As some of you may know, I work at an outdoors/hunting supply store, which of course is regularly flooded with hunters set on training their dogs with ecollars. Well, I recently met a couple there who I have been helping with archery and bowhunting. Yesterday, they were talking to each other about their dog, a 9 month old English Setter who evidentally needs some work on manners. So, naturally, I brought up that I train. Deuce, as he is called, spent several months with a trainer learning to point and flush, as well as some basic obedience, all with an e-collar. The wife says he's been a terror since he returned from the trainer, and the husband says he just wants to perfect his commands, learn some manners, and get off the ecollar. They both were heavily opposed to using the ecollar, but, finding a positive bird dog trainer was literally impossible in this area. So, I explained to them that I was trying to learn about training for bird and tracking, but that I was far from being ready to train a dog for that purpose. I made it clear that I knew very, very little in that area and that I was not going to lead them to believe I could teach their dog to do anything like that. The husband was completely okay with this, and said that Deuce did very well with all of it, and that I could consider Deuce my "test dog"--whatever I want to teach him, whatever I want to try with him, I am completely free and welcome to do it. WOW! As you can imagine I was stoked. He proceded to tell me that I could use Deuce as a learning experience, and that if I could get Deuce to work successfully without the ecollar then he would be thrilled. Their main issue is the jumping, and chewing things. But they want to advance his training, without the use of an ecollar. He says the only time he usually has to shock him, at a low level, is when he doesn't come. He says his come is very good, and it's just occassionally that he "disobeys." I am confident I can advance his basic commands to whatever level they desire, and from there I will just have to see what else they want him to learn. The jumping and chewing will be easy to solve, and the two of them seem dedicated to putting in the time and effort necessary to make Deuce a well-behaved dog and successful hunting partner. As if it wasn't enough that they were putting their full trust and faith in me with their dog, the husband then told me that his aunt breeds and trains Giant Schnauzers for bomb sniffing, narcotics searches, SAR, and....BLOOD TRAILING! Whoo!!! And that if I would like to, he would introduce me to her and she'd probably be happy to answer any questions I might have. YAY! I start working with Deuce today---I have this weird feeling that he's going to be a handful, lol. :doghappy: Wish me luck!