Info On Limited Vaccine Protocols

Discussion in 'Dog Health' started by sara, May 23, 2013.

  1. sara Moderator

    I was asked on another thread about this, so here it is :)

    Dr. Jean Dodds has been at the forefront of Vaccination research for dogs (google her name if you want info on her... there's a TON!. Here's her recommendations

    (read the comments after the blog post, and check out the links to her other blog posts... they will answer ALL your questions!)

    Here's a good article on limited vaccines that explains Titres and such, by a vet who recommends limited vaccination... It's a little more "layman" :)

    Personally, Mouse and Oliver dogs have not been vaccinated since they were 1 year old (they're 4.5 and 5 years old, respectively), and Boo has not been vaccinated since I adopted him 2.5 years ago, and he wont ever get another vaccine, as he's getting up there in age.

  2. 648117 Honored Member

    Thank you! :)

    I'll have a read of those links this weekend.
    I think Holly has been vaccinated against kennel cough, distemper, hepatitis and parvo-virus. I'll have a look in her puppy book when I have time, she's next due for vaccinations in January so it's a while away.

    I think the main thing that I worry about its Kennel Cough because at the end of last year our training club sent around an email saying a number of dogs at a competition had gotten Kennel Cough and for people to watch their dogs. Holly was obviously not at the competition so I didn't need to worry about her but it did get me thinking. When she got her vaccinations in January this year I asked the vet if Holly should have extra Kennel Cough vaccinations in the future when she goes to shows and they said no.
  3. sara Moderator

    I would never give Kennel Cough... It's like a flue shot, It only has 4 or 5 strains in it, but there are many more strains... No sense risking Vaccinosis for something they might get anyway, especially something that's not life-threatening. n And I definitely do not give more than one vaccine at a time. When I vaccinated my dogs, they got a parvo shot, then 2 weeks later a distemper shot. They have not been vaccinated (by me) for anything else. Those vaccination cocktails are dangerous.
  4. Linda A Experienced Member

    I have always done the series of puppy shots and then the one year booster. That's it! I have never had health issues with my dogs like so many others are having. While showing Royal I did keep up on annual Kennel Cough shots as a precaution. The only vaccine I do regularly is the rabies and only because it is required by law. As soon as Titers are accepted here that's what we will be doing.
  5. Dlilly Honored Member

    All my dogs get the 3 year rabies vaccine because it is the law and also I live in the country so it's better safe than sorry. That's about it.
  6. 648117 Honored Member

    Here's what Holly has had:
    8 weeks = Nobivac DHP (that's for Distemper, Hepatitis and Parvo)
    13 weeks (the day before we got her) = Nobivac DHP
    16 weeks = Nobivac DHP and Nobivac KC (that's for Kennel Cough)

    16 months (in January of this year) = Nobivac DHP and Nobivac KC

    We go to the same vet clinic as she went to before we got her.

    Last year she was sick and had to stay a night at the vets (she was around 10 months old, it was our usual clinic but a vet I hadn't met before) and I took her in on my own (her symptoms were walking away from her breakfast, being cuddly and generally quiter than a normal Holly is) and the vet kept asking me if she had been spayed when I assured him that she had been he kept saying she had Parvo, I assured him that she had been vaccinated and that it would be on her records (along with the fact that she had been speyed) but he kept saying she had Parvo (he wouldn't even look at the computer that was right next to him!) because she had a temp and there was a little blood on the thermometer.

    I started to get upset (Paris had passed only about a month before this and I was scared I would lose Holly too), he wouldn't believe that she didn't have Parvo and he started saying that he wanted to do these blood tests that would cost a lot and was I sure I wanted him to do them, I said "yes, do whatever is needed" and he kept repeating that it was expensive and was I sure that he should do the blood tests and I kept saying "yes, do them". I'm still not sure what he wanted me to say when he kept repeating how expensive the blood test were, they weren't cheap but they certainly weren't expensive enough to not do them if they were needed.
    When he finally started to get the blood it really upset Holly and even though she wasn't well she was strong enough to not let them take blood so they told me to leave the room so they could get the blood. It was such a horrible experience that I can't even imagine what it would be like if she actually had Parvo or if I hadn't vaccinated her when the vet was 'questioning' me. It still upsets me just thinking about it all.

