Dangerous Tricks

[moky adam]

I did a search and I was surprised that I couldn't find any information on dangerous tricks on this forum.

I just watched this video from a respected positive reinforcement trainer (this might relate to the tread posted earlier about AF vs Balanced)

First, Do you agree with what she is saying, or do you think she is being over protective?

I would also like to know from the people that agree, what tricks are dangerous for German Shepherds to perform?

She mentions in the video that all breeds are different, and I know hips should be looked out for, but is this in all GSDs? or just ones that have OFA hips less then ideal? She also talks about the risks in agility and I know a lot of people on this forum do agility, so I would very much like some input on that as well.

Thanks everyone for checking this out.

 

[southerngirl]

Here is what I said about this video on another thread.
Sure some tricks can be dangerous such as Frisbee tricks but things I do can be dangerous for me such as skateboarding but I still do it because I have fun. It's the same with the dog they have fun let's say flipping to catch a Frisbee are you going to prevent them from doing it just because they Could get hurt. Sure if your dog has bad hips they shouldn't be doing high impact tricks or if you have a dog with a long back it shouldn't be jumping. But I don't see a problem with a healthy dog Vaulting, jumping, or flipping. In order to have fun you risk getting hurt, just use your head when doing tricks with your dog so your dog doesn't get hurt. I do plan on doing parkour with Missy but not as extremely as TreT, because it's something Missy would enjoy and I would to.

 

[Linda A]

I'd have to say I agree with Emily. And no, I don't think she is being over protective. I think the idea of having your dog checked out to see if there is any thing specific they should not be doing is an excellent idea. I know the 'down' she is referring to and it does look cool but I would never teach my dogs to do it. I don't think slamming themselves to the ground like that can be good on any dog. I doubt if you will ever see a dog who does this naturally.

 

[brody_smom]

I think the difference between people doing extreme sports themselves and teaching their dogs to do it is the issue of free will and ignorance. People know full well the risks of the activities they are choosing to participate in. Often, they have to sign waivers so the company providing various activities/equipment won't be sued in case of injury. Our dogs don't have these benefits. They trust us to use our better judgement and refrain from putting them in a risky situation. The point Emily Larlham is making is, WHY are we training certain tricks/behaviors? Because our dog finds it fun, or because we want to show off the extremes to which our dogs can be pushed/lured? Think of circus animals and the ridiculous things they were made to do all for the glory of the trainers. (On a side note, I was reading an article yesterday about a hockey player who died from an accidental overdose of painkillers mixed with alcohol. He was not an overly skilled player, but one of those guys who bashes around and fights a lot. He was 6'7", 250 lbs. 28 years old. Anyway. he had had several injuries and concussions over his career and was prescribed painkillers. He became addicted, and was put in rehab. He died very shortly after coming home from rehab. His family are now suing the league for his wrongful death. Who was at fault here?) Don't want to offend anyone who puts their dog in different sports and the like. We all want what's best for our beloved pets. But knowledge is power, and, just like many professional trainers who formerly used aversive methods but have changed to PR, we need to be able to recognize when we have been doing something wrong in ignorance and stop doing it.

 

[Mutt]

I agree with her.
Backflips and such are a no go here. I also don't do a handstand as Mazzel is quite heavy (not fat just has a powerful built).
Boef has HD (hip dysplasia) so jumping/sit pretty/quick turns/agility/on a balance ball is also a no go for her. This doesn't bother us at all she as still knows a lot of tricks and enjoys working with me I also don't manipulate my dogs physically, espacially not with Boef.

Vaults i think should be possible (as long as it is not a back flip), but should be thaught with care and shouldn't be done on concrete and such. The running she mentions I find a bit overprotective. The slamming down I only would do on grass (soft surfaces).

As for GSD's the biggest issue is their sloppy backs and the fact they have a very angulated hind. So I would definetely check this out. Though such dogs still can have A-hips, but personally I wouldn't choose such dogs for breeding. It's hard to judge from the pics you posted of your dog as he isn't standing right/clearly (so I can't judge her back/angulation). But it is always good to let a vet (orthopedist) check it out. Dangerous for GSD's I guess are tricks that are dangerous for every other dog and I would't do handstand with them.

Heer it is very, very strongly adviced to only do frisbee after you learned it properly from a trainer and I agree with that, agility I think you can do at home.

Every sport has its riscs (just like human sports) that is why the following things are important:
- knowing what you are doing/accompaniment (is this the right english word?)
- warming up/coolingdown
- body awareness dog
- minimalising riscs (not too high/no jumpng on concrete).

