounds aren't that easy to train. Mudflap's stamina was built up already when I got her.....she lived with a foster family that had FIFTEEN BORDER COLLIES and a whole lotta land, lol. So she certainly has no stamina issues, lol!
  6. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Ha ha, guess not!! I just can't get over how much stronger Buddy is, he is since he has a dog to chase now. What a difference.

    15 border collies...mindboggling. What a sight that musta been....
  7. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    Lol, it was certainly a housefull. And all very well groomed, well cared for, and well behaved.

    Haha....with leather furniture. No carpet though, all tile in that house.
  8. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    these folks musta been really special, hard working, nonlazy, good-with-dogs folks!!

    I have carpet in my house, in most rooms. Once, Buddy started up a habit of scratching the carpet prior to flopping down onto it, when i realized it was making zigzag designs into the carpet, i caught him doing it, and i told him 'No, Buddy." and amazingly, he has never ever done that again. Is true!! That almost blows my mind.
    Of course, i only have ONE border collie, not fifteen!!!
    So many many things, i have only had to say "NO." ONCE. I think this is very unusual, and i rreeeeally appreciate it about Buddy, and feel so grateful he is co-operative about staying outa the trash, not eating shoes, not messing with some stuff that i don't want him to mess with, etc etc. I feel so lucky, and realize some folks really have to expend effort to get their dog to go along with some of their rules.
    With Buddy, so far, (except for pulling on the leash), i can't think of anything i haven't been able to get him to stop doing with only ONE "No" lucky am i?

    True enuff, though, it is a lot more work to get fur outa carpet than off tile!! I WISH I DID NOT HAVE CARPETTED STAIRS!! Is only place in whole house that seems like work to keep fur off of. Okay, i loathe vacuuming the stairs even without fur to get out, even before we ever got Buddy, i don't like vaccuuming the stairs...guess i gotta get some kinda new gizmo, this lugging the vaccuum up/down the stairs, while using the attachment hose, it just bites.

    And Buddy doesn't even shed much at all. Must be he only sheds while going up/down the carpetted stairs, ha ha!!
    Ha, we got one leather recliner, and Buddy has claimed it as HIS. So far, so good!! I feel i am SO LUCKY to have Buddy, he is just such a good lil fella!!

    Right now i am posting, to avoid going back and finishing removing wall paper...okay, BACK TO WORK..
  9. tigerlily46514 Honored Member

    Weirdest thing now...Buddy, who has AMAZINGLY good recall, has this week, developing bad habit of NOT coming when i say "buddy COME!" I am as stunned as i can be, don't know what to make of it!! Is this from playing with Jive who never comes (the fam did not invest any time into training Jive dispite my encouragment, so whatever, they continue to chase him and just yell come over and over while chasing jive)
    Or what is this that my Buddy, who had almost 100% recall, now doing? What happened? This has happened twice now, once in my back yard, another time, he was outside off leash. This is new, he's hasn't ignored a 'come' command in months and months, even when chasing bunnies or whatever, he would always freeze and return. NOw Buddy is trying to act like he didn't hear me!!? This is new! What happened?
    Even to this day, Buddy more often than not gets a treat for coming to me, praise at the very least.
    So do i have to start all over? I can't even tell you how shocked i am, how absolutely awesome his recall has been UP TO THIS WEEK...
  10. tx_cowgirl Honored Member

    If it's only happened twice, I'd keep an eye on it and see if this continues. I can definitely see how Jive's ignoring the come command could teach Buddy the same. With them yelling "Come, come, come, come..." it's desensitizing both dogs to the cue. But, like I said, just keep an eye on it. From now on you might call Buddy, then put him up while they chase around their dog.

    If it'd make you feel better, you can certainly have a training session on it. It never hurts to do a little work on the old stuff. I will pretty regularly work on just the basics, or challenge the basics, just to make sure they are indeed dead-set. With Zeke this is incredibly important because his recall is awful, simply because he can turn his drive on and off soooo quickly you have very little time to catch him before his ears turn off. So we do a looooot of work on come, with and without distractions.
    The Boxer pup I'm working with now already has a wonderful recall, but we're still working on it a lot to get it solid.

    You might also sound more excited when you call him away from Jive. Jive's an exciting dog! So be more exiting than him. Or have his favorite toy or an annoying squeaker to get his attention off of his fun.
  11. jackienmutts Honored Member

    Yeah, Buddy probably sees Jive having all this fun, why should he miss out? You may want to try some unbelievably good treats he usually never gets or has never had before and work a couple training sessions on 'come' with that, maybe chicken with garlic, liver, steak, something really good, not the same ol' same ol' (whatever it may be). Blow his mind, shake it up a little, up that treat ante, and then make him feel like the best dog in the whole world when he comes to you! And during his next play session with Jive, just during the session, call him over to you, give him one of those extra-special treats, and send him on his way back to play again. He may start remembering that even when he's playing with Jive, when mom calls, great stuff happens, I really need to go see what she wants, and it doesn't mean the end of playtime, either (altho sometimes it will be). Good idea to do like Tx Cowgirl said too - have his favorite squeaky toy or something handy, just more incentive. Just keep working with him, he'll be ok.

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