    I'm glad I've never seen that vet again but it did make me want to understand more about what the vets are actually recommending and really made me appreciate that they are not always right.
    The vet we usually get (and who I ask for now) is much more knowledgable and seems to keep reasonably up to date with vet stuff. And he doesn't mind when I ask difficult questions that most dog owners probably don't even think about.
    I could ask him if they do titre testing at our clinic instead of going straight for the vaccination in January.
  7. jackienmutts Honored Member

    I also only give mine the 3-yr Rabies vaccine, as it's required to get their licenses.
  8. southerngirl Honored Member

    Missy and my cats get rabies shots every year, because my cats are outside cats and Missy goes places with me. Where I live if your dog were to get bit or bite someone and didn't have a rabies vaccination they would have to be quarantined. Plus there's a lot of wildlife where I live.
  9. charmedwolf Moderator

    I also only give Rabies every 3 years and even then my Vet sometimes gives me a waiver for them.

    Sara- What ages do you give your vaccines? It's was always debated in my family when we had puppies. We all agreed less is more but never at what age to give.

    On the Kennel Cough shot. Kennel Cough is like the flu and often the dogs that are vaccinated get it from my observations in a boarding kennel. You are always supposed to wait 3 weeks after getting the shot because your dog is contagious to others. It often isn't deadly, just annoying. Isis has gotten Kennel Cough once (She was given the shot when she lived with my brother) and it is beyond depressing seeing them sick and you unable to do anything.
  10. sara Moderator

    Well, I've never had a little puppy, but I would do 8 weeks then 12 weeks and then 1 year. My 2 that were still "puppies" were vaccinated at 6 months, then not again 'till they were 1.5 years... they haven't been vaccinated since. Their titres came back good at 4 years old, so I'm waiting until next year to titre them again.

    It is not law to vaccinate against rabies here, so I don't worry about it at all.
  11. sara Moderator

  12. southerngirl Honored Member

    I loved the article Sara, it was very informative. I got Missy her first distemper shot last year and after reading the article it will be her last one.
  13. southerngirl Honored Member

    I was talking to my mom today about it being unusual for Chase to have made it to 17 because his mom was a purebred Dalmatian and dad a purebred Labrador, or the other way around. She feels that it is because Chase didn't go to the vets and get loaded with shots year after year. He has only had a rabies shot once. The only times he's gone to the vets is when he was hit by a car, a motorcycle, and a motorcycle again. My mom feels that all these shots vets are wanting to give dogs is unnecessary and I agree. I feel it's the same with people my parents don't take us to the doctors every year for shots, I really don't get shots, because my parents don't think its healthy to have all those shots same with the dogs.
    sara likes this.
  14. sara Moderator

    Yes, however one has to be careful recommending that people dont vaccinate their pets (or their kids) especially, since eradicated diseases are starting to come back because we're no longer vaccinated against them... But, I personally don't choose to vaccinate my pets very often. Scout, Zoe and Boo haven't had a shot since they were 7 Mouse and Oliver haven't had one since they were 1... however I will likely vaccinate them again once more (at around 6-7 years old)
  15. southerngirl Honored Member

    Well I will continue to give Missy her rabies shot every year because if she were to get bitten or bite a animal or person without being vaccinated she would have to be quarantined. Rabies is the only shot my mom has ever gave for any of our dogs. We really can't afford a bunch of shots for them.
  16. sara Moderator

    Yeah, I'm lucky, Rabies shots aren't law here.
  17. Adrianna & Calvin Experienced Member

    Hi --

    Not Sarah, but I'd make sure to have the last shot around 16 weeks when you can be sure maternal antibodies are gone. The reason there is a puppy series is because we don't know when the antibodies from the mum will fade, and those antibodies interfere with the pup's response to the vaccine. For many pups, 12 weeks will be old enough, but for some, they may not make their own response till 16 weeks. Why do it sooner, then? Because we want to housetrain our puppies, and because even if we kept them inside/in a yard, we can (and do) track parvovirus in on our clothing and shoes. It can live for 3 years outside, even, depending on climate, so you can easily bring it home, and if you're unlucky enough to do so between the period of the mum's antibodies waning, and your dog having a vaccine and creating a response, then your puppy is out of luck. I have seen puppies die from parvo despite intensive and excellent veterinary care.