 

[Mutt]

I think the difference between people doing extreme sports themselves and teaching their dogs to do it is the issue of free will and ignorance. People know full well the risks of the activities they are choosing to participate in. Often, they have to sign waivers so the company providing various activities/equipment won't be sued in case of injury. Our dogs don't have these benefits. They trust us to use our better judgement and refrain from putting them in a risky situation. The point Emily Larlham is making is, WHY are we training certain tricks/behaviors? Because our dog finds it fun, or because we want to show off the extremes to which our dogs can be pushed/lured? Think of circus animals and the ridiculous things they were made to do all for the glory of the trainers. (On a side note, I was reading an article yesterday about a hockey player who died from an accidental overdose of painkillers mixed with alcohol. He was not an overly skilled player, but one of those guys who bashes around and fights a lot. He was 6'7", 250 lbs. 28 years old. Anyway. he had had several injuries and concussions over his career and was prescribed painkillers. He became addicted, and was put in rehab. He died very shortly after coming home from rehab. His family are now suing the league for his wrongful death. Who was at fault here?) Don't want to offend anyone who puts their dog in different sports and the like. We all want what's best for our beloved pets. But knowledge is power, and, just like many professional trainers who formerly used aversive methods but have changed to PR, we need to be able to recognize when we have been doing something wrong in ignorance and stop doing it.

 

[brody_smom]

Every sport has its riscs (just like human sports) that is why the following things are important:
- knowing what you are doing/accompaniment (is this the right english word?)
- warming up/coolingdown
- body awareness dog
- minimalising riscs (not too high/no jumpng on concrete).

Not quite sure what you are trying to say with "accompaniment", so I don't know if it is the correct English word. Could you explain a little? Accompaniment would mean "go along with", like a piano with violin, or ice cream and apple pie.

 

[648117]

Holly is physically fine and she is a mix of three breeds but there are still things that I wont teach her. She is also a small dog so the risk of injury should be smaller (ie, there should be less impact on her joints then a larger dog would experience).

For example, I think she could learn to do a handstand but I don't want to teach her to as it does not look like it would be good for her back. She has no back issues and doesn't have a long back or anything but I think handstands are just a too un-natural movement (although Holly is probably a better candidate to learn this trick as she is front heavy, has very muscular shoulders, is small and is not overweight at all).
Holly is also just too small to learn some tricks that I think I would be very careful about teaching.

I also try to minimize risks with tricks and agility etc.

For example, Holly knows "bounce" which is when she jumps straight up into the air. I try to avoid getting her to do this on concrete and only ask her to do it a couple of times as she tends to land on her back feet and I don't want her to damage them.
At agility Holly had no bars on her jumps until she was about a year old (a bigger dog might be able to have one bar, but Holly just had the floor-height bar that holds the jump together to jump over) and then one bar until she was about 17 and 1/2 months old, now she has two bars (that's full height for Holly). A bigger dog might have a slower progression of jump heights but Holly is in the lowest height category so there is only one bar between full height and nothing .
I also avoid doing agility on concrete, the only time she does agility on concrete is if mats are put under the jumps and she is only jumping one bar a couple of times, so not full height (we sometimes do this at obedience).
At obedience class we have also started getting the dogs to do some stretches before class starts and I'm going to start doing this at agility too.

Something else I do to protect Holly is she wears a harness and seatbelt in the car and I always lift her in and out of the car (especially out) because I don't want her jumping that far down onto concrete (I'm scared it will damage her back), I especially worry that she might land half in the gutter or something and damage herself.

Also, next time she goes to the vets (probably at the end of the year when she's due for vaccinations) I'm going to ask the vet if I should start giving her some joint suppliments now to protect her joints, or wait till she's older.

 

[Mutt]

Not quite sure what you are trying to say with "accompaniment", so I don't know if it is the correct English word. Could you explain a little? Accompaniment would mean "go along with", like a piano with violin, or ice cream and apple pie.

LOL nope not that, I knew it wasn't the right word, but now I know which word I was searching for: supervision

 

[brody_smom]

LOL nope not that, I knew it wasn't the right word, but now I know which word I was searching for: supervision

You were pretty close!

 

[Husky heaven]

The English kennel club has banned lots of moves they consider dangerous or demeaning for the dog from Heel work to music competions. Since I have a bad back not needing to teach Grace to balance on my feet is great and as she can't walk on her hind legs knowing it carries a time limit of 10 seconds it doesn't matter so much. Hand stands are of course off limits - which I wouldn't want to teach my dog any way as it is way too dangerous exept for the tiny dogs that I have seen who do it while peeing!

 

[MaryK]

I agree, I wouldn't teach Ra Kismet tricks which have the potential to injury him. With my late dog Tiger Lily, she was vet checked before starting on Agility particular the A frame, and past with flying colors. I also do warm ups with Ra Kismet before tricking, and afterwards attempt to do 'cool downs' though LOL he just wants to go play soccer.

We have a long concrete driveway, so I don't let him run up and down that, a walk yes when it's wet under foot, but not trick training or running, though he does at times run on the driveway - if the soccer balls gone that way - but having danced myself, I know just how damaging it can be to work on concrete and I sure wouldn't want to put my boy through that kind of pain.