Close Minded People (bit Of A Rant)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic & Chit Chat' started by rouen, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. rouen Experienced Member

    A couple nights ago I was at work and a woman came in with a malinois. When she initially approached me for assistance the Mal was wiggly and wanted to greet, when he got about half way to me the woman jerked him so hard backward that he spun around. :eek: She had the lead clipped to both a flat buckle and a prong. That was the first thing I noticed, my initial impression was she knew nothing of her tools, otherwise she'd know prongs should not be used with any other collar.
    She then went on to say he was a PPD but only 1.5 years old so he wasn't as focused yet. We spoke for about 15 minutes about products and the Mal, all the while he was leaning on me enjoying his butt scratches. She said she wanted him to keep his friendly disposition but wished he'd stay focused. All I could think is if she keeps jerking him like that every time he tries to greet he's not going to want to be friendly. She also said something to the affect that Mals make bad pets, you can't yell at them like you can yell at a BC. All I could think is I'd rather see a Mal in a typical household than a BC, the Mal would probably adjust better to lower exercise/stimuli than the BC ever would. Images of Kikopups video of the pair of Mals working without intimidation or corrections and not needing to be yelled at, and Tab289 and Solea(not a Mal, I know) played over in my head as this lady tried to justify her need for force.
    :eek::confused::(:cautious: I'm quite sure I made all of those faces during our conversation. And being at work I didn't want to get into an argument with a customer.
    I would love to see someone train and compete in Personal Protection using progressive reinforcement. I think this is one area of training that hasn't really been focused on by the +R camp. :oops: Rant over.
    bekah1001 and Dlilly like this.

  2. Adrianna & Calvin Experienced Member

    There is a famous Schutzhund competitor who uses predominantly R+. She has never claimed to never use aversives, but she is a very well respected trainer and competitor and has made an impact on how many people see the sport. She doesn't use chokes or e-collars AFAIK. Her name is Shade, the dog is Reiki:

    Dogster and southerngirl like this.
  3. jackienmutts Honored Member

    Really impressive video!! I also would have hated seeing something like that, I'm sure it took all you had to not just rip her to shreds!! :eek::confused: I attended a Steve and Jen White seminar a couple years ago, he was a prior K9 handler, and now is a renowned behaviorsit/trainer/speaker at Pet Expo, etc ... His seminars are FABULOUS, and he's now training and encouraging police K9s be trained using + R. Go Steve !!! , and
    Dogster likes this.
  4. rouen Experienced Member

    I would think having a +R trained dog would be more reliable. The dogs are already so driven for toys, removing corrections wouldn't be too hard.
    Adrianna & Calvin, it would have more impact on the PPD community if she would advocate the use of +R. Leading by example is a start but you have to teach too. Not to say her dog isn't good, because he is.
  5. Adrianna & Calvin Experienced Member

    Hmm I thought she was an instructor. I remember seeing her somewhere as a featured guest trainer at XYZ club. I know of another person starting her pitty as a PPD, who uses only reward-based methods, and she worked with Shade and learned quite a bit from her. Within the community, Shade has gone from an oddity (perhaps even an object of ridicule) to a well-respected national competitor. Shade wrote somewhere that she was solidly shouted at online when she was starting out years ago and asked if everyone had to use e-collars. and she says now people have at least heard of people using other methods. Shade and Reiki are often cited as *the* example of a reward-based PPD team in arguments that are anti-compulsion. I'm sure there are other teams, like my friend, but they are the only national champs that I know of.
    rouen likes this.

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