    This is untrue. The vaccine is of a non-pathogenic (non-disease causing) strain, and no one should be getting sick from it. For the intranasal vaccine, some dogs get nasal irritation from it and can snort afterwards, but if they do any 'shedding' it will be of the same, non-pathogenic strain. What often happens is that dogs are vaccinated then put into a kennel environment and get sick before they make an immune response to the vaccine, and everyone says either "the vaccine made them sick!" or "the vaccine is worthless!" due to this misunderstanding. There are many different things which can cause 'kennel cough' besides bordetella ("whooping cough" in humans), so sometimes the dogs are successfully vaccinated for this disease but get mycoplasma or influenza and the distinction isn't noticed.

    NYC has been struggling with a complex of respiratory diseases, inc. 'kennel cough' which have incubated in the city's shelter system and become drug-resistant. I live near a shelter, the dogs are walked outside, and vaccinated my dog because of that. It was about 2 years ago now, and I always debate re-doing it, but have just kept to a circuitous walk route so far ...

    I sparingly vaccinate my animals, taking their risk factors into account, and Calvin (who's gotten two DAPPV shots in his 3 years of life) will probably only be vaccinated twice more in his lifetime. He's at a high risk, given our proximity to 'unknown dogs' and my line of work, so I'll use common sense there. I think it's reasonable, and there is a scientific basis for this based on duration of immunity studies.

    ... However, I think that it is very easy for people to shout "it was the vaccines' fault!" over every little thing, and it's tiresome and has little scientific basis. Scare mongering like in the last article posted "If your dog is vaccinated yearly for distemper, then he will receive 14 unnecessary vaccinations in his life – if he’s lucky enough to survive those vaccinations for 12 years" is ridiculous IMO. The idea that 100% of animals can be vaccinated once and have 100% immunity is just as irresponsible. I've been vaccinated for rabies, and my first rabies vaccine didn't "take" -- I had my titer done a few years later and it was non-existent. I went about for those years considering myself vaccinated, but I was an initial "non-responder." The booster did work, as we checked this time by doing a titer 6 mos later. This happens with dogs and cats too. You can do titers on animals in the same family, year after year, and get varying results on different animals.

    I think in our collective history as mammals, vaccines have been an amazing, life-permitting discovery (see the eradication of smallpox and rinderpest! and reference the huge wave of dog deaths when parvo emerged 40 yrs ago) and I think exclamation-laden headlines on the deadliness of vaccines should be taken with a grain of salt.

    Also, re: the vets as greedy money grubbers, they make more off of titers than they do from vax :D

    As for Chase ;) he's proven he's a dog of steel, what with taking out 2 motorcycles and 1 car on his own! I think vaccines have zero to do with it--he's got the genes of a survivor.
    southerngirl likes this.
  18. Adrianna & Calvin Experienced Member

    PS Re: rabies. I used to shrug off the rabies requirement of indoor cats, and then a friend who had two raw-fed, never vaccinated, indoor-only cats found them wrangling a bat in her basement. I got my indoor cat 1 rabies shot, it'll be the only one in his lifetime (because unlike me, most people and animals respond the first time!) since the rabies vax is esp. long lasting. Animals can get rabies from killing a rabid animal, not just being bitten by one, and rabies is 100% fatal in cats and dogs. So even indoor cats get a single rabies vaccine if they pass through my hands.

    PPS For people interested in safer cat vaccines, check out the recombinant vaccines (PureVax) made by Merial.
    southerngirl likes this.
  19. southerngirl Honored Member

    Lol. I like that explanation, for know on when people ask how he's lived so long I'll just tell them that he's a dog of steel. Though the car did take away most of his use to one of his back legs, battle scars. Chase got his name because he would escape just to chase vehicles.

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